Shootings in Paris - MOD NOTE UPDATED - READ OP

Rubber_Soul · 14-11-2015 10:36PM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Technically we don't have Freedom of speech in Ireland. For one we have archaic blasphemy laws.

True, but irrelevant.

My name is URL · 14-11-2015 10:37PM

ghostdancer wrote: »

the link above shows that they are indeed rare. 27 in 5 months, the overwhelming majority in Middle Eastern and north African conflict areas.

Kinda goes against the mantra that their main goal is to wipe out non-muslims, when the vast majority of their victims are muslim

Orangebrigade wrote: »

I was hoping Hollande would resign after overseeing two huge terrorist incidents in one year.

Classy. You do realise that you are in effect blaming the French people and nation for what happened?

conorhal · 14-11-2015 10:37PM

cloudatlas wrote: »

Isis has a lot of foreign fighters who traveled to Syria to fight. Isis are up against it now with the air strikes from Syrian army and Russia etc., so that is why this is happening now. It is highly unlikely that they are sending Isis members on refugee boats, much more likely that they are contacting members who traveled from EU to fight in Syria and subsequently returned to Europe.

Any EU national, and we have a couple of dozen, those traveling to fight for IS should be blatantly told that they will be charged with treason and handed down an automatic life sentence on return. But it seems that the facts indicate a plot involving Syrian 'refugees' since it's now a fact that two of the terrorist have so far been identified as Syrian nationals that arrived in Europe via Greece.

darkpagandeath · 14-11-2015 10:39PM

My name is URL wrote: »

Kinda goes against the mantra that their main goal is to wipe out non-muslims, when the vast majority of their victims are muslim

Classy. You do realise that you are in effect blaming the French people and nation for what happened?

No they want to wipe out anyone who is not their version of Islamic ideology. And especially people from the west.

And on the second point did people not do that after the charlie hebdo cartoon attack.

namloc1980 · 14-11-2015 10:39PM

ghostdancer wrote: »

the link above shows that they are indeed rare. 27 in 5 months, the overwhelming majority in Middle Eastern and north African conflict areas.
numerous attacks don't happen on a daily basis whatsoever, let alone throughout the rest of the world where tens, if not hundreds of millions of Muslims live.

27 in 5 months......You're having a laugh! And I just love the way you conveniently ignore the Islamist inspired wars in Iraq and Syria. Fair play. You'll find it's a tad more than you believe.

Linky

XR3i · 14-11-2015 10:44PM

this thread should be closed from 9pm til 7am,

obviously a few posters have a few lagers in them now

ghostdancer · 14-11-2015 10:45PM

namloc1980 wrote: »

27 in 5 months......You're having a laugh! And I just love the way you conveniently ignore the Islamist inspired wars in Iraq and Syria. Fair play. You'll find it's a tad more than you believe.

Linky

that is a list of general terrorist incidents, plenty non-Islamic terror incidents.

here's the relevant link:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Islamist_terrorist_attacks

as you can see, attacks in Europe, North and South America, and most of the rest of the world outside the Middle East and North Africa are incredibly rare.

in fact, you'd think there'd be way more attacks, especially in Muslim areas.

it's almost as if it's a tiny, tiny, tiny minority who are violent extremists :rolleyes:

Royal Legend · 14-11-2015 10:48PM

Orangebrigade wrote: »

I was hoping Hollande would resign after overseeing two huge terrorist incidents in one year.

How is he overseeing them?

This is guerrilla warfare at a different level. Closest analogy to this would have been Russian sleeper agents in the US and Europe during the cold war.

No way of knowing who these people are, it is already known that other nationalities are crossing borders pretending to be Syrian refugees, although not all have ulterior motives.

This will happen again and seeing how lax we are in regards to who enters this country, it could happen here.

namloc1980 · 14-11-2015 10:49PM

ghostdancer wrote: »

that is a list of general terrorist incidents, plenty non-Islamic terror incidents.

here's the relevant link:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Islamist_terrorist_attacks

as you can see, attacks in Europe, North and South America, and most of the rest of the world outside the Middle East and North Africa is incredibly rare.

Take a closer look. Overwhelming majority are Islamist. Of course it doesn't suit your agenda so I understand facts are hard to take especially when they fly in the face of your belief that these things are "incredibly rare".

Bannasidhe · 14-11-2015 10:49PM

IrishTrajan wrote: »

Remember all those months ago when we said this lackadaisical approach your side proposed to the migrant crisis would lead to ISIS fighters getting into Europe? I sure as fúck do.

IrishTrajan wrote: »

So, if some are already here, we shouldn't even bother trying to stop more of them getting here?

The first quote could certainly be read as you saying there is a direct correlation between refugees being allowed in and the atrocities in Paris - you seem to be implying that if there were no refuges this events wouldn't have happened.
I may be wrong, but that is how I read it.

I was pointing out that even if we left exactly zero refugees in it would not mean there would be no more such attacks.

I'm not advocating we turn them all away. What I am advocating is that we have stringent security checks and immediately deport those who fail to meet the criteria, none of this appeal after appeal nonsense.

Well, we are bound by the legal conventions we signed to aid refugees, so if we want to refuse to take any we will be failing to meet our legal obligations.
Stringent security checks are not something I have an issue with as long as the fact that people could have lost a great many personal documents due to their homes being bombed is taken into account.
No right to appeal at all is harsh given the Irish system is slow and often arbitrary at the best of times.
You seem to want efficiency - so do the asylum seekers languishing in Direct Provision centres but I wouldn't hold my breathe..

If landing someone on a bit of coastline isn't that hard, why are we worried about sinking boats in the Mediterranean?

If landing stuff is hard where all the drugs coming from?
It's the sheer volume of boats coming that is causing the issue in the Med. That and the thing about bodies of small children being washed up on our holiday beaches.

Yeah, because the average person has the same ability as Israeli intelligence services. :rolleyes:

Yeah and people smugglers couldn't possibly work out a way to make false documents for a large enough fee :rolleyes:

A Primal Nut · 14-11-2015 10:51PM

ghostdancer wrote: »

and what about those that aren't in Africa?

i'm not actually looking for a realistic answer here by the way, that idea is so laughably unworkable and stupid, i'm just looking to hear your entertainingly nonsense rebuttal.

It works for the Australians in Papua. They stopped the boats.

Orangebrigade · 14-11-2015 10:51PM

My name is URL wrote: »

Kinda goes against the mantra that their main goal is to wipe out non-muslims, when the vast majority of their victims are muslim

Classy. You do realise that you are in effect blaming the French people and nation for what happened?

I'm blaming the people who run France. Incompetent fools and as sad as it is they just got done yet again by those bastards ISIS. Unacceptable.

Francie Barrett · 14-11-2015 10:51PM

Uncle Ben wrote: »

Well here's the option I favour. Actually it's Cameron's. No refugees are accepted from Europe but are actually vetted in reception centres in Africa. And naval vessels tow the refugees back to Libyan ports rather than tow them into Europe. And no status is afforded to those who cannot prove their identity.

Honestly?

That's just disgraceful. If there are people in genuine need we should simply turn them away on the basis of not being able to provide documentation.

darkpagandeath · 14-11-2015 10:52PM

namloc1980 wrote: »

Take a closer look. Overwhelming majority are Islamist. Of course it doesn't suit your agenda so I understand facts are hard to take especially when they fly in the face of your belief that these things are "incredibly rare".

To be fair a lot of the time it's mental gymnastics, You know like supporting Gay rights, Feminist rights and alike and also at the same time supporting groups that would put down Gay rights and Feminist rights. It all is a bit odd.

ghostdancer · 14-11-2015 10:52PM

namloc1980 wrote: »

Take a closer look. Overwhelming majority are Islamist. Of course it doesn't suit your agenda so I understand facts are hard to take especially when they fly in the face of your belief that these things are "incredibly rare".

yes, the majority are Islamist, not all.
my link has taken out the non-Islamic ones.

as you can clearly see, it backs up my point. unless you are unable to count, in which case you may not be able to grasp that.

namloc1980 · 14-11-2015 10:53PM

ghostdancer wrote: »

that is a list of general terrorist incidents, plenty non-Islamic terror incidents.

here's the relevant link:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Islamist_terrorist_attacks

as you can see, attacks in Europe, North and South America, and most of the rest of the world outside the Middle East and North Africa are incredibly rare.

But why are you excluding these places? Doesn't it count in your head if people get killed in these places.

By the way did you know that elephants in the wild in Europe, America and the rest of the world outside Africa and India are incredibly rare. (See what I did there)

White Horse · 14-11-2015 10:53PM

Orangebrigade wrote: »

I was hoping Hollande would resign after overseeing two huge terrorist incidents in one year.

I am not Hollande's biggest fan but France has taken the fight to Islamic extremists more than any other European country.

If any European leader should resign, it is Angela Merkel.

She is the one who triggered the collapse of Europe's defences against Islamic terrorists.

A Primal Nut · 14-11-2015 10:53PM

corny wrote: »

Please don't put words in my mouth. I never suggested they were freedom fighters.

My point is the constant interventions, the subjugation of Muslims by the Jewish and Jewish supported states breeds the type of radicalism you mentioned. In short the West is just creating the breeding grounds. Disaffected, impoverished youngsters, no matter their religion, will always turn to some crazy ****.

The Saudis are rich and they have supplied a lot of terrorists, especially in Al-Qaeda.

namloc1980 · 14-11-2015 10:56PM

ghostdancer wrote: »

yes, the majority are Islamist, not all.
my link has taken out the non-Islamic ones.

as you can clearly see, it backs up my point. unless you are unable to count, in which case you may not be able to grasp that.

No it hasn't at all. There are loads of attacks on the larger list perpetrated by Islamists not in your list - 4th Nov bombing in Egypt for example and many many more besides. Look you're making yourself look silly now trying to stick to your incredibly rare position.

c_man · 14-11-2015 10:57PM

My name is URL wrote: »

Kinda goes against the mantra that their main goal is to wipe out non-muslims, when the vast majority of their victims are muslim

...You are aware of the divisions within Islam right? You know Sunni and Shia not getting along in parts? Jeez, some people just view 'them' as one homogenous block.

darkpagandeath · 14-11-2015 10:57PM

Francie Barrett wrote: »

Honestly?

That's just disgraceful. If there are people in genuine need we should simply turn them away on the basis of not being able to provide documentation.

Deliberately destroying documentation or deliberately not bringing it after getting in a boat in Turkey and arriving in Greece is not the same as fleeing a war zone. Deliberately refusing to produce documentation or answer any Questions util they get to the country of choice is not the Same as fleeting a war zone.

A Primal Nut · 14-11-2015 10:57PM

Ace2007 wrote: »

I've had enough, this thread is just going round in circles, it seems l Like folk just don't want anyone coming to our country regardless of their circumstances and will use this attack for their own points.

One attacker was born in France - he wasn't smuggled in a refugee or anything but let's not that stand in the way of an arugments.

Yes but his parents or his parent's parents most likely came to France as immigrants, so that's even worse.

ghostdancer · 14-11-2015 10:57PM

namloc1980 wrote: »

But why are you excluding these places? Doesn't it count in your head of people get killed in these places.

By the way did you know that elephants in the wild in Europe, America and the rest of the world outside Africa and India are incredibly rare. (See what I did there)

because I specifically referenced the rest of the world.
there aren't even daily occurrences of terrorist attacks in overwhelmingly Islamic countries. there are only a handful of attacks in most Islamic countries for the whole year.
and no, I don't see what you did there. I kind of see what you were attempting, but it doesn't really work.

Orangebrigade · 14-11-2015 10:58PM

White Horse wrote: »

I am not Hollande's biggest fan but France has taken the fight to Islamic extremists more than any other European country.

If any European leader should resign, it is Angela Merkel.

She is the one who triggered the collapse of Europe's defences against Islamic terrorists.

They should all go, useless idiots. Merkel is a disgrace. Hollande overseeing Charlie Hebdo and last night is just not good enough and it is failing to defend his citizens. Rule number 1 of any leader.

GT_TDI_150 · 14-11-2015 10:59PM

ok, I think I bowed out last night at about 130pages ... so I'm not going to claim I've read the last 100pages

out of all the news updates I've seen read since last contributing ... I think france in this awful time is blessed ... blessed that a security person at the Stade de France was clued in enough to realise there was something not quite right with the man trying to get into the game last night (with a valid match ticket) 15mins after kick off. and refused the man entry. The man stepped back and detonated his device ...his 2 accomplices did the same at near by loactions (MaccyD's and another entrance to the stadium).

be under no illusion ...if this person wasnt stopped and had been able to detonate inside the stadium, the death toll would have been enormous as it probably would have meant the second attacker with a ticket would not have set of his/her device out side but inside the ground too ... the direct casualties would probably have been 100-200 depending on where in a section the seats wwould have been ...but the stampede and event like this would cause ....doesnt bare thinking about

Royal Legend · 14-11-2015 11:02PM

Has anyone here been to St Denis in the Paris Suburbs? It is fairly run down, full of immigrants and 2nd gen immigrants, next to no white people, out and out breeding ground for potential ISIS.

The immigration problem is already in places like St Denis in Paris, London, Germany and many other countries, it should not be allowed to happen here, as it a catalyst for this type of event.

I am sure that certain people will use last night to argue the Syrian refugee crisis, but that is not the cause of last night, even if half of them came to France that way, the issue was already in Paris long long ago.

GT_TDI_150 · 14-11-2015 11:02PM

Also being Belgian ... I worry...

both attacks on Paris have had some origins in Belgium, sleeper cells have been found in Belgium (meaning there are plenty more left uncovered), on both occasions ISIS have singled out Belgium as a legitimate target on which preparations are at an advanced stage ...

BorneTobyWilde · 14-11-2015 11:02PM

Even after ISIS go and kill these innocent people, the heads of state, of many countries come out with well words and drafted statements as to not cause offense to anyone.
Heaven forbid they should upset the people responsible .

kupus · 14-11-2015 11:05PM

how do you deal with a group of people who kill because they hate everything about you.

THey hate gays.....but of couse you never hear the left say anything much about that. BUt you'll hear about a restaurant in dublin that wouldnt serve a couple.

They hate women, but you never hear the feminists call them out. But by god you hear about how male footballers are paid more than their female counterparts.

They hate everything a free and liberal society adores. Yet they are the ones using it to their advantage in shutting down speech. THe left are just plain crazy. They think everybody is equal...

Heres a bit of a shocker to some of you folk there behind your keyboards....
We are not equal. I wish it were true that everybody gets a fair chance. it would make life an awful lot easier.
But its not.

And no amount of beating chests and empty rhetoric will ever change that.

So how do you talk to them.

How do you talk to people that have studied the koran for their whole lives and are so completely brainwashed by it that they will commit suicide to take an unbeliever with them.

bb12 · 14-11-2015 11:07PM

ghostdancer wrote: »

that is a list of general terrorist incidents, plenty non-Islamic terror incidents.

here's the relevant link:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Islamist_terrorist_attacks

as you can see, attacks in Europe, North and South America, and most of the rest of the world outside the Middle East and North Africa are incredibly rare.

in fact, you'd think there'd be way more attacks, especially in Muslim areas.

it's almost as if it's a tiny, tiny, tiny minority who are violent extremists :rolleyes:

eh the title of the link is List of Islamist terrorist attacks

Shootings in Paris - MOD NOTE UPDATED - READ OP

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