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Shootings in Paris - MOD NOTE UPDATED - READ OP

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Comments

  • #3002
    Walter Bishop
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 557 ✭✭✭Walter Bishop


    I'm sure they'd be rushing to the beacon of religious inclusiveness that is Northern Ireland :rolleyes:


  • #3003
    Custardpi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,807 ✭✭✭Custardpi


    Very Bored wrote: »

    A lot of people seem to feel that refusing to hate all Muslims is the same as agreeing with radical Islam. Far from it, if anything I hate radical Islam more than many because I work with and know very decent Muslim people who regularly tell me that these extremists have nothing to do with Islam. Call me naive, but knowing them well as I do I believe them and I see what this does to them.

    I'm sure it has nothing to do with their version of Islam. I've studied, worked & lived with Muslims myself & the vast majority of them have been grand. To deny that the ideology of ISIS has nothing whatsoever to do with Islam is delusional however. If you haven't already (I know it's been massively shared on the internet since its publication) have a read of the following article from The Atlantic, the result of actually talking to supporters of the Islamic State & examining their beliefs & motivations. It is clear that religious concerns are their primary driving force. Given that the vast majority of their victims are other Muslims those in that community who ignore this or downplay it do their innocent coreligionists no favours whatsoever.


  • #3004
    Smiles35
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,749 ✭✭✭Smiles35


    lawlolawl wrote: »
    It's normal to discuss the reason why/how these things are happening when they happen.

    As it is normal to discuss how to prevent it happening in future.

    Mafia type groups are making coin shipping up refuges.


  • #3005
    Wurzelbert
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,804 ✭✭✭Wurzelbert


    Custardpi wrote: »
    If it is confirmed that at least some of the attackers were refugees then there are a few European leaders whose political future will be very much in doubt, Merkel in first place. That may be unfair, given the impossibility (both moral & practical) of doing nothing in the face of the ME/Maghreb crisis but I doubt a traumatised electorate will see it that way.

    yes probably, and rightly so…but does it really make a difference whether they were recent additions to the european muslim community, as refugees or whatever, or whether they lived there for a while or were even born there? i think the issue, beyond the killings per se, is that they were islamists, i.e. followers of a supra-national religious ideology that is trying to destroy the western world…


  • #3006
    Junkyard Tom
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,115 ✭✭✭✭Junkyard Tom


    Irish Praetorian wrote: »
    And when they have all fled and ISIS moves onto a new population to plunder and terrorize, say Turkey, do we take all them as well?

    No we support the Turkish state instead of help destroy it.


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  • #3007
    BoJack Horseman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,247 ✭✭✭✭BoJack Horseman


    RobertKK wrote: »
    it would suggest ISIS have used the refugee/migrant situation to get their people into the EU, and it potentially could be a lot of people.

    Just as they promised they would.


  • #3008
    Orangebrigade
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 280 ✭✭Orangebrigade


    Junkyard Tom wrote: »
    The refugees are fleeing to get away from these types of scum.
    lol while they walk/sit next to them on the travel.


  • #3009
    Very Bored
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,467 ✭✭✭Very Bored


    Uncle Ben wrote: »
    The fact that at least one of the refugees were involved is possibly a reason. Coming on top of Spanish security stating that they know of a further 800 terrorists taking the refugee route makes the whole refugee discussion justified.

    Not at this moment in time its not. Have the decency to allow people to mourn.


  • #3010
    Galwayguy35
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,458 ✭✭✭✭Galwayguy35


    Very Bored wrote: »
    Its sick how so many on here are hijacking the tragedy that has befallen so many French families over the last twenty-four hours to turn these events into an opportunity to attack the issue of refugees. Says a lot about the morality of a lot when they are prepared to manipulate the grief of so many. Its not just Islamic fundamentalism I worry about, but also the way the whole world has lot a lot of its moral fibre.

    One of them got in as a "refugee" and went on to slaughter innocent people enjoying a night out and you think posters shouldn't highlight this fact?

    Truth is we have no idea how many have entered Europe by now.


  • #3011
    Isaiah
    Closed Accounts Posts: 300 ✭✭Isaiah


    Junkyard Tom wrote: »
    The refugees are fleeing to get away from these types of scum.
    They had escaped these scum by arriving in Turkey. Going any further was opportunism.


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  • #3012
    Uncle Ben
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,843 ✭✭✭Uncle Ben


    Billy86 wrote: »
    Nope, just ISIS. If I living in Poland, I would be more concerned about having just become more of a potential target than I was 24 hours ago.

    I haven't seen any attacks in Hungary or any of those other countries that threw up security fencing or told them point blank they weren't welcome.


  • #3013
    _Kaiser_
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 29,456 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    Nodin wrote: »
    ....but many of these groups are racist, sectarian and xenophobic and any coincidence between what they predicted and what happened is a case of the broken clock rather than any insight.

    You're committed to your argument, I'll give you that.

    Try telling this to the families of those who died last night and who are still waiting to see if their relatives and friends who were wounded will pull through.

    ISIS themselves predicted this would happen.. that they would smuggle their fighters in with the "refugees" - and last night they made good on their threat.


  • #3014
    MS1962
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24 ✭MS1962


    Custardpi wrote: »
    I'm sure it has nothing to do with their version of Islam. I've studied, worked & lived with Muslims myself & the vast majority of them have been grand. To deny that the ideology of ISIS has nothing whatsoever to do with Islam is delusional however. If you haven't already (I know it's been massively shared on the internet since its publication) have a read of The Atlantic, the result of actually talking to supporters of the Islamic State & examining their beliefs & motivations. It is clear that religious concerns are their primary driving force. Given that the vast majority of their victims are other Muslims those in that community who ignore this or downplay it do their innocent coreligionists no favours whatsoever.

    They ignore the reality of how Islam started and the type of man their founder was. The IS types are being true to their 'prophet'.


  • #3015
    the evasion_kid
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,740 ✭✭✭the evasion_kid


    Merkel deserves a serious slap across the tits over this..


  • #3016
    Very Bored
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,467 ✭✭✭Very Bored


    Custardpi wrote: »
    I'm sure it has nothing to do with their version of Islam. I've studied, worked & lived with Muslims myself & the vast majority of them have been grand. To deny that the ideology of ISIS has nothing whatsoever to do with Islam is delusional however. If you haven't already (I know it's been massively shared on the internet since its publication) have a read of the following article from The Atlantic, the result of actually talking to supporters of the Islamic State & examining their beliefs & motivations. It is clear that religious concerns are their primary driving force. Given that the vast majority of their victims are other Muslims those in that community who ignore this or downplay it do their innocent coreligionists no favours whatsoever.

    An Islamic doctrine is strongly linked obviously, but I think the point they were making is if you are prepared to murder and commit various acts of cruelty then you are not a Muslim.


  • #3017
    Facekicking 2 The Future
    Closed Accounts Posts: 40 ✭Facekicking 2 The Future


    Ironic that for all their "solidarity" there aren't hundred of pictures online of Muslim countries hosting rallies against ISIS and burning ISIS flags and flying French colors. Would be great if some of the leaders, both political and spiritual, from the Arab Muslim world got on television and expressed their condolences and called for an end to this and laid out how these "imposters posing as Muslims" are bringing shame and ridicule on the religion of Islam. Then went out and did something about it. Well I need to stop dreaming and get back to work.

    Why do we have to fight the "extremists"?


  • #3018
    namloc1980
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,613 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    My name is URL wrote: »
    So, let's have it then. How do we prevent it from happening in future?

    Ban Islam and deport all muslims... kill them in case they one day become radicalized?

    People are big on rhetoric and short on actual, workable ideas when it comes to that discussion.

    Not opening the doors and having no idea who we are letting in might help. These refugees were safe in Turkey. The minute they decided they wanted to come to Germany or Sweden they became migrants. Europe already has established processes for migrants to enter Europe legitimately. But instead we through that away and have been letting everyone and anyone in. 200,000 in October alone! Are you comfortable with that? We have no idea who these people are or what their intentions are.


  • #3019
    thedumbone
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 102 ✭✭thedumbone


    Pocoyo wrote: »
    ''I 'm a Muslim.
    Islam is perfect.
    But i m not.
    If i make a mistake,
    Blame me.
    Not my Religion!''

    Popular anti terror attack tweet from the muslim community trending on twitter... this doesnt exactly reassure me.

    this so much, can't they come up with some new ideas?

    F420W7X.png


  • #3020
    Billy86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    granturismo wrote: »
    How many people added the Iraqi flag to their facebook profile pic four months ago when 'a car bomb claimed by the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIL) group has exploded in a busy market in an Iraqi town, killing at least 115 adults and children. '

    http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/07/car-bomb-kills-dozens-iraqi-capital-150717191744020.html

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mass_car_bombings

    The time to take major military action in Iraq and Syria is long overdue. One Iraqi victim is as important as a European victim.
    I do generally agree with where you are coming from, but military interventions down the years are also a huge part of the problem. How exactly to deal with the issue of what happens once ISIS are hypothetically eradicated is the really, really difficult question, and it only gets harder every time the west gets involved and makes mistakes. It's a ridiculously tricky issue, possibly the most in the history of humanity.


  • #3021
    walshyn93
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,685 ✭✭✭walshyn93


    Junkyard Tom wrote: »
    The refugees are fleeing to get away from these types of scum.

    Bollocks. Some are fleeing ISIS. Some support ISIS and are fleeing Assad. Others are fleeing Nusra and still others are fleeing one of the other rebel groups. To say that all refugees are fleeing because they love peace is absurd. Many are soldiers that lost their nerve in a gunfight and ran for the border. That doesn't mean they're now harmless.


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  • #3022
    lawlolawl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,678 ✭✭✭lawlolawl


    the evasion_kid wrote: »
    Merkel deserves a serious slap across the tits over this..

    Germany has this weird situation where they can't be seen to do anything racism or xenophobic based on obvious parallels with their past.

    Say that they suggested set up vetting-centres or somesuch for incoming refugees to be held to check up on their backgrounds before they admitted them into the EU.

    There would be uproar.


  • #3023
    MS1962
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24 ✭MS1962


    Very Bored wrote: »
    An Islamic doctrine is strongly linked obviously, but I think the point they were making is if you are prepared to murder and commit various acts of cruelty then you are not a Muslim.

    That's crazy - Muhamoud did precisely that!!!


  • #3024
    nxbyveromdwjpg
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,402 ✭✭✭nxbyveromdwjpg


    That one guy having a random refugee passport on him seems very convenient indeed


  • #3025
    Custardpi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,807 ✭✭✭Custardpi


    Very Bored wrote: »
    An Islamic doctrine is strongly linked obviously, but I think the point they were making is if you are prepared to murder and commit various acts of cruelty then you are not a Muslim.

    Whereas ISIS would argue that your friends' willingness to live peacefully alongside "Kuffar" means that they are not true Muslims. Who's theologically (as opposed to morally) in the right here?


  • #3026
    namloc1980
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,613 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    Carlee Tart Wedding wrote: »
    That one guy having a random refugee passport on him seems very convenient indeed

    Best get the tinfoil hat on then.


  • #3027
    Fleawuss
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,681 ✭✭✭Fleawuss


    Carlee Tart Wedding wrote: »
    That one guy having a random refugee passport on him seems very convenient indeed

    Maybe so. Or possibly even more inconvenient. Time will tell.


  • #3028
    Orangebrigade
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 280 ✭✭Orangebrigade


    MS1962 wrote: »
    That's crazy - Muhamoud did precisely that!!!
    The Islam means peace thing is a big giant load of bollocks. The founder was a complete moron and did exactly what you say.


  • #3029
    moc moc a moc
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,298 ✭✭✭moc moc a moc


    Very Bored wrote: »
    Not at this moment in time its not. Have the decency to allow people to mourn.

    There are no French people mourning on Boards.ie After Hours for jaysus' sake, they're with their families. Would you ever stop with the maudlin rhetoric and let people discuss this important topic.


  • #3030
    walshyn93
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,685 ✭✭✭walshyn93


    Nodin wrote: »
    ....but many of these groups are racist, sectarian and xenophobic and any coincidence between what they predicted and what happened is a case of the broken clock rather than any insight.

    Coincidence. Just a coincidence he says. Nothing to see here.


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  • #3031
    Lights On
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,752 ✭✭✭Lights On


    Carlee Tart Wedding wrote: »
    That one guy having a random refugee passport on him seems very convenient indeed

    It was the suicide bomber who they found it on wasn't it? Passports must be made of pretty strong paper in that case..


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