Random Running Questions

davedanon · 01-11-2015 12:05PM

Putting the arms out and using them for balance more than forward propulsion helps too.

RayCun · 01-11-2015 05:55PM

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

Take small, quick steps rather than long ones.

Are you talking about running downhill over rough terrain?
I would lengthen my stride on a downhill

TFBubendorfer · 01-11-2015 06:33PM

RayCun wrote: »

Are you talking about running downhill over rough terrain?
I would lengthen my stride on a downhill

No I'm talking road running. Imagine spinning your legs like the road runner (NOT TRR

). Due to the higher pace your stride length increases anyway

davedanon · 01-11-2015 06:37PM

Just my own practice, not trying to get in the way of expert advice, but I lengthen my stride going downhill as well. Certainly if I'm racing.

TFBubendorfer · 01-11-2015 06:43PM

davedanon wrote: »

Just my own practice, not trying to get in the way of expert advice, but I lengthen my stride going downhill as well. Certainly if I'm racing.

More than one way to do it of course, though I was think more of a training run rather than a race. I find taking longer strides on a downhill leads to a heavy load when you land and therefore prefer taking small, quick steps.

RayCun · 01-11-2015 06:44PM

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

No I'm talking road running. Imagine spinning your legs like the road runner (NOT TRR ). Due to the higher pace your stride length increases anyway

you want a high cadence all the time, uphill or downhill
but on an uphill, high cadence short strides and on downhill, high cadence long strides
if you imagine your foot is travelling in a circle, and when you're running on the flat that circle touches the ground directly underneath you. Running uphill, the same sized circle would touch the ground in front of you, because the road is rising to meet you. To touch the ground underneath you in the same place, you have to draw a smaller circle - take a shorter stride. Conversely, on a downhill you have to take a longer stride

RayCun · 01-11-2015 06:45PM

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

I find taking longer strides on a downhill leads to a heavy load when you land

Oh it does. But you also go faster

davedanon · 01-11-2015 07:05PM

RayCun wrote: »

Oh it does. But you also go faster

Saw you training with the si....brothers on Saturday after the parkrun, Ray. You seemed to be moving well. Things improving on the injury front?

RayCun · 01-11-2015 07:32PM

managed to finish the whole run anyway :pac:

Notwork Error · 01-11-2015 07:42PM

I was always taught that adding a more vertical stride was best on the downhill when I was younger, a slight up and down motion to lengthen the stride and take the load off of the quads and braking when descending.

Don't know if that's the best way to do it but I've always noticed how much stronger I am on the downhills than the people around me. Now, if I could sort out the uphills, flat and turns, I'd be laughing.

TFBubendorfer · 01-11-2015 08:21PM

Let me tell you where I'm coming from. The biggest mistake you can make running downhill is to lean back. That adds a breaking effect to every single step as well as tires out the quads rapidly, yet I see it all the time.

Instead try to lean forward, and I find imagining yourself to be perpendicular to the road to be a very effective trick. If you do that, a fast cadence follows more or less automatically. Incidentally, I also find I tend to gain on runners around me on most downhill.

RayCun · 01-11-2015 08:49PM

I agree, don't lean back, maintain the same angle to the road. But I think as well as doing that, you can lift your knees high and take longer strides.

Notwork Error · 01-11-2015 10:40PM

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

Let me tell you where I'm coming from. The biggest mistake you can make running downhill is to lean back. That adds a breaking effect to every single step as well as tires out the quads rapidly, yet I see it all the time.

Instead try to lean forward, and I find imagining yourself to be perpendicular to the road to be a very effective trick. If you do that, a fast cadence follows more or less automatically. Incidentally, I also find I tend to gain on runners around me on most downhill.

Yeah, wasn't disagreeing with you. Was just saying that I was always told to get some bounce in my stride as well and not stay too flat on the downhill.

martyboy48 · 02-11-2015 02:19AM

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

Let me tell you where I'm coming from. 1The biggest mistake you can make running downhill is to lean back. That adds a breaking effect to every single step as well as tires out the quads rapidly, yet I see it all the time.

Instead 2try to lean forward, and I find imagining yourself to be perpendicular to the road to be a very effective..

Not directed at you personally TFBubendorfer, but a couple of points within...
And the points are probably tied in together, let me know your views.....
On the downhills(the good downhills),I can't seem to run fast. I'm always holding back(brakes on) to the point where my two hands are outstretched like ailerons on an aercraft

I'm not really slowing down, but the legs are turning over at an in controllable rate now

This has been the way from the get go, and and a recent visit to physio it came up. Boiling down to lack of flexibility and motion which I already knew I had.

So, is it more a physical thing( lack of flexibility), or, lack of confidence(just f*cking go with it)

Raycuns post, about lifting knees and longer striders, would have me in a ball on the ground

( utmost respect for ray)

DubOnHoliday · 02-11-2015 09:56AM

Can't agree with lifiting the knees high as it just means more impact when coming down with the foot, by all means longer strides on downhill but my feet never pass much higher than my angles unless the terrain is mental. Have to agree with the leaning forward bit, although it takes time and plenty of practice to get over the fear of falling on your face.

km991148 · 02-11-2015 12:10PM

Just recently started running, and see a lot about stretching..

I get the whole dynamic stretches before, static after cool down, but wondered should I be doing more when not running -

For example - I generally feel old and stiff most of the time

- would love to try yoga to try and get more supple - but can anyone recommend an in-between stretching to supple up a bit at home etc?

gucci · 02-11-2015 12:27PM

Something like a combination of foam rolling and stretching may be a good option for you? I have a bit of a routine now where I try to get a bit in every morning and I find it is really helping me.
Lots of youtube videos to show good routines to target different areas.

Neera · 02-11-2015 12:31PM

Dubgal72 wrote: »

Ahem, just saying this really quietly but you can manage with an ordinary stopwatch and an app like mapmyrun. I used to - still do sometimes - work out a route on mapmyrun and just go run it. I used to use the kitchen clock, now sometimes I use my stopwatch. Most times I just go and run. Nice and easy like, but just go and enjoy and run

Ps you really don't need an electronic prompt to tell you how you are doing, your body is the best judge of that

i get what your saying but I find I'm becoming a little bit more competitive with myself and like to know what my pace/distance is......

km991148 · 02-11-2015 01:57PM

gucci wrote: »

Something like a combination of foam rolling and stretching may be a good option for you? I have a bit of a routine now where I try to get a bit in every morning and I find it is really helping me.
Lots of youtube videos to show good routines to target different areas.

ha.. feel a bit silly - I forgot all about the foam roller as well - which is particularly stupid as I actually have one from some physio advice ages ago.. Doh!

Fbjm · 02-11-2015 02:29PM

I'm planning on doing next year's marathon, but all the training plans I'm finding for it are 18 week plans and it's a year away. What should I be doing at this stage to prepare, just continue with my current running schedule? I currently cover roughly 40km a week over about four runs, is that sufficient for now or should I be doing something else? Never run a marathon before so I'm honestly clueless.

Myles Splitz · 02-11-2015 02:48PM

Fbjm wrote: »

I'm planning on doing next year's marathon, but all the training plans I'm finding for it are 18 week plans and it's a year away. What should I be doing at this stage to prepare, just continue with my current running schedule? I currently cover roughly 40km a week over about four runs, is that sufficient for now or should I be doing something else? Never run a marathon before so I'm honestly clueless.

There are a number of approaches you can take to be honest, the world is your oyster.

Between now and the start of the marathon training the primary focus should be on developing aerobically as the marathon is a predominantly aerobic event, however so to are 5k's 10k's, cross country, hill running etc so you could look to target a few of these races over the coming 9 months as milestones that can help you.

slowly building your miles is important but so to is developing the other aspects of running often ignored, muscular strength and endurance, running form and other aspects are ones often ignored which is why hill reps, intervals, tempo runs, drills etc can all be added to your training to make you an all round better athlete by the time you set out to be a marathoner.

My advise would be to approach your local club about training as they will steer you in the right direction, other options are to follow generic plans you can find online or seek out personal coaching (a number of irish based coaches who sell their services) or there are plenty of websites to read up and research (and even some threads and training logs here) that may be of help.

LegIt15 · 02-11-2015 02:59PM

Hi All,

I ran Dublin last week and made a bit of a mess of the race.

I went out too hard, somehow lost all my gels in the first few miles and struggled badly with leg cramp for the last third of the race (something I have never had happen before). Going out too hard is what really annoys me here as it is the one thing that I said I wouldn't do. Got over excited on race day and plan went out the window.

I want to learn from and put the experience of DCM15 behind me as soon as possible so am looking at doing my next marathon sooner rather than later as I have a very busy 2016 with multiple weddings and other life stuff. I would very much like to run the race I trained for and put DCM15 behind me.

My question is- what is a realistic amount of time that it would take you to get yourself back to the same level of pre marathon fitness?

I have recovered well with no lingering aches or pains. Have been out for a few recovery runs and the legs are starting to come back to life. I understand that the answer to this will be completely dependent on the person but would like to hear people’s views on it. I have averaged 40 miles p/w for the year with 10+ runs 20 miles or more.

Cheers

Dubgal72 · 02-11-2015 03:45PM

Neera wrote: »

i get what your saying but I find I'm becoming a little bit more competitive with myself and like to know what my pace/distance is......

Yeah, I remember that stage. I did it too a bit last year but it's really not a good idea to get too competitive on your training runs, unless they are intervals maybe.
Most of your running should be geared towards establishing a good aerobic base. You will do this most efficiently by running easy. From this, you will be able to recover better and so the cycle continues.
Your easy runs should be done within a range, generally at a pace you can hold a conversation comfortably.

Two rules

1) KEEP THE HARD DAYS HARD AND THE EASY DAYS EASY
2) ALWAYS FOLLOW A HARD DAY WITH AN EASY DAY

What does a typical week look like if you don't mind me asking?

gucci · 02-11-2015 04:39PM

km991148 wrote: »

ha.. feel a bit silly - I forgot all about the foam roller as well - which is particularly stupid as I actually have one from some physio advice ages ago.. Doh!

I am only a bit of a newbie at the whole thing but I am really feeling the benefit of the routine. Especially for the sort of aches that you accept as a day to day part of life.....they are gradually disappearing and reducing!!

Finglas Flier · 02-11-2015 06:44PM

LegIt15 wrote: »

Hi All,

I ran Dublin last week and made a bit of a mess of the race.

I went out too hard, somehow lost all my gels in the first few miles and struggled badly with leg cramp for the last third of the race (something I have never had happen before). Going out too hard is what really annoys me here as it is the one thing that I said I wouldn't do. Got over excited on race day and plan went out the window.

I want to learn from and put the experience of DCM15 behind me as soon as possible so am looking at doing my next marathon sooner rather than later as I have a very busy 2016 with multiple weddings and other life stuff. I would very much like to run the race I trained for and put DCM15 behind me.

My question is- what is a realistic amount of time that it would take you to get yourself back to the same level of pre marathon fitness?

I have recovered well with no lingering aches or pains. Have been out for a few recovery runs and the legs are starting to come back to life. I understand that the answer to this will be completely dependent on the person but would like to hear people’s views on it. I have averaged 40 miles p/w for the year with 10+ runs 20 miles or more.

Cheers

If you are continuing to do runs then your fitness should not fall away to be honest. I have a half marathon coming up in about 3 weeks time and ran a half yesterday as training.... Staying loose for the first few weeks after the DCM with a few runs is fine....I never really stop running for any length of time because I enjoy running...I have done about 45K this week not including the DCM last Monday.

So your own baseline fitness will have a part to play but reading your post above I would say it shouldn't take too long to get up to speed. But everyone recovers at different rates and you should always listen to your body......

_Tombstone_ · 02-11-2015 11:03PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpl7hUvlo4c

davedanon · 03-11-2015 09:07AM

Finglas Flier wrote: »

I have a half marathon coming up in about 3 weeks time and ran a half yesterday as training.... Staying loose for the first few weeks after the DCM with a few runs is fine....I never really stop running for any length of time because I enjoy running...I have done about 45K this week not including the DCM last Monday.

A training half, less than a week after DCM? Sounds excessive. Fair play if that's what works for you. I'm doing Waterford, won't be running any training halves in advance, though.

Finglas Flier · 03-11-2015 09:24AM

davedanon wrote: »

A training half, less than a week after DCM? Sounds excessive. Fair play if that's what works for you. I'm doing Waterford, won't be running any training halves in advance, though.

Yeah...wasn't sure about it at first Dave...but it was a smooth run and no post marathon issues. Legs are feeling good so with the weather been as fantastic as it has been, I just carry on running. Clontarf is very flat ans am just aiming for it as a last race for a while...

Good luck in Waterford... :-)

tipping · 03-11-2015 09:39AM

After slipping around a lot at a session on wet grass running yesterday decided to invest in more appropriate footwear (Currently Kayanos are the shoes of choice).

So any recommendations? Does the over-pronation/stability shoe etc.. still apply to this type of footwear. Just want some ideas before I head into John Buckleys later.

Neera · 03-11-2015 02:24PM

Dubgal72 wrote: »

Yeah, I remember that stage. I did it too a bit last year but it's really not a good idea to get too competitive on your training runs, unless they are intervals maybe.
Most of your running should be geared towards establishing a good aerobic base. You will do this most efficiently by running easy. From this, you will be able to recover better and so the cycle continues.
Your easy runs should be done within a range, generally at a pace you can hold a conversation comfortably.

Two rules
1) KEEP THE HARD DAYS HARD AND THE EASY DAYS EASY
2) ALWAYS FOLLOW A HARD DAY WITH AN EASY DAY

What does a typical week look like if you don't mind me asking?

at the minute I go our twice during the week and run about 3.5km - 4km - takes about 20ish minutes. At the weekend I run a 5km and try to keep my pace at 6:30 per km....lately though I have been getting a little quicker so tend to complete that on about 31:30 mins. I'm looking at increasing my speed and distance now so considering joining a running club to do this.

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