Gay couple humiliated after being asked to leave Dublin restaurant

alcaline · 30-10-2015 10:01PM

Azalea wrote: »

I don't know if it's a fact that most people do though. I'm sure lots do but I don't know if most do.

I don't like when any people are being overly amorous in public, no matter what sexuality.

A bit affectionate is no biggie IMO though.

I take it you are gay?
Most people are two faced, if a gay person is in their company they will say nothing so they won't be offended, but if no gay person is present you will hear them say something different.
The usual conversation goes something like," I wish the gay people all the best, but i don't want to know anything about. He was kissing his boyfriend ,jesus i nearly got sick."
Thats the truth of it, just because you don't like it don't make it false.

Kiwi in IE · 30-10-2015 10:05PM

alcaline wrote: »

I take it you are gay?
Most people are two faced, if a gay person is in their company they will say nothing so they won't be offended, but if no gay person is present you will hear them say something different.
The usual conversation goes something like," I wish the gay people all the best, but i don't want to know anything about. He was kissing his boyfriend ,jesus i nearly got sick."
Thats the truth of it, just because you don't like it don't make it false.

I think this says more about your social circle than society in general.

One eyed Jack · 30-10-2015 10:07PM

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

You're right, I must remember to never hold my husbands hand again in a restaurant in case we are asked to leave! Yeah right!

Stay at home indoors if I don't want to see PDAs? Yeah right! My statement was just as valid as yours, and was intended to highlight the silliness of your declaration. Why should anyone who doesn't want to see PDA stay at home indoors? Would you be happy told stay indoors with your husband so I wouldn't have to witness your PDA?

In a restaurant, at least I have a right to complain if you're spoiling my enjoyment of my dining experience.

Are people not allowed to propose in restaurants any longer in case other diners get put off their meals? Of course you can justify it and it wasn't discrimination!

It wasn't discrimination. A complaint was made by a customer about the behaviour of another customer. An attempt was made by the waiter to ask the customer to refrain from public displays of affection. The customer asked to see the management and then left, having been left unsatisfied by the attempted offer to resolve the issue.

There was no grounds for discrimination there on the part of management or the restaurant owners (could well be the same people).

alcaline · 30-10-2015 10:08PM

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

I think this says more about your social circle than society in general.

Same could be said about yours, birds of a feather flock together.
Gay people hang around together and straight people hang around together, straight people don't want to know about the gay lifestyle, gay people cant handle that fact.

darkpagandeath · 30-10-2015 10:10PM

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

I think this says more about your social circle than society in general.

Dunno about that, My Gay mates go on about "breeders" seems pretty common word for Straight. Never bother me for example. People say a lot of stuff I don't worry about being permanently outraged.

Ghost Buster · 30-10-2015 10:10PM

alcaline wrote: »

Same could be said about yours, birds of a feather flock together.
Gay people hang around together and straight people hang around together, straight people don't want to know about the gay lifestyle, gay people cant handle that fact.

I have gay men and lesbien women in my circle and i dont give a **** what they do with their bits.

Kiwi in IE · 30-10-2015 10:11PM

OEJ, I said people who don't want to see gay couples should stay in their houses, not people who don't want to see PDA's. If reported accounts are accurate and the couple were holding hands and looking into each others eyes, you know as well as I do that no heterosexual couple would be kicked out of a restaurant for that!

alcaline · 30-10-2015 10:12PM

Ghost Buster wrote: »

I have gay men and lesbien women in my circle and i dont give a **** what they do with their bits.

Part of the PC liberal hate mob?
They rage against straight white men, hate their guts.

Kiwi in IE · 30-10-2015 10:12PM

alcaline wrote: »

Same could be said about yours, birds of a feather flock together.
Gay people hang around together and straight people hang around together, straight people don't want to know about the gay lifestyle, gay people cant handle that fact.

I'm straight.

alcaline · 30-10-2015 10:15PM

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

I'm straight.

So you are a woman, straight men are repulsed by the sight of two men kissing. Ask your husband for a truthful answer, not the PC one he thinks he should give.

Ghost Buster · 30-10-2015 10:15PM

alcaline wrote: »

Part of the PC liberal hate mob?
They rage against straight white men, hate their guts.

Huh?

alcaline · 30-10-2015 10:16PM

Ghost Buster wrote: »

Huh?

Straight white men are not allowed in todays PC world to express a view.

30-10-2015 10:18PM

alcaline wrote: »

Straight white men are not allowed in todays PC world to express a view.

If you say so. No one else appears to be. Maybe "todays world" is one in your head - and not this one the rest of us are in out here in reality?

mynameis905 · 30-10-2015 10:19PM

alcaline wrote: »

I take it you are gay?
Most people are two faced, if a gay person is in their company they will say nothing so they won't be offended, but if no gay person is present you will hear them say something different.
The usual conversation goes something like," I wish the gay people all the best, but i don't want to know anything about. He was kissing his boyfriend ,jesus i nearly got sick."
Thats the truth of it, just because you don't like it don't make it false.

I'm a heterosexual white male and I don't find anything particularly offensive with two men kissing or holding hands in public. Unusual maybe, but certainly not repulsive or nauseating.

Full on 'face wearing' is something I would find a bit distasteful, regardless of the gender or orientation of those involved.

Out of curiosity, how do you feel about two women kissing in public?

Arytonblue · 30-10-2015 10:19PM

One eyed Jack wrote: »

In a restaurant, at least I have a right to complain if you're spoiling my enjoyment of my dining experience.

Unless a couple (straight or gay) are being loud and obnoxious and are being directly disruptive, saying you have 'a right to complain' because they're 'spoiling' your dining experience just comes across as a fair bit precious tbh. There are a lot of things to complain about in a restaurant (most of them involve children) but a couple holding hands or kissing are pretty low on that list, if at all.

One eyed Jack · 30-10-2015 10:23PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

And I said numerous times I am not talking about just you but the whole idea of complaining about such an inane PDA. I very clearly said "You think holding hands is a PDA maybe worthy of some level of complaint and that having complained one should expect to be satisfied regardless of how ridiculous their standards for satisfaction may be." which does not indicate it has to be YOU doing the complaining. So it is you taking things and mixing it up - not me.

My point couldn't be simpler - anyone, has the right to complain about something they find distasteful, and they have a right to expect that their issue will be resolved to their satisfaction. What they expect, and what they may get, are two completely different things.

Now in a different context where the object of ire is actually doing something wrong or intrusive - we could parse entirely differently what you would be warranted in expecting upon complaint. But holding hands - that ain't it. Nothing wrong. Nothing intrusive. There is no reason to pander to your hang ups at all - let alone to the degree of disturbing - or even banishing - entirely innocent people. For THAT I could only tell such a person "Get over yourself".

Clearly, "doing something wrong", depends upon where you choose to eat. There are standards you're expected to meet. Public displays of affection are obviously breaching the standards in that particular restaurant, so while you might feel you're not doing anything wrong, your opinion is irrelevant if you're told that what you're doing is unacceptable behaviour. Telling the waiter, or anyone else, to get over themselves, is likely to see you outside on the pavement, while I continue to enjoy my dining experience.

Flincher · 30-10-2015 10:24PM

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Stay at home indoors if I don't want to see PDAs? Yeah right! My statement was just as valid as yours, and was intended to highlight the silliness of your declaration. Why should anyone who doesn't want to see PDA stay at home indoors? Would you be happy told stay indoors with your husband so I wouldn't have to witness your PDA?

In a restaurant, at least I have a right to complain if you're spoiling my enjoyment of my dining experience.

It wasn't discrimination. A complaint was made by a customer about the behaviour of another customer. An attempt was made by the waiter to ask the customer to refrain from public displays of affection. The customer asked to see the management and then left, having been left unsatisfied by the attempted offer to resolve the issue.

There was no grounds for discrimination there on the part of management or the restaurant owners (could well be the same people).

Unfortunately we don't have enough information to make that sort of call.

If the couple were completely over the top in turns of PDA, the other customer would have been well within their rights to complain, and a waiter may have said something along the lines of "here folks, any chance ye could turn down the lovey dovey a notch".

On the other had, the couple could have been behaving perfectly reasonably. In that case, say for example, the complaining customer said to the waiter "I hate looking at gay people holding hands, tell them to stop" she would have no right to have her complaint dealt with.

Either of the two scenarios could have played out.....

Kiwi in IE · 30-10-2015 10:24PM

alcaline wrote: »

So you are a woman, straight men are repulsed by the sight of two men kissing. Ask your husband for a truthful answer, not the PC one he thinks he should give.

Yes, I'm a woman, and no he is not. He was best man at our mates wedding back home, the couple were both men, and guess what happened during the ceremony... they kissed!

Kiwi in IE · 30-10-2015 10:30PM

alcaline wrote: »

Straight white men are not allowed in todays PC world to express a view.

You are obviously not a straight, white man then, since you are expressing a view?

One eyed Jack · 30-10-2015 10:31PM

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

OEJ, I said people who don't want to see gay couples should stay in their houses, not people who don't want to see PDA's. If reported accounts are accurate and the couple were holding hands and looking into each others eyes, you know as well as I do that no heterosexual couple would be kicked out of a restaurant for that!

I think we also both know Kiwi that no gay couple would be kicked out of a restaurant in Dublin city centre for it either.

30-10-2015 10:31PM

Arytonblue wrote: »

Unless a couple (straight or gay) are being loud and obnoxious and are being directly disruptive, saying you have 'a right to complain' because they're 'spoiling' your dining experience just comes across as a fair bit precious tbh.

Precious indeed - but you will note that he has shifted a lot of his arguments into one that as at least pedantically entirely correct. He does have "the right to complain".

People holding hands is a pathetic - self serving - entirely nonsense thing to complain about. As laughable as it is petty and obnoxious. But it is still pedantically entirely correct to say that someone has that right to make an ass of themselves and complain about it.

What such a person should expect HAVING complained however is a different discussion. I see no reason such a person should be offered anything but a new table - or the door. Jack appears to think he should expect some arbitrary thing called "satisfaction" - a word thrown out there without any substance and could mean anything.

I would just say in response that ones expectation of satisfaction should depend entirely on what "satisfaction" will mean to them in that context.

One eyed Jack wrote: »

My point couldn't be simpler - anyone, has the right to complain about something they find distasteful, and they have a right to expect that their issue will be resolved to their satisfaction. What they expect, and what they may get, are two completely different things.

Then your point is simplistic not simple. It is saying nothing at all and is a shift away from most of the things you originally said that I replied to - much of which you ignored and could not even answer.

You are now back pedalled into a point where yuo are saying literally nothing but "I have my right to speak and have my expectations - even if they do not scale well with reality".

I am clearly not talking about your right to harbour internal expectations in your head as if I am accusing you of some level of thought crime or some nonsense - you are using a dilute and useless version of "expect" there which - like the point about having the right to complain - is a merely pedantically correct linguistic non-point.

I am talking about the more external right to actually _expect_ anyone to satisfy your complaints here. And there is none of that. The only think you have any actual _basis_ (a better word than "right" here) to be expecting is to be shown to another table - or to the exist. There is certainly no basis for expecting that the owner should be compelled to disturb the innocent - let alone ask them to leave.

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Clearly, "doing something wrong", depends upon where you choose to eat. There are standards you're expected to meet.

So you keep saying - but you have ignored and dodged every request to have you give a SHORT list of restaurants who maintain ANY standards on hand holding. I certainly can not think of a single place where hand holders are "doing something wrong". So I am not sure your claim that it depends where you choose to eat is accurate at all. It appears to be quite universal.

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Public displays of affection are obviously breaching the standards in that particular restaurant

Funny that you do not believe the event happened - yet are happy to use it as an example as if it did when it suits you. Actually even if the event did happen - you do not know this to be true. It might - as I pointed out - have nothing at all to do with the standards of the restaurant. It might - again as I pointed out - be because the customer who decided to take offense has some disproportionate sway over the action of the owner. to name _but one_ possible alternative to your assertion out of many.

Ghost Buster · 30-10-2015 10:32PM

alcaline wrote: »

So you are a woman, straight men are repulsed by the sight of two men kissing. Ask your husband for a truthful answer, not the PC one he thinks he should give.

Partially true. Not repulsed by it but I dont like seeing men kissing cos I dont fancy doing it myself. I feel similar seeing people eat coleslaw or playing football.
Thats my problem.

Ghost Buster · 30-10-2015 10:33PM

alcaline wrote: »

Straight white men are not allowed in todays PC world to express a view.

Sure they are. But they can also be called on it if its boll.ox.

30-10-2015 10:36PM

Ghost Buster wrote: »

Sure they are. But they can also be called on it if its boll.ox.

Yeah that is something I notice more and more these days. That people who complain about having a right to their opinion - or that some group is not allowed have an opinion - are doing so because someone DARED to follow up by expressing a counter opinion.

In other words it is not their own right to have an opinion that is their concern - but their upset that other people also have it too.

Fr_Dougal · 30-10-2015 10:38PM

alcaline wrote: »

Straight white men are not allowed in todays PC world to express a view.

OMG it's true...

One eyed Jack · 30-10-2015 10:45PM

Tax I think what you're willing to accept as a reasonable resolution, and what I am willing to accept as a reasonable resolution, are two very different things. You may be of the impression that all you deserve is to be moved to another table. I would be happy for the couple to be made aware that their behaviour is making me uncomfortable. If they continued, then I would complain again, and I would complain again after that, until they either understood and quit their public displays, or they decided to leave of their own accord.

QuinDixie · 30-10-2015 10:47PM

Cienciano wrote: »

I just don't believe the story. Sounds made up. Looks like from twitter that GCN were asked about it but aren't saying anything.

totally made up story, the gay mafia are not getting the backlash they expected from the gay marriage referendum, so they have to make up stories of their rights under attack.

to set the moral agenda and to get this agenda into the educational system, it helps to have negative stories like this.

Expect more stories of this ilk, gay adoption has to be won dont you know.

Billy86 · 30-10-2015 10:47PM

One eyed Jack wrote: »

It's relevant because the person who wrote the letter assumes that it's only because they were a gay couple that they were asked by management not to be so affectionate with each other in the restaurant.

From the OP...

“My partner and I were in a Dublin city centre restaurant celebrating our second anniversary and we were being physically tactile with each other. Not kissing the faces of each other or anything, but holding hands and looking into each other’s eyes,” the letter read.

Probably good management cut them off there, before things got out of hand. Sure next thing you knew, they could have been laughing at each others jokes and making plans for the weekend... the scoundrels! :eek:

Ghost Buster · 30-10-2015 10:49PM

Billy86 wrote: »

From the OP...

“My partner and I were in a Dublin city centre restaurant celebrating our second anniversary and we were being physically tactile with each other. Not kissing the faces of each other or anything, but holding hands and looking into each other’s eyes,” the letter read.

Probably good management cut them off there, before things got out of hand. Sure next thing you knew, they could have been laughing at each others jokes and making plans for the weekend... the scoundrels! :eek:

Very promiscuous lot de gays. Next thing one might feed a fork of sausage to the other and anal would swiftly follow.

One eyed Jack · 30-10-2015 10:51PM

QuinDixie wrote: »

totally made up story, the gay mafia are not getting the backlash they expected from the gay marriage referendum, so they have to make up stories of their rights under attack.

to set the moral agenda and to get this agenda into the educational system, it helps to have negative stories like this.

Expect more stories of this ilk, gay adoption has to be won dont you know.

I hate to be the one to break it to you but... well, unless you actually have been taking Kiwi's advice, people who are gay were always eligible to apply for an adoption.

Gay couple humiliated after being asked to leave Dublin restaurant

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