All Stations To Bray on the DART?

Biffo The Bare · 21-10-2015 10:28AM #1

More often than not the drivers skip the final few stations to Bray (Killiney, Shankhill) in the mornings. And if the PA system on the train is not functioning, the commuters don't hear the announcement that the stations are being skipped. So whatever feeder busses customers depend on in Killiney and Shankhill are missed.
This is an unacceptable situation.
I heard a few commuters giving out stink to a driver this morning for doing this in Bray. I didn't add to it because I think they made their point adequately.
The excuse is always "I announced it in Dun Laoghaire" or some derivation of that. But if the PA is not working, what good is that?
And If they have to get the next train, they have probably missed their feeder bus anyway.
Is there a better way of sorting out this issue than giving out stink to the driver?

LXFlyer · 21-10-2015 10:42AM

Biffo The Bare wrote: »

More often than not the drivers skip the final few stations to Bray (Killiney, Shankhill) in the mornings. And if the PA system on the train is not functioning, the commuters don't hear the announcement that the stations are being skipped. So whatever feeder busses customers depend on in Killiney and Shankhill are missed.
This is an unacceptable situation.
I heard a few commuters giving out stink to a driver this morning for doing this in Bray. I didn't add to it because I think they made their point adequately.
The excuse is always "I announced it in Dun Laoghaire" or some derivation of that. But if the PA is not working, what good is that?
And If they have to get the next train, they have probably missed their feeder bus anyway.
Is there a better way of sorting out this issue than giving out stink to the driver?

"More often than not"? I suspect that is an exaggeration.

There are the five diesel services from Dundalk, Drogheda, or Maynooth to Bray that don't stop between Dun Laoghaire and Bray (08:00, 08:15, 08:37, 08:41 and 09:00 from Connolly). Perhaps you're getting mixed up with those services?

Also, there are no feeder buses in either Killiney or Shankill.

Biffo The Bare · 21-10-2015 10:55AM

lxflyer wrote: »

"More often than not"? I suspect that is an exaggeration.

There are the five diesel services from Dundalk, Drogheda, or Maynooth to Bray that don't stop between Dun Laoghaire and Bray (08:00, 08:15, 08:37, 08:41 and 09:00 from Connolly). Perhaps you're getting mixed up with those services?

Also, there are no feeder buses in either Killiney or Shankill.

Wrong and wrong and wrong. :rolleyes:

These are normal electrical powered dart services that announce "All stations to Bray" at the start of the journey.
And There are private commuter busses from Shankhill and Killiney going to various places including Cherrywood.
Reason I know is I use them sometimes to get to Cherrywood.

Captain Chaos · 21-10-2015 11:44AM

Some north bound DART services in the evenings do this sometimes if they are running late to get back into their slot.

The PA will say all stations to Howth or Malahide then the driver will say it's a non stop DART service from Connolly to Howth Junction and then all stations.

GM228 · 21-10-2015 11:54AM

Biffo The Bare wrote: »

More often than not the drivers skip the final few stations to Bray (Killiney, Shankhill) in the mornings. And if the PA system on the train is not functioning, the commuters don't hear the announcement that the stations are being skipped. So whatever feeder busses customers depend on in Killiney and Shankhill are missed.
This is an unacceptable situation.
I heard a few commuters giving out stink to a driver this morning for doing this in Bray. I didn't add to it because I think they made their point adequately.
The excuse is always "I announced it in Dun Laoghaire" or some derivation of that. But if the PA is not working, what good is that?
And If they have to get the next train, they have probably missed their feeder bus anyway.
Is there a better way of sorting out this issue than giving out stink to the driver?

It's extremely rare for this to happen although it has been known to happen when things go wrong such as delayed trains, failures etc.

To say more often than not is nonsense.

GM228

10000maniacs · 21-10-2015 11:57AM

Captain Chaos wrote: »

Some north bound DART services in the evenings do this sometimes if they are running late to get back into their slot.

The PA will say all stations to Howth or Malahide then the driver will say it's a non stop DART service from Connolly to Howth Junction and then all stations.

What if the Public announcement system is switched off on the train? Obviously this is one of the issues the OP raised.
Anyway "All Stations To Bray" should mean "All Stations To Bray".
This is far too common an occurrence for my liking.
There are situations where there is over 90 minutes between trains stopping in Shankill because
1: Diesel trains are getting more common even on the peak times and these don't stop at Shankill.
2: They decide mid journey frequently to skip Shankill on "All Stations To Bray" darts.

LXFlyer · 21-10-2015 12:00PM

Biffo The Bare wrote: »

Wrong and wrong and wrong. :rolleyes:

These are normal electrical powered dart services that announce "All stations to Bray" at the start of the journey.
And There are private commuter busses from Shankhill and Killiney going to various places including Cherrywood.
Reason I know is I use them sometimes to get to Cherrywood.

Are you seriously suggesting that this happens on a daily basis? I don't think so.

It certainly is not "more often than not".

That's a private bus service - not a "feeder bus".

Captain Chaos · 21-10-2015 12:01PM

10000maniacs wrote: »

What if the Public announcement system is switched off on the train? Obviously this is one of the issues the OP raised.
Anyway "All Stations To Bray" should mean "All Stations To Bray".
This is far too common an occurrence for my liking.
There are situations where there is over 90 minutes between trains stopping in Shankill because
1: Diesel trains are getting more common even on the peak times and these don't stop at Shankill.
2: They decide mid journey frequently to skip Shankill on "All Stations To Bray" darts.

The driver makes the announcement over the speaker system when that happens, that is always active even if the PA system is gone wonky.

GM228 · 21-10-2015 12:05PM

Captain Chaos wrote: »

The driver makes the announcement over the speaker system when that happens, that is always active even if the PA system is gone wonky.

The problem is far too often people are too caught up reading books, listening to iPods etc to notice the PA announcements.

I've seen it many times all over the world were announcements are made but not noticed and those who don't notice are convinced there were no announcements made.

GM228

LXFlyer · 21-10-2015 12:06PM

10000maniacs wrote: »

What if the Public announcement system is switched off on the train? Obviously this is one of the issues the OP raised.
Anyway "All Stations To Bray" should mean "All Stations To Bray".
This is far too common an occurrence for my liking.
There are situations where there is over 90 minutes between trains stopping in Shankill because
1: Diesel trains are getting more common even on the peak times and these don't stop at Shankill.
2: They decide mid journey frequently to skip Shankill on "All Stations To Bray" darts.

Hang on - there is never a time where there is a 90 minute gap in trains serving Shankill, given that the DART operates at a minimum frequency of every 15 minutes.

There are exactly the same number of diesels operating to Bray now as there were 10 years ago, so let's not get carried away with this (1 from Maynooth and 4 from the Northern line). There is still a 15 minute DART service around those trains.

This should only happen where something has gone significantly wrong with the service so that sets and drivers are in the wrong position due to ongoing delays. In that circumstance, this course of action is usually the only option (or go out of service altogether).

GM228 · 21-10-2015 12:07PM

lxflyer wrote: »

Are you seriously suggesting that this happens on a daily basis? I don't think so.

That's a private bus service - not a "feeder bus".

It happens, but is RARE, not a common occurrence as some are suggesting.

GM228

carrolls · 21-10-2015 12:07PM

Captain Chaos wrote: »

The driver makes the announcement over the speaker system when that happens, that is always active even if the PA system is gone wonky.

This scenario has happened to me many times. And the speaker system was off in all scenarios.
Unacceptable conduct.
Which part of "All Stations To Bray" are they/you having trouble with?
The decision to bypass Shankill should have been made before the customer boards. And the event listed in the Dart timetable at the station. This is how commuters should be treated. basic stuff.

Not rocket science.

GM228 · 21-10-2015 12:08PM

carrolls wrote: »

This scenario has happened to me many times. And the speaker system was off in all scenarios.
Unacceptable conduct.
Which part of "All Stations To Bray" are they/you having trouble with?
The decision to bypass Shankill should have been made before the customer boards. And the event listed in the Dart timetable at the station.
Not rocket science.

The problem is that sometimes issues arise when the train is already in service which requires it to happen!

GM228

LXFlyer · 21-10-2015 12:10PM

carrolls wrote: »

This scenario has happened to me many times. And the speaker system was off in all scenarios.
Unacceptable conduct.
Which part of "All Stations To Bray" are they/you having trouble with?
The decision to bypass Shankill should have been made before the customer boards. And the event listed in the Dart timetable at the station. This is how commuters should be treated. basic stuff.

Not rocket science.

As posted above this only happens if services are operating with significant delays and in order to get the schedule back on time the controllers will make a decision mid-journey to alter the service pattern. Otherwise the trains would not be on schedule for the rest of the day.

The same happens when there is disruption to Dublin Bus - sometimes that is the only way that they can get the service back on track.

GM228 · 21-10-2015 12:12PM

lxflyer wrote: »

There are exactly the same number of diesels operating to Bray now as there were 10 years ago, so let's not get carried away with this (1 from Maynooth and 4 from the Northern line). There is still a 15 minute DART service around those trains.

There is actually less diesels now than a few years ago as some ECS moves were eliminated.

GM228

carrolls · 21-10-2015 12:13PM

lxflyer wrote: »

As posted above this only happens if services are operating with significant delays and in order to get the schedule back on time the controllers will make a decision mid-journey to alter the service pattern.

The same happens when there is disruption to Dublin Bus - sometimes that is the only way that they can get the service back on track.

Not good enough. "All Stations To Bray" should mean "All Stations To Bray".
Singling out stations to bypass is unfair on commuters, especially if there are issues with the microphone system.

LXFlyer · 21-10-2015 12:23PM

GM228 wrote: »

There is actually less diesels now than a few years ago as some ECS moves were eliminated.

GM228

There are exactly the same number of in-service trains, which I was referring to, and I actually listed them out.

The ECS moves are no consequence to anyone using the service as they can't be used! Why would I refer to them in the context of this discussion?

LXFlyer · 21-10-2015 12:24PM

carrolls wrote: »

Not good enough. "All Stations To Bray" should mean "All Stations To Bray".
Singling out stations to bypass is unfair on commuters, especially if there are issues with the microphone system.

Unfortunately there is no transport operator in the world that doesn't have to make decisions like that from time to time.

It's a fact of life when delays happen.

The only other option is to curtail the service short (at Dun Laoghaire for example) or go out of service altogether.

It's far from ideal, but there is not much else that can be done in those circumstances.

cython · 21-10-2015 12:37PM

lxflyer wrote: »

There are exactly the same number of in-service trains, which I was referring to, and I actually listed them out.

The ECS moves are no consequence to anyone using the service as they can't be used! Why would I refer to them in the context of this discussion?

It's potentially worth mentioning as presumably ECS moves could be thought of as taking throughput from the line capacity (for trains as opposed to directly from passenger numbers), and so this is now less of an issue than previously. Since the bypassing services basically can't be used by anyone looking to get on/off at that station, the ECS moves are really pretty much the same as the non-stopping services from their perspective in any case.

LXFlyer · 21-10-2015 12:42PM

cython wrote: »

It's potentially worth mentioning as presumably ECS moves could be thought of as taking throughput from the line capacity (for trains as opposed to directly from passenger numbers), and so this is now less of an issue than previously. Since the bypassing services basically can't be used by anyone looking to get on/off at that station, the ECS moves are really pretty much the same as the non-stopping services from their perspective in any case.

They're irrelevant at that time of day - they go/went to Connolly after the morning peak and from Connolly in the afternoon.

Given that the people are referring to southbound DARTs in the morning I'm not sure how they would come into the equation, hence my comment.

Captain Chaos · 21-10-2015 12:43PM

GM228 wrote: »

The problem is far too often people are too caught up reading books, listening to iPods etc to notice the PA announcements.

I've seen it many times all over the world were announcements are made but not noticed and those who don't notice are convinced there were no announcements made.

GM228

That's a first world problem really. I see it happen every day on the Luas, the tram clearly tells you on the PA if it's going to Connolly or The Point yet people are too busy yapping away, next you hear them frantically asking everyone, "where is this tram going". If they were paying any sort of attention they would know if they are really that worried about it.

People don't read sign in general never mind actually listen to whats going on around them. I can see how pick pockets do so well on public transport.

10000maniacs · 21-10-2015 12:52PM

Captain Chaos wrote: »

That's a first world problem really. I see it happen every day on the Luas, the tram clearly tells you on the PA if it's going to Connolly or The Point yet people are too busy yapping away, next you hear them frantically asking everyone, "where is this tram going". If they were paying any sort of attention they would know if they are really that worried about it.

People don't read sign in general never mind actually listen to whats going on around them. I can see how pick pockets do so well on public transport.

Any time I have been caught in that situation, i.e. ending up in Bray after Shankill was bypassed, it was always either because the speaker announcement system was off or the driver failed to announce the bypass.
You can use hyperbole and start calling us commuters liars all you want.
But it is a ridiculous situation to eliminate stations from a route without properly announcing it. Even if it is actually announced it is still ridiculous. Because maybe the next train is too late.

GM228 · 21-10-2015 01:08PM

lxflyer wrote: »

They're irrelevant at that time of day - they go/went to Connolly after the morning peak and from Connolly in the afternoon.

Given that the people are referring to southbound DARTs in the morning I'm not sure how they would come into the equation, hence my comment.

I referenced the ECS moves as another poster stated generally that more diesels were out there including peak (not just peak). Just pointing out that there are less diesels altogether that could get in the way!

Also trains going in the opposite direction can have an impact on trains going southbound at times of disruption for various reasons, at times of disruption any train weather empty or passenger will impact on service recovery so any train in any direction is relevant to the discussion as these things only happen when things go wrong!

GM228

GM228 · 21-10-2015 01:18PM

10000maniacs wrote: »

Any time I have been caught in that situation, i.e. ending up in Bray after Shankill was bypassed, it was always either because the speaker announcement system was off or the driver failed to announce the bypass.
You can use hyperbole and start calling us commuters liars all you want.
But it is a ridiculous situation to eliminate stations from a route without properly announcing it. Even if it is actually announced it is still ridiculous. Because maybe the next train is too late.

So can I ask how many times your DART has bypassed stations as you imply it happens often, and I doubt very much the PA is always broken or a driver won't announce it!

I have never been on a bus, train or tram where when stops/routes change that an announcement hasn't been made or at least attempted, sometimes yes the PA is muddled but at least an attempt is made.

GM228

Wild Garlic · 21-10-2015 03:49PM

Biffo The Bare wrote: »

More often than not the drivers skip the final few stations to Bray (Killiney, Shankhill) in the mornings. And if the PA system on the train is not functioning, the commuters don't hear the announcement that the stations are being skipped. So whatever feeder busses customers depend on in Killiney and Shankhill are missed.
This is an unacceptable situation.
I heard a few commuters giving out stink to a driver this morning for doing this in Bray. I didn't add to it because I think they made their point adequately.
The excuse is always "I announced it in Dun Laoghaire" or some derivation of that. But if the PA is not working, what good is that?
And If they have to get the next train, they have probably missed their feeder bus anyway.
Is there a better way of sorting out this issue than giving out stink to the driver?

What service did that happen on this morning?

Biffo The Bare · 21-10-2015 04:03PM

Wild Garlic wrote: »

What service did that happen on this morning?

The 9:30 to Shankill.. Or not to Shankill:rolleyes:

Wild Garlic · 21-10-2015 04:07PM

Biffo The Bare wrote: »

The 9:30 to Shankill.. Or not to Shankill:rolleyes:

From?

cython · 21-10-2015 04:23PM

lxflyer wrote: »

They're irrelevant at that time of day - they go/went to Connolly after the morning peak and from Connolly in the afternoon.

Given that the people are referring to southbound DARTs in the morning I'm not sure how they would come into the equation, hence my comment.

Well surely you should lead with that fact then, as their operating outside of peak hours is surely more of factor in their irrelevance than their not being usable?! Honestly, the amount of posters on here sometimes putting the main emphasis on the less relevant details is astonishing

LXFlyer · 21-10-2015 05:46PM

cython wrote: »

Well surely you should lead with that fact then, as their operating outside of peak hours is surely more of factor in their irrelevance than their not being usable?! Honestly, the amount of posters on here sometimes putting the main emphasis on the less relevant details is astonishing

Well I am pretty sure that the person to whom I replied about them would have known that, given their knowledge!

I didn't bring them up in the first place, but was replying to a post that did.

GM228 · 21-10-2015 06:31PM

lxflyer wrote: »

They're irrelevant at that time of day - they go/went to Connolly after the morning peak and from Connolly in the afternoon.

Given that the people are referring to southbound DARTs in the morning I'm not sure how they would come into the equation, hence my comment.

As I stated ECS trains do bear relevence to the discussion when the reason for such occurrences happens when things go wrong and an ECS can have a bearing on service recovery. Just becauae a train us running in the opposite direction or empty doesn't mean it has no bearing on the situation being discussed.

The OP did indeed state the morning but did not mention if it was peak or not and as it turns the cancled ECS ran slightly before the OPs train-and the ECS which still runs by the way also runs at a similar time.

GM228

devnull · 21-10-2015 07:32PM

Issues with the information systems on the 29000's and the 85xx Darts have been chronic ever since they were put into service, they very rarely work correctly and increasingly are always turned off and the displays are working even less often.*

The only trains that have a proper, reliable functioning passenger information system on the whole network are the 81xx class which work no problems asked. If only Irish Rail got Siemens to fit the same system to the other trains we'd all be better off.

* I strongly suspect there is more than one PIS system on the 85xx class because it's not uncommon for the announcements, exterior and interior displays all to be saying different things to each other

All Stations To Bray on the DART?

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