Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2015/16 (*EVERYONE READ MOD POST in OP)

LuckyLloyd · 07-10-2015 09:50AM

punk_one82 wrote: »

Why did you hate it? Don't you think it's great to see smaller clubs take on the big dogs in Europe? Do you hate Atletico's recent success too?

Dortmund and Athletico are not small clubs. They are relative Giants of the European game. Dortmund won the European Cup 18 years ago like!

Dickerty · 07-10-2015 09:52AM

punk_one82 wrote: »

Why did you hate it? Don't you think it's great to see smaller clubs take on the big dogs in Europe? Do you hate Atletico's recent success too?

Not everyone has become an Atletico fan though, La Liga followers still gravitate towards either Real or Barca. But EVERYONE loved Dortmund.

And I think that's fine! They were a middling team that broke the established order, like Valencia under Rafa or Parma in the 90s. So kudos to them, I say...

Harry Palmr · 07-10-2015 10:00AM

Jasus I'm away with the fairies, I just read the same page twice (thanks boards' unique instant replay service) and didn't realise until I tried to thank a post twice.

punk_one82 · 07-10-2015 10:01AM

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Dortmund and Athletico are not small clubs. They are relative Giants of the European game. Dortmund won the European Cup 18 years ago like!

I said smaller, not small. They are smaller in comparison to Bayern Munich, they've nowhere near the spending power of PSG, they're nowhere near the level of Barca or Madrid. They took on the powerhouses in Europe and they did incredibly well. They played great, energetic football and their manager was a lovable headcase. People jumped on board and quite rightly so. It's the same as us 2 years ago. Everything clicked, Suarez was our headcase and many neutrals got on board and wanted us to win the league as a result.

Edit: and another reason to love Dortmund is the fans. They had absolutely everything going for them at the time.

MD1990 · 07-10-2015 10:07AM

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

I liked Dortmund, I detested their hipster fair weather swell of support. Don't hear much about them since it started to go pear shaped early last season do ya?

Lol they had 80,000 attendances back in 07/08 when they were fighting relegation.You don't have a clue what you are talking about. It was often remarked how the fans stood by the team & Klopp last year & how it showed Dortmund fans were different. But you probably prefer the Real fans who like to boo any player who isn't playing well. They are the supporters I dislike.

punk_one82 · 07-10-2015 10:10AM

MD1990 wrote: »

Lol they had 80,000 attendances back in 07/08 when they were fighting relegation.You don't have a clue what you are talking about. It was often remarked how the fans stood by the team & Klopp last year & how it showed Dortmund fans were different. But you probably prefer the Real fans who like to boo any player who isn't playing well. They are the supporters I dislike.

The Dortmund fans are the greatest fans on earth in my opinion.

ricero · 07-10-2015 10:11AM

Delighted we didn't give the number 8 shirt away since Stevie left. Keep it for reus in January

Hoki · 07-10-2015 10:12AM

Klopps & Rodgers

Mr.H · 07-10-2015 10:13AM

The whole big club small club debate is right up there with world class or just not world class

Its all relative, circumstantial and subjective

For example we might not think Notts county are a "big club" yet they are the oldest football team in the world. Nottingham forest may not seem "big" but they won the European cup twice which Arsenal have not even won once. Villa again won the European cup. Newcastle have a huge support base.

So saying a club is big based on money is complete horse manure. Arsenal have loads of money but are too pre occupied trying to rip off fans. Their money hasnt brought them a European title. City have no Champions league dispite their billions. Chelsea took what 10 years to win it after their billion quid??

Money buys a lot of things but it doesnt make you a "bigger club"

ffs what did money bring Anzi and Malaga??

Money can disappear but real support wont

Ever wonder what would happen Chelsea if Roman left and decided he wanted his money back? How about City? You really think they are "debt free" if the owner decides he wants his money back?

"Big club" is far too subjective to be as simplistic as "they have more money"

Hoki · 07-10-2015 10:16AM

Honey I Blew up the Klopp

punk_one82 · 07-10-2015 10:16AM

Mr.H wrote: »

The whole big club small club debate is right up there with world class or just not world class

Its all relative, circumstantial and subjective

For example we might not think Notts county are a "big club" yet they are the oldest football team in the world. Nottingham forest may not seem "big" but they won the European cup twice which Arsenal have not even won once. Villa again won the European cup. Newcastle have a huge support base.

So saying a club is big based on money is complete horse manure. Arsenal have loads of money but are too pre occupied trying to rip off fans. Their money hasnt brought them a European title. City have no Champions league dispite their billions. Chelsea took what 10 years to win it after their billion quid??

Money buys a lot of things but it doesnt make you a "bigger club"

ffs what did money bring Anzi and Malaga??

Money can disappear but real support wont

Ever wonder what would happen Chelsea if Roman left and decided he wanted his money back? How about City? You really think they are "debt free" if the owner decides he wants his money back?

"Big club" is far too subjective to be as simplistic as "they have more money"

Given the fact that I mentioned teams reaching the knockout stages of the Champions League regularly I thought you would see that I wasn't implying money = big club.

Kirby · 07-10-2015 10:18AM

Mr.H wrote: »

Ever wonder what would happen Chelsea if Roman left and decided he wanted his money back?

This has been postulated before and the answer is "not a lot would change".

The money he has sunk into the club has been classified as a gift so in the event he walked away, he isnt legally entitled to any of it back. More over, Chelsea have moved from being reliant on him to a model of self sustainability which their accounts of the last few years will attest to. And they've done it without the sly "sponsorship" money that Etihad/City owners used. Their spending has slowed down even with the tv money while most clubs have increased theirs. That may point to their lacklustre recruitment in the summer and poor season so far. A stale squad.

It's a moot point anyway as he's been there long enough to prove he isnt a flash in the pan and is there for the long haul. If he was to sell, another foreign owner would pick up the club quickly. They have assets and a brand that they didnt have a decade ago.

Mr.H · 07-10-2015 10:26AM

punk_one82 wrote: »

Given the fact that I mentioned teams reaching the knockout stages of the Champions League regularly I thought you would see that I wasn't implying money = big club.

Fair enough I apologise if I am labelling you the wrong way

I just think you are talking Dortmund down a little considering they have only missed out on the knockouts once in the last 5 years.

They are not household names here but in Germany Dortmund are a bid deal. They would be on par with Bayern in terms of domestic support

Knex* · 07-10-2015 10:27AM

Klopp, Kop, and two smoking Barrels. All aboard the hype train!

CHOOO! CHOOO! Mutha'fuckas!

YmeX1LE.jpg?1

Harry Palmr · 07-10-2015 10:29AM

Good post here on redcafe (yes really - its actually got some very good posters) by a Dortmund fan - worth looking at other posts by that fella.

Dickerty · 07-10-2015 10:29AM

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Jasus I'm away with the fairies, I just read the same page twice (thanks boards' unique instant replay service) and didn't realise until I tried to thank a post twice.

Senility...:D

Streetwalker · 07-10-2015 10:33AM

punk_one82 wrote: »

The Dortmund fans are the greatest fans on earth in my opinion.

Agree with this. As a Liverpool supporter i was slightly embarrassed to hear some no mark on the radio yesterday commenting on the Klopp situation remarking that he'll feel at home at Anfield due to the similar levels of support. He mustn't have been to Anfield the last few years. Bar the odd game it's more akin to a graveyard than the Westfalenstadion.

Make no mistake if Klopp is coming it's for the money and the challenge and not the incredible support of the fans.

Dickerty · 07-10-2015 10:38AM

Streetwalker wrote: »

Agree with this. As a Liverpool supporter i was slightly embarrassed to hear some no mark on the radio yesterday commenting on the Klopp situation remarking that he'll feel at home at Anfield due to the similar levels of support. He mustn't have been to Anfield the last few years. Bar the odd game it's more akin to a graveyard than the Westfalenstadion.

But that's fixable. The passion and love of the team is there, the stadium will always be full for all sorts of fixtures, they just need a reason to get excited.
I doubt there was an graveyard comparisons in the 13/14 run-in...

Mr.H · 07-10-2015 10:40AM

Kirby wrote: »

This has been postulated before and the answer is "not a lot would change".

The money he has sunk into the club has been classified as a gift so in the event he walked away, he isnt legally entitled to any of it back. More over, Chelsea have moved from being reliant on him to a model of self sustainability which their accounts of the last few years will attest to. And they've done it without the sly "sponsorship" money that Etihad/City owners used. Their spending has slowed down even with the tv money while most clubs have increased theirs. That may point to their lacklustre recruitment in the summer and poor season so far. A stale squad.

It's a moot point anyway as he's been there long enough to prove he isnt a flash in the pan and is there for the long haul. If he was to sell, another foreign owner would pick up the club quickly. They have assets and a brand that they didnt have a decade ago.

But your missing my point

Yea I agree that its "a gift". I wont debate the legalities regarding this because if H&G thought they had a case against Liverpool for selling without their consent then anything can happen.

My point is if Roman wanted to leave Chelsea he would want his money back.................. I am not saying he will want to recall any gift (maybe he would try maybe he wouldnt). What I am saying is he would certainly be adding on that "gift" value to the price of the club. This would leave potential new owners owing money if they seen the United model as a good idea (which is my fear for us if we sell).

Chelsea have done well to become sustainable without Roman but their marginal profit last year was due to them not actually buying anyone the season before............... Chelsea are still reliant on Roman and their wage bill is what is crippling them. They are getting there and I dont dispute that but if Roman walked away in the morning they certainly wouldnt see no affect

BUT this aint a topic that we need to get into on a liverpool thread

punk_one82 · 07-10-2015 10:43AM

Mr.H wrote: »

Fair enough I apologise if I am labelling you the wrong way

I just think you are talking Dortmund down a little considering they have only missed out on the knockouts once in the last 5 years.

They are not household names here but in Germany Dortmund are a bid deal. They would be on par with Bayern in terms of domestic support

I was talking about when Klopp was in charge of Dortmund and they were having a lot of success and new fans were getting on board. Dortmund are a big name and have been for a long time, but when Klopp took over they were not one of the currently big clubs in Europe.

I understand where you're coming from about clubs with successful pasts being big in your eyes but current big clubs to me are the ones who for the recent past have been amongst the best in Europe. Dortmund definitely were not one of those teams when Klopp joined.

K-9 · 07-10-2015 10:44AM

Mr.H wrote: »

Fair enough I apologise if I am labelling you the wrong way

I just think you are talking Dortmund down a little considering they have only missed out on the knockouts once in the last 5 years.

They are not household names here but in Germany Dortmund are a bid deal. They would be on par with Bayern in terms of domestic support

Exactly.

The definition is so tight by some there's only 4 or 5 big clubs in Europe which is ridiculous.

Dortmund are a big club, recognisable Europe wide, same as Liverpool, Inter, Benfica, clubs like that. They'll go through lean times, but that would still be Europa Cup football and finishing high enough in their leagues.

There'd be a few ways of looking at it for me, City, PSG, Chelsea, clubs like us above, regular CL teams like Arsenal and then the huge teams.

LuckyLloyd · 07-10-2015 10:52AM

MD1990 wrote: »

Lol they had 80,000 attendances back in 07/08 when they were fighting relegation.You don't have a clue what you are talking about. It was often remarked how the fans stood by the team & Klopp last year & how it showed Dortmund fans were different. But you probably prefer the Real fans who like to boo any player who isn't playing well. They are the supporters I dislike.

I most certainly was not talking about the actual Dortmund fanbase when indicating a distaste for the swell of support that surrounded them for a ~2 year period. They are rightly known for their loyalty and fanaticism.

not yet · 07-10-2015 10:59AM

whatawaster wrote: »

So my sources are telling me

My sources from beyond the grave are telling me....

Klopp will be a raving success at Liverpool, and will be in our top 5 Managers of all time.

Dat ist good ya..

OwaynOTT · 07-10-2015 10:59AM

I would say Liverpool are about this big (holds hands apart as wide as they go)Mae are Utd, Munich et al, Dortmund a big club too but not quite as big(hands held apart maybe a hands width smaller), along with Athletico and the likes and then you have the new money clubs, those brash vulgar upstarts and they are really only this big (shiws distance between thumb and index finger). Then there your Spurs, Aresnals and Evertons further down again.

That's a fairly scientific, quantitative approach with the principles of positivism and empiricism at its core.
Really can't see how one can dispute or refute that.

Now the difference between top top and toppity top top is more difficult to quantify hi all I know for sure is one shouldn't run from the knees or from a standing start.

MD1990 · 07-10-2015 11:00AM

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

I most certainly was not talking about the actual Dortmund fanbase when indicating a distaste for the swell of support that surrounded them for a ~2 year period. They are rightly known for their loyalty and fanaticism.

Ok fair enough. Not sure why u would detest there fairweather fans in particular though. It happens with teams who are underdogs though like Atletico in 2014. Do u dislike Ireland's fariweather support in Rugby or when we get to a major finals like Euro 2012?

Streetwalker · 07-10-2015 11:00AM

Dickerty wrote: »

But that's fixable. The passion and love of the team is there, the stadium will always be full for all sorts of fixtures, they just need a reason to get excited.
I doubt there was an graveyard comparisons in the 13/14 run-in...

The Dortmund fans sang about and supported Klopp right through the hard times, that's proper support. Anyone can support a team when they are winning as we did in the 13/14 run in. Anfield suffers from the same problem all the big teams suffer from and that's a lack of atmosphere and willingness to get behind the team when the chips are down,

Anyway I'm going to be very happy if he does end up with us because I think his passion for the game will be infectious and lift the whole club along with his obvious talents as a manager.

Lovely Bloke · 07-10-2015 11:02AM

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

I most certainly was not talking about the actual Dortmund fanbase when indicating a distaste for the swell of support that surrounded them for a ~2 year period. They are rightly known for their loyalty and fanaticism.

you were talking about non-Dortmunders who thought they were cool when they got broadband and could list names of cool sounding players and say how good or bad they were because it was a foreign league.

Some of them even named their online personas after those players.

Still do in fact.

brevity · 07-10-2015 11:08AM

Shots fired!

brevity · 07-10-2015 11:10AM

https://twitter.com/AnfieldHQ/status/651514285072498688

Christian Benteke is a player whom Klopp considered signing for Borussia Dortmund in the summer of 2013, #lfc (Dom King)

I'd say he doesn't mind having Sahko and Firmino on the books either.

Knex* · 07-10-2015 11:11AM

OwaynOTT wrote: »

I would say Liverpool are about this big (holds hands apart as wide as they go)Mae are Utd, Munich et al, Dortmund a big club too but not quite as big(hands held apart maybe a hands width smaller), along with Athletico and the likes and then you have the new money clubs, those brash vulgar upstarts and they are really only this big (shiws distance between thumb and index finger). Then there your Spurs, Aresnals and Evertons further down again.

That's a fairly scientific, quantitative approach with the principles of positivism and empiricism at its core.
Really can't see how one can dispute or refute that.

Now the difference between top top and toppity top top is more difficult to quantify hi all I know for sure is one shouldn't run from the knees or from a standing start.

How's the hand anyway?

The painkillers are obviously good.

Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2015/16 (*EVERYONE READ MOD POST in OP)

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