Efficiency gained from employing labour.

cute geoge wrote: »

Is not there something seriously wrong when a farmer with 130 cows has to justify to pay one labour wage
Imo dairy farmers better take stock of where they are going ,80 cows is more then enough for any man to manage .
Sometimes i find it enough to manage 50 in an unmodernised setup
How many farmers sons are going to follow there fathers in to a life of slavery can anyone answer that?

Yes there is something seriously wrong, but that unfortunately is the way the game is going.
As someone said to me recently, 100 is the new "60 cows" and 200 is the new "100 cows", and I think it's absolutely true.

Greengrass1 wrote: »

I see myself with a better lifestyle when we hit 140 which is prob 3 yrs away or maybe longer who knows.
Should have a better set up ie bigger parlour and cubicles for all.
I haven't even looked to get someone but I'd say in the morning if I was I could think of 4 ppl off top of my head that would be good to work.

Maybe I'm deluded???

Your not the only one. I thinking seventy to eighty cows would give me a decent living but with the costs in farming and living costs would i be better off with just a job earning 30 to 40k.

Very interesting thread Milked out! I can stock the milking block here to 130/140 cows without too much sweat moving down the line, but where do I draw the line? Will be up to 100 cows this spring growing organically, but giving serious consideration to picking up about 15heifers, given the low price of them, good cull cow price, and our high enough empty rate. However it would leave me with a overlap period in the spring where I'll probably end up with 110+ cows, plus the 40 or so replacements over the spring. I do most the stock work here, but my dad is still an invaluable help, especially if there is a problem when I'm away etc. Almost all machinery work is contracted out, excluding winter feeding and fert spreading (both done by my dad).

Anyways we've managed without too much sweat the last 2years at the 80-90cow mark, if anything the 90cows this year was easier than 80 last year, with a better calving routine this year. However how far I can comfortable go is the big question? I'm lucky enough to have afew very reliable local relief milkers, who would know my parlour and setup well, and I've no problems calling any of them up and letting them on with it whenever needs be. So I'm feeling comfortable enough about pushing on with the few extra heifers if I manage to purchase the correct stock for the right price. Putting in the 14unit parlour this year means its only 20mins extra work in the parlour.

The one change I would give serious consideration to is getting in one of my relief milkers for every single evening milking while the heifers are calving, I would only bother milking the heifers in the evening (just run them through the parlour in the morning, to get comfy with the parlour), this is as much because training in heifers is an utter pet hate of mine ha. If I had to do this for a solid month, it would cost something around 1100e, money well spend if it results in the heifers getting settled in better and faster to the parlour.

Dawggone wrote: »

He's doing the industry a great service Bullocks. Mr. o Leary will be proud, as am I.

I bet . Its woegus carry on but my point is about the references , alot of young lads are doing this so you would want a reference on headed paper with a land line number you can ring and be sure it is a genuine previous employer you're talking to

Just putting this out there, we had an irish dairy adviser over as part of a discussion group was chatting to him about the best way of setting up, he was saying the most profitable dairy farmers on his books were either 100 cow farms with family labour or 250 + with hired in labour thought it was an interesting statistic

whelan2 wrote: »

I had a lad for a 3 day week for a while, would this be an option?

Was at a farm walk recently (down your country Frazz), chap with 130ish cows, had a lad in 3days a week, and the other 3days a week yourman worked on his brothers farm. Seemed to work perfect for them both. In the busy spring time the farmer hires FRS etc for another 3days a week.

Going back to milked out's original question on extra labour, I was probably wrong in saying he shouldn't need an extra labour unit at those numbers. I've just realised he's in winter milk so there's a fair workload all yr round.
Every farm is different, with development stage being a critical difference between farms. I know at the stage I'm at still rising cow numbers and in the middle of building sheds, reclaiming/draining land, roadways, water etc which takes up a lot of my income.
If another farm has this work done and is established with just reseeding and maintenance to do every yr then they would be in a much stronger position to take on labour both from a lifestyle and tax point of view.
And to answer ur first question, yes a farm does become more efficient with extra labour imo

Calved 160 here last spring, by and large on my own. Spring was busy, but had a guy come in for 2hrs x 3 days a week. His job was bedding/cleaning out calving & calf sheds. And cleaning and liming cubicles. Nothing else.
The same guy has the bulling heifers on contract and does every 2nd weekend from May on. The weekend he's on he does Thursday evening to Sunday evening, 7 milkings. If there's a backlog of jobs I use the Thur& Fri to catch up.(usually up to the end of June this is the case). Otherwise I've the 3&1/2 days off. (Usually from July on). Person from FRs comes in once every fortnight to pressure wash from April to July and occasionally after that. I do my own slurry spreading and fert all year round. Spring is very busy up to 1st cut, but after that I couldn't justify a full time person around the place.
Labour is costing me just over €10k. I suppose I could justify a full time labour unit, but for the moment any money saved on labour is going into improving facilities. ( last year made calving shed alot simpler, this year hope to double the size of the calf shed and put in auto calf feeder, a lot of work already done on paddocks and Parlour, just maintained there.).
Relief guy very good, is well paid and is at the other end of the phone if something goes wrong. I'm trying to set up the place that if I'm not around who ever comes in can easily look after the place. Parlour is well automated, good drafting facilities, all fencing right, roadway to every paddock in the place, calf rearing will be well setup next year all going well.
Hoping to up the cow numbers 15% next spring without any major increase in labour costs. If I get to 200 the plan is to have 2 people trained to milk and know the system , but with only one ever on at a time. And me around the yard
At this stage for me 25 or 30k is a lot to have going out on wages. The system I'm thinking is ~€10-12k on wages. The saved ~€20k/yr for the next couple of years would do an awful lot for the setup here. It's not going to cost a big amount to get the place finished off the way I want it at this stage. Try to keep things simple and low cost, But a few quid on facilities and gear isn't dead money. At a certain point there's a good Roi on it.

Deepsouthwest wrote: »

Yes there is something seriously wrong, but that unfortunately is the way the game is going.
As someone said to me recently, 100 is the new "60 cows" and 200 is the new "100 cows", and I think it's absolutely true.

not disagreeing with your statement but how further on are you if you hire someone. I think people are generally thinking 130/140 cows is what one man can cope with, that's depending on contractors and possibly a hand in spring and top notch facilities so why should I milk an extra fifty cows to pay for someone to help me do what I was doing anyway. if you get my drift. fair enough if you go over the 200 cow mark, but I don't see the point in a one man system going over this mark. different if your in a partnership or whatever. plenty of friends of mine are/were self employed during the boom, lads often say they were better off hoping in the van and only worrying about themselves. that the worst thing they did was hire a few lads. I hope my point is coming across.

einn32 wrote: »

I think you are better off investing in facilities/ technology and farm services than a full time labour unit to increase efficiency at that size. One man should be able to do that number with labour when required I think. You can contract out certain jobs when the squeeze is on.

Plus from reading on here and from my limited experience it can be hard to find not only good workers but people who are interested in furthering the business. This works both ways as it can be difficult to find farms to work on where you are respected as a person!

Certainly what I'm doing here as when I reach 110 cows I certainly won't be able to afford a labour unit ,just some relief milking and a guy 1/2 days during busy spring .investement in grazing structure and soil a given but aiming to have most jobs around yard a 1 man show ,decent parlour ,sheds ,yard layout and do as little machinery work as possible