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DCM 2015: Mentored Novices Thread

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,272 ✭✭✭Dubgal72


    I had planned some taper time talk for next week but from a few posts above, now seems as good a time as any to get the ball rolling.

    Have a look at these two posts for some general background. I'll get around to something more specific to us novices later.


    http://www.runnersworld.com/for-beginners-only/how-to-taper-correctly

    http://www.runnersworld.com/race-training/why-you-should-taper-before-a-marathon


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,386 ✭✭✭diego_b


    Dubgal72 wrote: »
    I can completely understand all the mixed emotions flying around inside you right now diego. Look, you've been very sensible about this and are taking all the right steps. It sounds like you are in good hands and that both you and your physio will do everything to get you to the start line.
    It is a sad fact that marathon training can - and will - expose any and every weakness either during the training cycle or on the day.
    Would pool running be suitable too?
    In a way, your timing is not bad. You've done the bulk of the work and a rest/reduction now will still give you plenty of time to get your plates spinning at the right intensity again during the three weeks of taper.

    Thanks, I am trying to think like that and I acted within the first week of feeling this issue so hoping I get some reward for trying to be sensible with this stuff. Certainly feeling it on the emotions front as it has been a big effort to do this but I have enjoyed the challenge and don't want to falter.
    I also have not touched the black arts of pain killers or anything like that yet. I do believe pain to be there for a reason and not to be masked so don't want to do anything like that.

    The physio really does know his stuff from talking to him and given his own experience (a very well noted runner in my area) he is giving me running specific advice which I find crucial for this.
    I think given how late in the day it is that he's going to give me every chance to get through it, as I was saying before here and to him that I think if I can feel as I did last Sat for the 20 miler then I can get through it. It's more so if it gets worse then we have a more serious problem. I am happy if needs be to take a break for a few days/week....hoping that it won't impact me at this point with a loss of fitness. I am not training to win it or to be honest really care to much about time now but to run it.
    He did mention pool running briefly but as I have an exercise bike at home suggesting to try that with a few caveats to ensure knee tracking correctly.

    I will be cutting down my long run at the weekend as well (if I can do it) as I've had two weeks now where my percentages have been off. He is hoping that I can do more on the mid week runs that I do if the knee is up for it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,776 ✭✭✭This Fat Girl Runs


    Phoebas wrote: »
    It's not really a full three week taper. On both plans next week has the lsr dropping quite a bit, but midweek not so much (20m to 17m on the HH1, boards plan remains at 15m); for me it's not going to feel like a taper until lsr day.

    I think I'm going to find the discipline of the taper difficult 'though. There's some '2m easy' runs it it. So, I'm going to get motivated to go out, get changed into my running gear, and afterwards do some stretches, have a shower and get dressed again all for a <20 minute run. I know I'm going to be very tempted to extend it out (but I won't - promise :)).

    True enough. This week's long run is 18, next week is 15 with the usual midweek mileage followed by a 10 mile LSR the week after that. So yes, you have a point.

    These ultra guys were trying to get me to ditch the 10 mile for a 15 mile. :rolleyes:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,776 ✭✭✭This Fat Girl Runs


    Dubgal72 wrote: »
    I had planned some taper time talk for next week but from a few posts above, now seems as good a time as any to get the ball rolling.

    Have a look at these two posts for some general background. I'll get around to something more specific to us novices later.


    http://www.runnersworld.com/for-beginners-only/how-to-taper-correctly

    http://www.runnersworld.com/race-training/why-you-should-taper-before-a-marathon

    I jumped the gun...didn't I? Oops! I'm always doing that. Sorry! But thanks for the info! :D


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,413 ✭✭✭Toulouse


    Dubgal72 wrote: »
    I had planned some taper time talk for next week but from a few posts above, now seems as good a time as any to get the ball rolling.

    Have a look at these two posts for some general background. I'll get around to something more specific to us novices later.


    http://www.runnersworld.com/for-beginners-only/how-to-taper-correctly

    http://www.runnersworld.com/race-training/why-you-should-taper-before-a-marathon

    Noooooooooooooooooooooo!

    Am I the only one feeling really anxious about taper?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,921 ✭✭✭Kennyg71


    Toulouse wrote: »
    Noooooooooooooooooooooo!

    Am I the only one feeling really anxious about taper?

    I am looking forward it, all mid week runs at moment up at
    5.30 so nice little lie on will be great. We still have 2 x 20 & 1 x12
    Mile LSR on plan so tapper quite gradual, only 9 miles over 3 days
    In Last week but still 3 days running to keep ticking over.

    Then Marathon expo to look forward to.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,658 ✭✭✭donutheadhomer


    Toulouse wrote: »
    Noooooooooooooooooooooo!

    Am I the only one feeling really anxious about taper?

    I haven't done a 20 mile yet. I'm dreading it on Saturday. Did ten yesterday and blistered. Where has all my energy gone


  • Posts: 53,068 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I can't believe how much I've missed :eek:

    Boss Lady - you poor feckin thing. Hope you're feeling better after your medical emergency :(

    I was a little demented over the weekend, I did some work on a turbo trainer at home on Saturday. Saturday night I was twitchy and irritable and wide awake because I clearly had way too much unused energy. Went to a pool on Sunday to "aqua jog". Yeh. The less said about that the better.

    Monday morning, was all packed ready and set for my LSR that afternoon/evening. Was due to finish work at 3.30 and set off hoping that my shin would hold out and that I would be back on track.

    Got to work, and within an hour or so I was puking (sorry), felt really really weak. My colleague was telling me to go home that I looked sh*t but I decided to ride it out, totally focused on my long run. I took some motilium and my tummy started to settle. Then the hunger hit and I couldn't eat enough food. I was absolutely starving. Last ate just after 2pm but ended up in work until 5.30 :rolleyes:

    Set out on my merry little way, was keeping the run flat on purpose, so ran from sandycove out to ringsend and back, including the two piers in DL. Noticed instantly that my HR was way higher than it should be, 4km in I got a call from work (I was on call), so had to stop and call back and was beside my Dad's job so went in for a wee chat for five minutes for him before setting off again, halfway down west pier and HR was way up. I stopped again and thought about whether or not I should continue, on the basis that I might actually be ill and could make myself sicker. Of course I kept going :rolleyes: An hour in and I was beginning my Marathon HR intervals, pace wise I was super slow but my HR was pushing past my LT range so I decided to knock the MHR intervals on the head and just run easy. Was stopped again at merrion gates as the gates were down, stretched out a bit and continued on. Although I wasn't feeling great, I was going OK til about 100 minutes in when I really began to fade - I had taken a nakd bar with me so took that with some water. Had a chat with myself that I was fine and all I had to do now was run back to the car - only 8 miles away!!!! Hit 2 hours and bam, was done. Thought about the thread, thought about how muscle fatigue is normal, tried to convince myself that I was ok, and in the end I made a deal with myself to walk for 1 minute. Worst thing I could have done, tried running again but 5 minutes more and I had to walk again. This time though, my calf muscles completely seized up - I mean, I let a yelp and was pretty much crying begging the pain away. I walked for a while and ended up hailoing a cab back to my car.

    Afterward I felt like I had run the marathon (only covered 11 miles in the 2 hours), that feeling like you've been hit by a bus and had a banging headache.

    So that was fairly crap!

    I hadn't uploaded my run, nor emailed my trainer so when I met him last night I told him the run was a total disaster, half expecting him to say "would you consider doing a marathon later than Dublin", but he didn't. He said not to worry at all about it, I've done a huge amount of groundwork over the last few weeks and my endurance has significantly improved. I most likely had something in my system, coupled with the fact I had done the turbo trainer that I'm not used to and the fact I hadn't run in a few days because of injury thingy, that I'm still going the right direction despite the bad run.

    So. Here I am, registered now for DCM2015. Bricking it after last night's lecture but sure lookit, I'll get to the start line on the day and after that who knows :)

    Easy run tonight, and tomorrow, and LSR Saturday. Hopefully all goes well.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,015 ✭✭✭jake1970


    Bez Bing wrote: »
    I would actually argue that the P&D taper is really only 2 weeks.
    I'm currently following the P&D 50m plan and his first taper week is still 45m with a 10K race followed by a 16m Long run.

    Even the second "taper" week has a tasty VO2Max session of 8m w 3X1200 @ 5k pace.

    Even with the drop in mileage during the taper the P&D plan has some nice workouts just to keep you ticking over.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,508 ✭✭✭ratracer


    This day last week I ran a 32km LSR. The last 3-4 km were torture, more mentally than physically though, and since them I've only ran twice, covering a miserable 16km. I've been very negative about running this week, but tomorrow I'm gonna do the same LSR route, but with more 'hydration stations' along the way. I said here last week that I thought my downfall was not having enough water, hopefully I'll be reporting back positive reports tomorrow evening!


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,658 ✭✭✭donutheadhomer


    ratracer wrote: »
    This day last week I ran a 32km LSR. The last 3-4 km were torture, more mentally than physically though, and since them I've only ran twice, covering a miserable 16km. I've been very negative about running this week, but tomorrow I'm gonna do the same LSR route, but with more 'hydration stations' along the way. I said here last week that I thought my downfall was not having enough water, hopefully I'll be reporting back positive reports tomorrow evening!

    recovery after that takes a fair bit of time too. did 18.5miles last saturday and still wrecked today.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,371 ✭✭✭Phoebas


    These ultra guys were trying to get me to ditch the 10 mile for a 15 mile. :rolleyes:
    I've had all kinds of crazy advice from people over the past few months; telling me stuff like I should do some 26 miles runs before I attempt the marathon etc.
    I've even had bad advice from people who are far more experienced and better runners that I am, and it's all well intentioned, but I think they're really telling me stuff that might be right for them, as if that automatically makes it right for me too.

    That's why this thread is so great. Lots of people with something in common i.e. all novices attempting a first marathon and mentors who know what plan I'm following and where I am on it and are willing to offer much more relevant advice.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,119 ✭✭✭Mrs Mc


    conor_mc wrote: »
    Consider yourself lucky, the comment in my house this morning was that I was starting to look like a lollipop man.... as in, my head's getting too big for my body....!! :mad: :)

    That's a new one !!!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,119 ✭✭✭Mrs Mc


    Toulouse wrote: »
    Noooooooooooooooooooooo!

    Am I the only one feeling really anxious about taper?

    I'm dying for it all I seem to do these days is run work eat and sleep :(


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,386 ✭✭✭diego_b


    Another aborted run right after half a mile...knew starting it that there was no point as wasn't right, exercise bike now instead...err


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,324 ✭✭✭chrislad


    Mrs Mc wrote: »
    I'm dying for it all I seem to do these days is run work eat and sleep :(

    I agree 110%

    I can't wait for the taper to start. It'll be nice not to have every evening consumed by it!

    Just in from my 7 mile run - 1m w/u, 5m PMP, 1m c/d.

    1 10:41 /mi
    2 10:09 /mi
    3 10:03 /mi
    4 9:52 /mi
    5 9:50 /mi
    6 9:52 /mi
    7 10:46 /mi

    Little bit faster than PMP of 10:18 but felt comfortable mainly. I had a bit of tightness on the front left of my left leg, same as yesterday. It went after 2.5 miles yesterday and about 2 miles today. It tends to get like this for a run or three after a trip of the physio. Not really sure what to think about it. It's not painful, more uncomfortable. I'll bring it up with my visit in a fortnight.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,776 ✭✭✭This Fat Girl Runs


    Just in from 6 miles. Went well considering the congestion and cough.

    Mile 1 15.23 warm up
    Mile 2 13.57
    Mile 3 13.33
    Mile 4 13.39
    Mile 5 13.31
    Mile 6 14.07 half hard/half cool down

    Really pleased with the run. Didn't feel like it was a struggle.

    Was tempted to get ice cream afterwards for my throat but didn't cave and got a watermelon instead. Will have that after my usual post run dinner.

    I'm kind of looking forward to tapering too. Will feel like a holiday  but on the other hand I'm feeling like my training is finally clicking and I don't want to lose that feeling!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 507 ✭✭✭runnerholic


    Clearlier wrote: »
    Hi runnerholic,

    You're going to need to reconcile the two statements above to make a decision. Your training won't let lend itself to you doing yourself justice so the chances are that you will do a time well below your capabilities and run the risk of feeling devastated.

    OTOH, if you've got a long term ankle injury that's going to prevent you from ever training for a marathon properly and this is a bucket list item then you'll probably be able to finish one on the training that you've done to date. I'd recommend adopting some kind of run/walk strategy right from the very start. I know that the temptation will be to run to halfway or so and then start the walking sections but to do your best on limited training you're much better off adopting it right from the start. One potential strategy is to walk straight after the water stations, take a minute to have a drink or take some kind of food. There's a guy called Jeff Galloway who strongly advocates run/walking. This is a brief article on why.

    You've mentioned a LSR pace of 5:25min/km. Have you run any races recently to give you an idea of a target time?

    Thank you so much for the advice Clearlier.
    I saw my physio this morning and he said that where I am now is as good a place as I probably will ever get to in order to run a marathon so I have decided to go for it. I have not raced in ages because of the injury but I have a PB of 1.38.49 for a half marathon a 41.39 10k and a 19.58 5k.
    I agree my training has been limited but I have thrown in a few sessions on the bike to compensate. Onwards and upwards :)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 111 ✭✭Emsy 1


    Phoebas wrote: »
    It's not really a full three week taper. On both plans next week has the lsr dropping quite a bit, but midweek not so much (20m to 17m on the HH1, boards plan remains at 15m); for me it's not going to feel like a taper until lsr day.

    I think I'm going to find the discipline of the taper difficult 'though. There's some '2m easy' runs it it. So, I'm going to get motivated to go out, get changed into my running gear, and afterwards do some stretches, have a shower and get dressed again all for a <20 minute run. I know I'm going to be very tempted to extend it out (but I won't - promise :)).

    Is HH1 not 12 miles after the 20 or have I that wrong?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 361 ✭✭mobfromcork


    Folks,

    Back running for the last two nights after a 9/10 day break to recover from a cold/throat infection. Was on antibiotics for 5 days which finished on Monday morning. Last night's 5 mile was fairly unpleasant with a dodgy stomach most of the way around. Tonight's 5 miles at PMP had me under pressure! I did a 10 mile at PMP a few weeks ago (7.50 pace) at an average heart rate of 164. There were a few long drags which pulled the average up a bit. I felt good and in control the whole way around. Tonight's 5 mile (7.43 pace which I realise is a small bit too fast) had me at an average of 169 bpm but from mile 2 onwards was mainly between 172 and 180 due to an easy downhill first mile. Most of the rest was flat enough. I really felt unfit/crap/heavy on the run despite trying to run tall.

    I wouldn't have thought your fitness could slide so much in 2 weeks or maybe I'm still under the weather a bit more than I think. There was no way I could have kept that pace up for another 5 miles, never mind another 21! I am reluctant to miss more training runs but don't want to overdo it either and not recover fully. Bit of a Catch 22. Am I better to do the runs more slowly for the next few days? Not run? I missed a 20 mile last weekend and don't want to miss another long run this weekend. My normal long run pace is around 8.45 per mile. Should I slow this weekend's LSR down to a 9.15 or would it negatively affect my times on the day seeing as it's the last long, long run before DCM?
    Any advice appreciated.

    Thanks

    Mark


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,119 ✭✭✭Mrs Mc


    Better get my post in before my technology curfew. Nearly cried this evening when I discovered I had 10 miles to do :( very busy in work this week and feeling so tired this week. So onto my trustee running buddy Mrs Kenng who very kindly to accompany me for 6 out Clontarf Coast. We chattered away and didn't feel the miles till the end of the 6 when the Achilles started to hurt. FBOT obviously knowing that I might need some support for the last 4 met me then and completed the 10. It was hard going felt it in the calves Achilles lower back and knees. I'm officially a crock. Off to stretch now and then to bed early. What an exciting life I lead !!! Avg pace 11.42 mins.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,386 ✭✭✭diego_b


    Have this question on the random running questions post but possibly someone here might know, when subbing in exercise bike sessions for running sessions. What sort of effort should they be find at? I have a heart rate monitor and the bike has one too and they agree with each other on reads. Did 50mins tonight without issue and the knee held up fine for that.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 146 ✭✭cian_r


    Hi,

    My wife as just won a free entry into this year's DCM. I bought my ticket last month - typical!

    Ping me if anyone has still to register and would like the entry coupon. No charge.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 83 ✭✭Chops1234


    Emsy 1 wrote: »
    Is HH1 not 12 miles after the 20 or have I that wrong?

    No you're right. LSR is 12 miles the week after. The midweek runs total 17 miles (down from 20 this week)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 146 ✭✭cian_r


    cian_r wrote: »
    Hi,

    My wife as just won a free entry into this year's DCM. I bought my ticket last month - typical!

    Ping me if anyone has still to register and would like the entry coupon. No charge.

    Found a taker for the voucher.

    Best of luck everyone.

    Cheers,
    Cian


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 111 ✭✭Emsy 1


    Chops1234 wrote: »
    No you're right. LSR is 12 miles the week after. The midweek runs total 17 miles (down from 20 this week)

    Gotcha :)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,272 ✭✭✭Dubgal72


    menoscemo wrote: »
    Sorry DG I meant to come back to this!!
    Just to say that the pacers will be running at 5% slower than MP.
    Dublin Runner is pacing the 'sub 3' group. Normally 3hr should be 6:50/mile but he will be running 7:15/mile
    Myself and Yaboya will be doing the 3:30 group. Normally that would mean 8:00/mile but we will be doing 8:25/mile.
    Mr And Mrs marthastew will be running the 4hour group to 9:40/mile (would normally be 9:09/mile)

    The organiser asks us to run slower than PMP because he doesn't want people putting their race in the roads of Athlone. We are still running 'steady' which should be faster that your normal LSR, but as a good final long run that should be fine.

    My Only advice is not to go with the 3:30 pacers if you are targeting 3:40-4hours just because you can. Similarly Don't go with the 4hour pacers if you are actually targeting 4:10+.

    The organiser of this race (Bazman on Boards) is a good example of his own philosophy. A few years ago he ran his own race as a tune up to DCM and finished 2nd (or 3rd?) having ran the race at approxiately 2:25-2:30 Marathon pace. In DCM itself he ran 2:18 and finished leading Irishman, easily beating those who finished ahead of him in the 3/4.

    So the bottom line is to run it a a good hard training run but not as a race. You should still be fairly comfortable with the pace at the end.
    Just bumping this up, thanks meno :)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,272 ✭✭✭Dubgal72


    Singer wrote: »
    Unrelated question: When I registered for the marathon I put myself in Wave 2. I guess my planned time would have me just about in Wave 1 now. Is there any real advantage to moving up to Wave 1? Would getting up to near the front of Wave 2 be a bit better congestion-wise? Then again, it might be nice to have the option of starting with the 3:40 pacers. Argh, decisions.

    When do have to let the organisers know? Y'see this is the plan for the three week taper:

    T-3 the importance of taper and why we taper (starting this week actually)
    T-2 target time: why a range of targets and factors which will affect your target choice for the day
    T-1 the day itself: what to expect.

    These are flexible though, we have wiggle room :) I'd be inclined to recommend a Wave 1 start for you though so no harm enquiring now about the mechanics of changing.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 44 betty swollox


    Hey all

    Some good and bad news...

    Good news is that the dreaded manflu is gone and I'm back running after doing nothing for over a week. Took dubgals advised and tried everything to clear however it got to a point where I just had to say no and right the week off. Started back on Monday and had 2 good runs so far this week. Looking forward to a long run this weekend (18 or 20 miles)

    Bad news is I had a bad incident whilst out running last night, firstly had a bottle thrown at me which just clipped my heals followed by receiving some heavy verbal abuse by 2 teenagers on bikes for about half a mile (argh..) luckily I didn't react and just laughed it off when really inside I wanted to deck them both.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,371 ✭✭✭Phoebas


    Emsy 1 wrote: »
    Is HH1 not 12 miles after the 20 or have I that wrong?
    The lsr goes from 20 miles to 12, but the midweek runs this week total 20 miles (5+10+5) and next week they only drop to 17 miles (5+8+4).

    So, what I'm getting at is the taper doesn't really kick in until the end of next week.


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