Why a British withdrawal from the EU could be beneficial to Ireland

realitykeeper · 14-09-2015 5:25am #1

Many retailers in Ireland are foreign owned and of those, the British retailers are by far the most prevalent. Unlike other multinationals, foreign retailers do not bring money into the country because their revenue source is from within the domestic Irish economy. So, these foreign retailers are a net liability and the Irish economy is better off without them.

If Britain leaves the EU, they will no longer have the protection of the European courts and the Irish revenue can hike taxes on British retailers in order to subsidize tax cuts for small local retailers and this will in turn encourage consumers back to the city/town centers. The result: Swiss style quaintness from Dublin City center to the crossroads of Ballymackey. Furthermore, the city center is generally more accessible (because of its centrality) and this in turn will encourage the use of the bicycle over the car.

With a little thought and imagination, one will find many more benefits to a UK withdrawal from the EU. Unfortunately, our Taoiseach Enda Kenny lacks the required imagination. Lets face it, he only became leader because the rest of his party were obliterated in a former election.

This snipe at Kenny, and my ability to see the benefits of life free of British apron strings should not be interpreted as sinn feinism. I am a right wing capitalist - a fact that sets me firmly apart not only from Sinn Fein but also Fine Gael, Fianna Fail and all such left wing bolshevic entities.

Given Kenny`s aforementioned lack of imagination (a prerequisite in any natural leader), I invite suggestions on how else Ireland could benefit from a withdrawal of Britain from the EU.

Calibos · 14-09-2015 9:32am

Ironic username!

You want to start a Trade war over Tescos!?!?

jimmycrackcorm · 14-09-2015 9:54pm

realitykeeper wrote:

With a little thought and imagination, one will find many more benefits to a UK withdrawal from the EU. Unfortunately, our Taoiseach Enda Kenny lacks the required imagination. Lets face it, he only became leader because the rest of his party were obliterated in a former election.

Thankfully Kenny doesn't have your imagination given the UK's prominence as a trading partner. There's a little more to trade than Tescos. If one was to follow your argument to its logical conclusion then we'd totally benefit from the rest of the EU also leaving.

Perhaps its a good thing Kenny doesn't have such an active imagination.

Serjeant Buzfuz · 14-09-2015 11:16pm

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Thankfully Kenny doesn't have your imagination given the UK's prominence as a trading partner. There's a little more to trade than Tescos. If one was to follow your argument to its logical conclusion then we'd totally benefit from the rest of the EU also leaving.

Perhaps its a good thing Kenny doesn't have such an active imagination.

If he only had a brain!

imitation · 14-09-2015 11:23pm

I'm sure if the economy of our biggest trading partner tanked, those losses would easily be offset by more dunnes and less tescos.

There is a flaw in your plan though, the german supermarkets could fill the vacuum and spirit all our money away to Germany, and with their penchant for saving we will never see a penny back.

murphaph · 15-09-2015 11:26am

realitykeeper wrote: »

If Britain leaves the EU, they will no longer have the protection of the European courts and the Irish revenue can hike taxes on British retailers....

Do you think the British government would just ignore our tariffs or perhaps say, introduce similar tariffs on all Irish produced products sold in the UK? We don't even have to imagine what that would be like for Ireland because deValera (the gimp) tried it already and it was an unmitigated disaster.

realitykeeper · 16-09-2015 1:47am

murphaph wrote: »

Do you think the British government would just ignore our tariffs or perhaps say, introduce similar tariffs on all Irish produced products sold in the UK? We don't even have to imagine what that would be like for Ireland because deValera (the gimp) tried it already and it was an unmitigated disaster.

The British would most likely retaliate in kind, ie increase tax on Irish retailers in the UK. That would be fair enough. They would probably not want to up the anti with a full trade war. If they did, the outcome would probably be very different to de Valers`s trade war for several reasons. For one thing, Devs trade war was more to do with not selling, rather than not buying from the UK and vice versa i.e. cattle vs coal.

Nowadays, Ireland has alternatives because of the EU. If Tesco were taxed in Ireland, it would seem to me that Dunnes and Supervalue would be the main beneficiaries because they offer a similar product but even if the full benefit went to Lidl and Aldi, at least the lower costs would ensure less money is lost to foreign retailers.

Finally, if the UK want to leave the EU, they will do so whether Ireland want them to leave or not. Not wanting them to leave will not prevent them from leaving, so it is sensible to accept their decision and then look to make the most of the new reality.

Villa05 · 16-09-2015 7:36am

Sounds like someone wants protectionism back for the irish retailers so that we can have a return to royally ripping off the irish consumer.

Self claimed capitalist does not like competition

murphaph · 16-09-2015 12:48pm

realitykeeper wrote: »

If Tesco were taxed in Ireland, it would seem to me that Dunnes and Supervalue would be the main beneficiaries because they offer a similar product but even if the full benefit went to Lidl and Aldi, at least the lower costs would ensure less money is lost to foreign retailers.

You think if the Irish state effectively wiped out their main competition (Tesco) that Lidl and Aldi wouldn't increase prices to Tesco levels overnight? They'd still be cheaper than SuperValu

The UK could make our lives very difficult at the stroke of a pen. It is not a good idea to pick a fight you can't finish and we would be at the UK's mercy if we picked a fight with them. It would escalate beyond retail. It's naive to think otherwise.

Cookie_Monster · 16-09-2015 12:56pm

You do of course know that Tesco Ireland is an Irish company and is owned by a Multinational Company with shareholders throughout the world, they're not just a British company.

realitykeeper · 16-09-2015 10:06pm

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

You do of course know that Tesco Ireland is an Irish company and is owned by a Multinational Company with shareholders throughout the world, they're not just a British company.

That would be the Tesco argument also but I do not go along with it.

realitykeeper · 16-09-2015 10:38pm

murphaph wrote: »

You think if the Irish state effectively wiped out their main competition (Tesco) that Lidl and Aldi wouldn't increase prices to Tesco levels overnight? They'd still be cheaper than SuperValu

The UK could make our lives very difficult at the stroke of a pen. It is not a good idea to pick a fight you can't finish and we would be at the UK's mercy if we picked a fight with them. It would escalate beyond retail. It's naive to think otherwise.

Regarding your former point, Lidl and Aldi are cheap for a reason. If they charged more, nobody would shop there

Regarding your latter point, it could be argued that the UK have already picked a fight, they charge Irish truckers more for using their roads for example.

I think it would be unlikely (and supremely stupid) of the British to turn a simple tax on British retailers into a trade war, not least because:
1) Ireland owes them a couple of billion - not a huge amount I grant you, but a disincentive nonetheless.
2)They would need Irish trade all the more if they left Europe.
3)Irish produce could in part fill the British trade vacuum in Europe when their exports to the continent are hit with higher taxes.
4)There is no reason why Ireland could not forge closer economic ties with Russia as well as the EU partners.

realitykeeper · 16-09-2015 11:00pm

Villa05 wrote: »

Sounds like someone wants protectionism back for the irish retailers so that we can have a return to royally ripping off the irish consumer.

Self claimed capitalist does not like competition

Ireland has plenty of competition with the domestic retailers. That said Lidl and Aldi have provided a product that was not available before their arrival. The point is that foreign retailers may benefit individual consumers but they are a net drain on the economy.

Consumers are also citizens and if the economy has less, the citizen has less.

Cookie_Monster · 17-09-2015 1:39pm

realitykeeper wrote: »

That would be the Tesco argument also but I do not go along with it.

how can you not go along with it, it's fact.

purplepanda · 17-09-2015 4:17pm

realitykeeper wrote: »

I am a right wing capitalist - a fact that sets me firmly apart not only from Sinn Fein but also Fine Gael, Fianna Fail and all such left wing bolshevic entities.

So anyone who is left of your political viewpoint is bolshevik? I suggest you go back & read a history book on the Russian revolution & civil war! :pac:

A trade war with Britain has been tried before, not a good idea when a third of Ireland's imports & exports are involved. Not to mention trade with NI!

Your policies would put more Irish people into poverty than at any time in the before the last century. :mad:

Paulzx · 17-09-2015 7:29pm

How can anyone with an iota of intelligence claim that a trade war with the UK would be good for Irelands economy?

Baffling

realitykeeper · 17-09-2015 9:13pm

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

how can you not go along with it, it's fact.

It is a spin on fact.

realitykeeper · 17-09-2015 9:33pm

purplepanda wrote: »

I suggest you go back & read a history book on the Russian revolution & civil war!

I already did but what does that have to do with anything.

purplepanda wrote: »

A trade war with Britain has been tried before, not a good idea when a third of Ireland's imports & exports are involved. Not to mention trade with NI!

Why are you talking about a trade war with Britain? That is not what I advocate.

Moving on to other benefits of a British withdrawal from the EU:

1) If that were to happen, the Brits would most likely import less from the EU and this would put downward pressure on goods which Ireland imports from the EU.

2) The reason trade between Ireland and the UK is presently disproportionately high is in large part due to economic inertia. A jolt to help break that habitual dependence is to be welcomed as an opportunity with almost limitless potential.

realitykeeper · 17-09-2015 9:48pm

Paulzx wrote: »

How can anyone with an iota of intelligence claim that a trade war with the UK would be good for Irelands economy?

Baffling

Who claimed that? There is a quote facility you can use, any reason you choose not to use it?

Anyway, back to the subject at hand: benefits of a British withdrawal from the EU. Here is another one:

With Britain outside the EU, roaming charges (among many other things) are likely to be adversely affected for EU tourists to that country. Ireland could take advantage of Britain`s reduced competitiveness for EU tourists.

Paulzx · 17-09-2015 11:39pm

realitykeeper wrote: »

Anyway, back to the subject at hand: benefits of a British withdrawal from the EU. Here is another one:

With Britain outside the EU, roaming charges (among many other things) are likely to be adversely affected for EU tourists to that country. Ireland could take advantage of Britain`s reduced competitiveness for EU tourists.

Ehhhh..........except if a tourist wants to go to Britain going to Ireland doesn't really meet that need. Unless of course we build a full scale mock up of Buckingham Palace, dress Michael D up in a frock and crown and get him to wave from the balcony.

We could also disguise the Spire as Big Ben and get someone from Dublin Tourism to shout BONG, BONG every hour.

.........or maybe the tourists who want to see Britain will just go there in the first place

realitykeeper · 18-09-2015 12:11am

Paulzx wrote: »

Ehhhh..........except if a tourist wants to go to Britain going to Ireland doesn't really meet that need. Unless of course we build a full scale mock up of Buckingham Palace, dress Michael D up in a frock and crown and get him to wave from the balcony.

We could also disguise the Spire as Big Ben and get someone from Dublin Tourism to shout BONG, BONG every hour.

.........or maybe the tourists who want to see Britain will just go there in the first place

And what if they want to go to Pluto?

murphaph · 18-09-2015 8:38am

I've not once decides not to visit somewhere because of roaming charges.

realitykeeper · 18-09-2015 11:01am

murphaph wrote: »

I've not once decides not to visit somewhere because of roaming charges.

The point is it used to be just the currency exchange that made Britain less attractive. If Britain leaves the EU, there will also be a probability of higher taxes, roaming charges etc, all of which are likely to worsen as the British economy diverges from the EU. Furthermore, bored civil servants will no doubt devise layer upon layer of additional red tape to visiting/doing business with Britain.

Well, the quote the old adage: Britain`s difficulty is Ireland`s opportunity. There is another benefit for you.

Cookie_Monster · 18-09-2015 11:29am

realitykeeper wrote: »

It is a spin on fact.

how?
come on tease it out now...

Villa05 · 18-09-2015 11:50am

realitykeeper wrote:

Furthermore, bored civil servants will no doubt devise layer upon layer of additional red tape to visiting/doing business with Britain.

Out of passing interest, what is your job?

Paulzx · 18-09-2015 1:22pm

realitykeeper wrote: »

And what if they want to go to Pluto?

Is there actually a connection between Britain leaving the EU, roaming charges and Pluto?

If there is you'll have to explain it to me because I'm becoming more confused each time you post

Jim2007 · 18-09-2015 7:44pm

realitykeeper wrote: »

The point is it used to be just the currency exchange that made Britain less attractive. If Britain leaves the EU, there will also be a probability of higher taxes, roaming charges etc, all of which are likely to worsen as the British economy diverges from the EU. Furthermore, bored civil servants will no doubt devise layer upon layer of additional red tape to visiting/doing business with Britain.

Back to reality! Any agreement with UK will be between the UK and the EU as a whole - bilaterals are not allowed. So while we will have a say in it, we will not be the only voice.

realitykeeper · 18-09-2015 9:48pm

Jim2007 wrote: »

Back to reality! Any agreement with UK will be between the UK and the EU as a whole - bilaterals are not allowed. So while we will have a say in it, we will not be the only voice.

True but I see that as a good thing in the longer term. Clutching at Britain`s coat tails is a self limiting behavior. With any luck our European partners will take a dim view of Britain leaving the EU and in doing so they will make our trade with that country all the more difficult (because as you say, there are no bilaterals). Perhaps then, Ireland will broaden its outlook and see opportunities elsewhere.

In the short term, there would be difficulties if Britain were to leave the EU but I see no benefit of wailing like a bunch of banshees. There will be opportunities to be had in the new situation and the only question is whether Ireland should take advantage of those opportunities or let other EU countries take them all.

Jim2007 · 21-09-2015 10:46pm

purplepanda wrote: »

A trade war with Britain has been tried before, not a good idea when a third of Ireland's imports & exports are involved. Not to mention trade with NI!

Actually it represents about 14% - 16% of our exports defending on which stats you look at. On the other hand Ireland is the UK's fifth biggest export partner at around 5% which should be a worrying thought for a country thinking of going it alone.

Jim2007 · 21-09-2015 10:55pm

I don't expect that the UK will leave the EU, but if they did then the big winner would most likely be the financial services section. I know of a several non UK institutions that have advanced plans to move to Ireland should the UK exit and not all are looking at Dublin.

realitykeeper · 22-09-2015 12:19am

Paulzx wrote: »

I'm becoming more confused each time you post

I will dumb it down for you so.

Why a British withdrawal from the EU could be beneficial to Ireland

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