Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2015/16 (*EVERYONE READ MOD POST in OP)

5starpool · 21-09-2015 03:18PM

Playing devil's advocate on the below.

Mr.H wrote: »

I get what your saying and even I think his time is almost up. I just dont like the way people are not giving hijm credit for what he has done here.

When he took over this was the state of Liverpool

8th in the premier league

We finished 7th and 6th in 2 of his 3 seasons here.

Top scorer was Suarez with 11 goals

He scored 17 in 39 in all competitions. Last season our top scorer in all comps was Gerrard with 11 (I think).

26 players (including some youths but not including loans out) in the first team set up on the books and 13 of them where over the age of 27. In fact 7 of them were over 30.

We had players such as:
Charlie Adam
Andy Carroll
Maxi Rodríguez
Fábio Aurélio
Doni
Aquilani
Joe Cole

All at the club picking up a lot of money in wages.

We did have a lot of dross to get rid of and we did. We still have some dross to trim in terms of players who don't contribute, but at least they are younger in general.

We had no European football, our wage bill was astronomical, our average age was late 20's and We fell further behind EL challenging teams let alone the top 4. We looked tactically inept

European qualification was missed in his first season, and the games we did play (including the first season that we had already qualified for) we have been awful. We still look tactically inept for the last 13 months.

What Brendan did:
Reduced our average age to low 20's

He did. We haven't seen a lot of benefit from this though.

Brought European football

Well, see above. Not a point to be too proud of.

Gave us a title challenge that was unexpected

True, and the only reason he is still there.

Brought the best out of Suarez

We saw a phenom, but I think he would have been that player anyhow for most managers.

Reduced the wage bill by getting rid of over paid old pensioners

Indeed, that mistake was corrected.

Brought nice attacking football

For a season a bit of the prior one. Scintillating stuff going forward we haven't been able to get close to in over a year.

He had 3 full seasons so far

First season he improved on Kenny's season while fixing the mess that was left for him

Second season he gave us a title challenge that Kenny would not have

Third season he lost THE best player in the league and the second top scorer in the league. That meant we had a bad season but qualified for EL which is a pathway into the CL

The truth may well be somewhere in between, but your post is way OTT in terms of positivity for Rodgers.

citytillidie · 21-09-2015 03:25PM

Agent Coulson wrote: »

This sums up Rodgers to me.

Always next season.

https://twitter.com/JamesPearceEcho/status/558266963764707328

Ahh yes take a quote from when Liverpool were in form and people thought they could snatch top 4 and kick on from there last season.

Also Origi there is only so many spots on the sub bench and he started on Thursday night and i say he thought he would not have had to make a sub to the forward line at half time.

I say his plan was to keep two up top all game but swap the Dannies about, but injury stopped that

Mr.H · 21-09-2015 03:25PM

5starpool wrote: »

Playing devil's advocate on the below.

We finished 7th and 6th in 2 of his 3 seasons here.

He scored 17 in 39 in all competitions. Last season our top scorer in all comps was Gerrard with 11 (I think).

We did have a lot of dross to get rid of and we did. We still have some dross to trim in terms of players who don't contribute, but at least they are younger in general.

European qualification was missed in his first season, and the games we did play (including the first season that we had already qualified for) we have been awful. We still look tactically inept for the last 13 months.

He did. We haven't seen a lot of benefit from this though.

Well, see above. Not a point to be too proud of.

True, and the only reason he is still there.

We saw a phenom, but I think he would have been that player anyhow for most managers.

Indeed, that mistake was corrected.

For a season a bit of the prior one. Scintillating stuff going forward we haven't been able to get close to in over a year.

The truth may well be somewhere in between, but your post is way OTT in terms of positivity for Rodgers.

No your right with most of that.

I was trying to be a little OTT with my post to show how its all about how you "dress the facts" of what has happened.

Right now everyone is acting like Rodgers has destroyed this club. But my only ambition was to show the good he has done.

I have stated a few times that I feel very unsure of what camp I am in anymore. I would be happy for Rodgers to stay but only if things change fast. If they dont I fear I will be also hoping that we make changes and fast.

In fact I will go on record as saying, if Liverpool FC/ FSG feel that they are unsure of Rodgers and are not 100% behind him right now then they should just do it now and replace him. Or at least start looking for his replacement and interview for the job immediately.

Alonso77 · 21-09-2015 03:28PM

citytillidie wrote: »

Ahh yes take a quote from when Liverpool were in form and people thought they could snatch top 4 and kick on from there last season.

Also Origi there is only so many spots on the sub bench and he started on Thursday night and i say he thought he would not have had to make a sub to the forward line at half time.

I say his plan was to keep two up top all game but swap the Dannies about, but injury stopped that

Why say it at all? Rodgers seems to have an amazing tendency to shoot himself in the foot with his comments.

Mr.H · 21-09-2015 03:31PM

Alonso77 wrote: »

Why say it at all? Rodgers seems to have an amazing tendency to shoot himself in the foot with his comments.

I think he was referring to the fact that our form changed so fast from not being able to win 2 games on the trot to going on a 14 game unbeaten streak.

That and the fact that we were able to put runs together but only for not having a striker

Alonso77 · 21-09-2015 03:33PM

Mr.H wrote: »

I think he was referring to the fact that our form changed so fast from not being able to win 2 games on the trot to going on a 14 game unbeaten streak.

That and the fact that we were able to put runs together but only for not having a striker

Huh? The tweet is dated Jan 2015. Which run are you referring to?

rossie1977 · 21-09-2015 03:34PM

Mr.H wrote: »

I get what your saying and even I think his time is almost up. I just dont like the way people are not giving hijm credit for what he has done here.

credit...the guy has spent £300 million and liverpool have no trophies or even a cup final to show for it. kenny won a trophy and was the width of a post away from winning another and he was only in the job 16 months. kenny bought suarez who carried the team after he left, he bought henderson who is now captain and gave sterling his debut. the squad kenny left was bursting with potential which is probably why they reached two cup finals in one season.

between 12th january and 30 December 2011 kennys league record was 19 wins 10 draws and 8 defeats..i am pretty confident had kenny been given £200 million over the next 2-3 years and suarez coming into his own liverpool would have thrived

Tipsy McSwagger · 21-09-2015 03:36PM

Right now BR is not doing what is the right thing for Liverpool Football Club. Every decision he is making is for himself and himself only.

5starpool · 21-09-2015 03:36PM

Alonso77 wrote: »

Why say it at all? Rodgers seems to have an amazing tendency to shoot himself in the foot with his comments.

Ya, there were things that could have been said that were equally positive without being threatened to be held up as examples of being totally wrong in hindsight. He really does himself no favours with what he says a lot of the time.

Potential Underachiever · 21-09-2015 03:37PM

Tipsy McSwagger wrote: »

Right now BR is not doing what is the right thing for Liverpool Football Club. Every decision he is making is for himself and himself only.

Go on elaborate please, why would he do things that will eventually cost him his job if he's only looking after himself?

Mr.H · 21-09-2015 03:40PM

Alonso77 wrote: »

Huh? The tweet is dated Jan 2015. Which run are you referring to?

The strek where we lost at Old Trafford and went on a 20 game streak (in all comps) of not losing. I dont know how far into it, it was though because I dont know when in January but at the very least we were on a 5 game no losses run.

We lost at Old Trafford in December and didnt lose again until March (albeit we did lose in extra time in the league cup semi final to Chelsea)

Potential Underachiever · 21-09-2015 03:41PM

rossie1977 wrote: »

credit...the guy has spent £300 million and liverpool have no trophies or even a cup final to show for it. kenny won a trophy and was the width of a post away from winning another and he was only in the job 16 months. kenny bought suarez who carried the team after he left, he bought henderson who is now captain and gave sterling his debut. the squad kenny left was bursting with potential which is probably why they reached two cup finals in one season.

between 12th january and 30 December 2011 kennys league record was 19 wins 10 draws and 8 defeats..i am pretty confident had kenny been given £200 million over the next 2-3 years and suarez coming into his own liverpool would have thrived

I doubt it tbh, the game had moved on, Kenny looked out of his depth, I doubt the tactics of giving the ball to Downing to cross it into Big Andy or Charlie Adam pulling the strings in midfield would have yielded too much success.

As much as Kenny is a living legend, he had to go.

Agent Coulson · 21-09-2015 03:42PM

Spoofer.

"Judge me after three years" - (in 2012)

"Look at Tottenham. If you spend £100m, you expect to be challenging for the league."

"We won't do a Tottenham"

"My biggest mentor is myself because I've had to study, so that's been my biggest influence."

“We play with 11 men, other teams play with 10 men and a goalkeeper.”

"I don't think there is anyone better, that is the reality of how I see it."

"When we lose I don't get too disappointed in the same way that when we win I don't get too carried away."

Crash Bang Wall · 21-09-2015 03:47PM

For me its not about the net spend or any of that....For me its simply about the fact that he doesnt learn from his mistakes, keeps chopping and changing formations, expecting tactics like this to somehow confuse the opposition. He cant coach a defence....for 3 seasons we have been riddled with defensive mistakes....we got away with them for one season when we had Suarez and Sturridge on fire.

If you are not scoring at 1 end, you have to be able to rely on your defence to give you a half decent chance to get something out of a game...our defending is woeful, he has given Lovern so many chances, refuses to acknowledge that we need a top quality DM.

I hate watching us at the minute

Mr.H · 21-09-2015 03:49PM

rossie1977 wrote: »

credit...the guy has spent £300 million and liverpool have no trophies or even a cup final to show for it. kenny won a trophy and was the width of a post away from winning another and he was only in the job 16 months. kenny bought suarez who carried the team after he left, he bought henderson who is now captain and gave sterling his debut. the squad kenny left was bursting with potential which is probably why they reached two cup finals in one season.

between 12th january and 30 December 2011 kennys league record was 19 wins 10 draws and 8 defeats..i am pretty confident had kenny been given £200 million over the next 2-3 years and suarez coming into his own liverpool would have thrived

Kenny also bought Adam, Carroll, Downing and Doni.

Liverpool struggled under Dalglish. As much as I love the man his tactics were outdated.

I dont think Suarez would have played the way he did if it was under Kenny. Difference is Rodgers made Suarez the pinnacle were Kenny made Carroll the focal point.

All of Kennys signings where to get the best out of Carroll. Adam and Downing were bought for their ability to cross the ball. Even Hendersons stats with crossing were the reason he is here

Potential Underachiever · 21-09-2015 03:49PM

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Spoofer.

What's the deal with your relentless search of BR quotes when you don't like the man!?!

Tipsy McSwagger · 21-09-2015 03:50PM

Potential Underachiever wrote: »

Go on elaborate please, why would he do things that will eventually cost him his job if he's only looking after himself?

Simply put he is in panic mode and starting Sturridge yesterday confirm that.

Caovyn Lineah · 21-09-2015 03:52PM

Tipsy McSwagger wrote: »

Simply put he is in panic mode and starting Sturridge yesterday confirm that.

How did Sturridge play? Was he injured? Did the decision backfire? Is Sturridge now closer to match fitness?

Potential Underachiever · 21-09-2015 03:53PM

Tipsy McSwagger wrote: »

Simply put he is in panic mode and starting Sturridge yesterday confirm that.

Nope, I still don't get it? Why is he in panic mode? Is it because he wants the club to do well and get better results.

Actually forget it, you jumped the shark when you called him a scumbag, no point trying to get reason out of you.

Good day Sir.

MD1990 · 21-09-2015 03:56PM

Do think its forgotten under Kenny we genuinelly had no luck. Hit the crossbar for fun.We had a very poor spell at the end of 11/12 season but for 3/4's of that season we actually played very good football.

Magico Gonzalez · 21-09-2015 03:56PM

The whole Kenny would have saved us carry on is myopic nonsense. He is a manager left in the 90s, hasnt the tactics to move on. His appeal is that he is part of a successful past but it's naively simplistic to think keeping him on would have changed things for us.

We took a bet on a young manager, hopefully it has been a lesson for us. For me the best bet would surely be Ancelotti if he would take the job. Klopp is another gamble. Ancelotti knows the premier league.

We need to stop looking to the past as a club and move on.

corwill · 21-09-2015 03:58PM

MD1990 wrote: »

Do think its forgotten under Kenny we genuinelly had no luck. Hit the crossbar for fun.We had a very poor spell at the end of 11/12 season but for 3/4's of that season we actually played very good football.

Suarez hit the woodwork I don't know how many times that season, even he found it funny after a while.

It wasn't all just bad luck, though.

J Mysterio · 21-09-2015 04:00PM

Caovyn Lineah wrote: »

How did Sturridge play? Was he injured? Did the decision backfire? Is Sturridge now closer to match fitness?

He was very rusty and made poor decisions.

I would say playing him did backfire as, ultimately, moves that may have led to a goal broke down with him.

Good to see him back though.

Magico Gonzalez · 21-09-2015 04:02PM

ps...anyone calling any Liverpool manager a scumbag has lost the run of themselves, it's frustrating to be in a position were results are bad, but calling the guy a scumbag speaks volumes about you as a fan.

I'd honestly rather people that had no respect weren't associated with the club and I think the myth of the Liverpool way and the way we always support the team has been seriously eroded by the childish nonsense that has gone on.

corwill · 21-09-2015 04:06PM

Potential Underachiever wrote: »

Nope, I still don't get it? Why is he in panic mode? Is it because he wants the club to do well and get better results.

Actually forget it, you jumped the shark when you called him a scumbag, no point trying to get reason out of you.

Good day Sir.

I neither think Rodgers is deliberately deciding to somehow hurt the club while simultaneously saving himself nor do I think he's a "scumbag" (not fond of the amount of personal stuff you see thrown about, although I'll admit to having a sneery go at his choppers the odd time).

But when I saw Sturridge in the starting 11, the first word that came to mind was "panic", and I find it hard to believe any reasonably well informed football fan would think otherwise.

Sturridge has a well established record of needing quite a while to recover form upon return from injury layoffs AND for breaking down when brought on too quickly.

That it didn't go completely pear shaped doesn't make it a good decision, even with the benefit of hindsight.

Boom_Bap · 21-09-2015 04:08PM

I thought yesterday showed an improved performance and could be the platform for good things to come.
There are a few things that once ironed out could get us back to scoring goals. I think that Coutinho has put too much pressure on himself to be the goal scorer. There were a couple of chances that he coul have squared the ball to someone who was in a better position to score.

The interchange of positions in the back 3 and DM was much better. One of the back 3 was allowed to bring the ball out and start building from the back.

Sturridge getting into familiar positions between Benteke and the midfield allowed for the attack to flow better.

More people getting into the final 3rd with decent cover behind.

So a step in the right direction, let's hope that continues.

Ings and Moreno were great. Kudos to Lucas as well for a solid performance and his pressing to get the ball back.

Alonso77 · 21-09-2015 04:12PM

Magico Gonzalez wrote: »

The whole Kenny would have saved us carry on is myopic nonsense. He is a manager left in the 90s, hasnt the tactics to move on. His appeal is that he is part of a successful past but it's naively simplistic to think keeping him on would have changed things for us.

We took a bet on a young manager, hopefully it has been a lesson for us. For me the best bet would surely be Ancelotti if he would take the job. Klopp is another gamble. Ancelotti knows the premier league.

We need to stop looking to the past as a club and move on.

If only, then people might stop harking back to 2013/14 to defend the current malaise

Potential Underachiever · 21-09-2015 04:16PM

corwill wrote: »

I neither think Rodgers is deliberately deciding to somehow hurt the club while simultaneously saving himself nor do I think he's a "scumbag" (not fond of the amount of personal stuff you see thrown about, although I'll admit to having a sneery go at his choppers the odd time).

But when I saw Sturridge in the starting 11, the first word that came to mind was "panic", and I find it hard to believe any reasonably well informed football fan would think otherwise.

Sturridge has a well established record of needing quite a while to recover form upon return from injury layoffs AND for breaking down when brought on too quickly.

That it didn't go completely pear shaped doesn't make it a good decision, even with the benefit of hindsight.

Probably better for Sturridge to start and get 60 mins after a thorough warm up pre game than throwing him on cold with 30 mins to go. The lad has an alleged mental block where he refuses to play with a slight niggle so I presume he was very agreeable.

5starpool · 21-09-2015 04:18PM

FWIW, I think Kenny was let go a season too early. The last 3 months of that season were awful in terms of league form, but probably not that different to Rodgers in the last while.

There is no guarantee that he would have got things right, and I was against having Adam and Carroll in particular in the team, but I would have been happy to give him another season to prove he was right for us at that point. I think that's where I was with Rodgers at the end of last season where I think he deserved a bit more time but there wasn't a huge amount of leeway.

Potential Underachiever · 21-09-2015 04:19PM

Alonso77 wrote: »

If only, then people might stop harking back to 2013/14 to defend the current malaise

That's what we do, we're Liverpool fans, we all bang on about the past, here we are years later and some people still go on and on about Rafa!

In fairness the reason our 2013/14 season was brought up is because a poster alleged that BR was never good enough for Liverpool, it was just brought up to counter that mis informed point.

Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2015/16 (*EVERYONE READ MOD POST in OP)

Comments