DCM 2015: Mentored Novices Thread

menoscemo wrote: »

I should point out that the advice given in that post refers to the marathon day itself.
For training purposes, if you are already happy with your choice of gel, I'd argue that you would be better off not taking any gels at all at this stage. You really need to get your body used to burning fat as well as carbs/sugar/glycogen on your long runs. Gels just encourage your body to burn sugar.
For this reason Gels are not something I would personally be taking with me on training runs, I'd prefer to leave them to the big day where a) I will be running faster than on my long training runs (burning more sugar/glycogen) b) running further and c) will need any boost possible (psychological or physical).

If you are still 'experimenting' by all means try a gel on a long training run to try out. But if you are already happy with your choice I'd say take one for emergency but try not to use it.

Cheers. I find for evening runs I don't need to take anything as a big bowl of pasta earlier that day fuels me perfectly. But if I'm running in the morning I find it tough to get enough carbs in beforehand to fuel me for 14+ miles - even with a good meal the night before. With DCM starting at 9am I need to figure out what the best approach is, and do it now.

I would imagine that this:

'flapjacks here'

will see you engulfed with hungry finishers... Novices or not!

Aargh, starting to regret missing the race!

nop98 wrote: »

I would imagine that this:



will see you engulfed with hungry finishers... Novices or not!

True, but do they know the secret handshake?! No one gets a flapjack without giving the secret handshake :pac:

nop98 wrote: »

I would imagine that this:



will see you engulfed with hungry finishers... Novices or not!

Aargh, starting to regret missing the race!

Easy.....no secret hand shake.....no Flap Jacks.......we will look weird but at least we will be fed........sorted!!

Night all

Dubgal72 wrote: »

I was thinking more immediately post-race where to meet :rolleyes: can't wait to get to the pub that wan... I won't be making it to Ryan's, sorry guys...

Here's a map of where to meet. It's extremely precise and worked well for the 10 miler.



An alternative guide on where to meet might be "somewhere on the right after the finish area but before the Bootcamp Ireland cooldown. Look out for flapjacks!".

Good luck with DCHM all you lucky people! (and to all the runners doing the nop-variant-HM)

Good luck to you all with the race on Saturday. It was my first ever half marathon when I did it last year and it's a really enjoyable race in the park.

Name|Race number
Singer |14
Emsy1 |6564
Toulouse |1048
conor_mc|6467
chrislad|4254
PeterD61|595
PJD|465
Smashiner|5112
Mrs Mc|368
Kennyg|467
Neilthefunkeone|2747
ZV Yoda|1059

kit3 wrote: »

Thanks - I usually don't either but wonder would they help psychologically (grasping here after a sh1te run today )

fwiw, my gel 'strategy' has been to take some on my increasing long runs (i.e. my first 16, my first 18, my first 20 ...), but not on subsequent runs of that length. Its probably more of a psychological than physical thing really.

I will take some on the day, but I haven't quite decided how many. Maybe 4 or 5. I think some people take them in later phases of the race and I've heard of people taking their first gel even before the start, but I'm inclined to space them out.
I'd be interested in the experts view on this.

8.5 miles done Wednesday morning at 5.50 avg. 9.17 to
fast, but felt comfortably easy.

6.25 miles done 6.20 this morning avg 9.42, milder this morning
have to really concentrate on keeping pace in check, as
easy pace seems to be drifting upwards, managed bit better
This morning.

New runners seem fine, little firmer than present ones, but
Will try them out in half on Saturday.

Hope everyone holding up well, best luck on Saturday all novices
And mentors.

In case this hasn't reached you yet via the various social media channels, here's the online participant tracker:

http://track.rtrt.me/e/TDL-DUBLINHALF-2015#/tracker

The very best of luck everyone! I'll be tracking y'all online.

Phoebas wrote: »

fwiw, my gel 'strategy' has been to take some on my increasing long runs (i.e. my first 16, my first 18, my first 20 ...), but not on subsequent runs of that length. Its probably more of a psychological than physical thing really.

I will take some on the day, but I haven't quite decided how many. Maybe 4 or 5. I think some people take them in later phases of the race and I've heard of people taking their first gel even before the start, but I'm inclined to space them out.
I'd be interested in the experts view on this.

I'm no expert but here's my take on gels for novice runners who are running a marathon. The advice would be different if it were for a long term runner who had developed their fat burning capabilities over a period of time and was accustomed to running 20+ miles taking nothing on board.

Different types of gel
First of all as has been mentioned before there are many different gels on the market. Aside from manufacturers there are a couple of different types of gel available
Standard gel - needs to be taken with water.
Isogel - these already have water added so it's not essential (although it's no harm) to take any additional water.
Also the two types of gel are available with and without caffeine.


Choosing a gel

The likelihood is that some will work for you and others won't so it's absolutely essential that you try these in training.

Isogels are often said to be easier to absorb because they already contain water but YMMV.
If like me you never consume caffeine then give the gels with caffeine a miss.

For practical reasons I suggest that you give the High 5 gels that are provided in the race a test. If they work then you should be able to pick them up during the race. The course map says that they'll only be available at mile 17 but in previous years they've typically been available in 2 locations and another guide on the dublin marathon website says that they'll be available at miles 16 and 21.

How often
It depends :rolleyes:. The harder that you run the higher the % of carbs compared to fat you'll burn and the more frequently you'll need them but it also depends on how well adapted to using fat your body has become.

[anecdote]For my first marathon I took them about every half hour which was perfect (until I ran out :eek:). My second marathon didn't go to plan and I ended up jogging/walking in from then 10 mile mark. I took a gel at one point and got a sugar buzz because I was primarily burning fat.
[/anecdote]

Every 30-40 mins is IMO a pretty good starting point. You want to start taking them early on in the race and stop about a half hour before the finish (unless you hit the wall during that period).Some people do take one just before the start. I don't like doing that because I fear a sugar high followed by a low but it undoubtedly works for some - if you try this make sure that you've done it in training first.

Carrying them around
There are any number of belts and other methods of carrying gels around the course with you.
YOu can also pin them to your shorts which provides the added benefit of making them easy to open.

Whichever method you choose make sure that you've completed a couple of long runs using it. In general you should look for something that attaches to the torso rather that your limbs.

It is possible to arrange to pick up gels from a friend en route but if you do plan to do this then make sure that you have a cast iron plan.

[anecdote] I planned to pick up gels from two different people during my first marathon. The first guy was a very good friend and we arranged a specific point on the course, he then cycled around to a second point and gave me another one. It worked perfectly. The second person was a friend of my sisters who lived on the route. We had never met, I didn't speak to her before the race, it was a crowded point on the route and it was arranged to happen somewhere between 2 mile markers. No prizes for guessing how that worked out!
[/anecdote]

I'd be remiss not to point out that there's a small risk in relying on the stations to pick up gels slightly greater if you're at the slower end of the race. I don't know of Dublin experiencing any issues but other marathons have had scenarios where they've run out of water because the day was unexpectedly hot or even because some product was stolen on the morning of the race. It's not that likely a scenario but it's a possibility and if you do plan to pick up some gels from the station have a backup plan prepared just in case.

Back up plans
So you're 17 miles in, something in your plan has gone awry and you've started to hit the wall :eek:.
Grab some lucozade sport (remember to have practiced drinking this on a training run) as soon as you can. Also, one of the great things about the Dublin marathon is there will be loads of spectators offering a variety of food. Take advantage! There will also be loads of kids with jellies, chocolates and various other edibles. I'd advise against fruit if you're hitting the wall as you'll get more carbs from the sweets. Ease back on your pace for a few minutes and you'll find that the carbs start to kick in. I did experiment with taking one of the gels provided at the station but it went straight through me and I don't think that it was a good idea on the whole.

Gels don't suit
Don't despair if you've tried a few gels and none seem to be working. Gels are a relatively recent development and we've been running marathons for decades. There's a plethora of products out there than you can experiment with or you can just carry a bag of jelly babies with you - they're just a tiny bit more awkward to carry around than gels. I've a friend who has run sub 2:30 who uses mini-flapjacks. Basically anything that contains a relatively fast acting carbohydrate that you can carry around with you will work.

Before the race
No doubt you'll have heard about carbo loading. It's not an excuse to pig out so put away the box of jelly babies/chocolates for another occasion . In the week leading up to the marathon you'll be tapering and your training load will be significantly reduced so you won't be burning as many carbs as normal - many of you will see your weight creep up a couple of lbs as your body begins to store more carbs along with the water associated (this is a good thing!). For the last 2 days change the composition of your plate so that you're eating more carbs and less fat/protein. The overall amount of food doesn't really need to change just the constituent parts. You should have a pre-race routine including breakfast already sorted - ideally it's going to primarily carb based.

Great post. Personally, I can't stomach gels. Tried a few brands. Jelly Tots have gotten me through the last number of long runs. Normally 2 packets for up to 20 miles, probably be 3 on the day itself!

Deleted User wrote: »

I will pick up some jelly babies, I've tried a few things now and nothing has really worked out for me.

The chopped up frozen mars bar was OK but those fcukers melt FAST.

Try the Jelly Tots too. Bit more sugary, plus they're smaller too so you can stuff more in your mouth