BER changed after sale agreed

Coco84 · 11-09-2015 05:56PM #1

Hi

I've gone sale agreed on a ground floor apartment. It was advertised as BER B2 and I asked the agent repeatedly for the BER ID so that I could see the advisory report. Each time he assured me he'd send it on.

About a month into the sale I received the BER ID. It turns out it's almost a C2 at 173.5 kwhr/m2/yr. It's thrown me a bit and I'm unsure if I'll go ahead unless there are simple measures to improve the BER.

The apartment is ground floor, sitting just above the underground car park. The living area has floor to ceiling windows, mostly facing north. The sun won't provide much heat in this apartment.

The advisory report states 0% low energy lighting, Gas heating efficiency of 78.7%, windows with a U-value between 2.7 and 4 and floor U-value between 0.25 and 6. It also states it has less than 100% draught stripping but the effect will be low. The cylinder is factory insulated.

I've considered the following, and perhaps someone can tell me if they can bring the BER up to B2:
- add insulation strips to any windows that open.
- change light bulbs for energy efficient light bulbs. The main area has inbuilt spot lights. Don't know if energy efficient versions exist.
- change carpet for better quality carpet with the best insulation base layer.
- change carpet for wood flooring with the best insulation base layer - don't know if this is sold/effective.
- I assume management won't give permission to change the windows on an apartment.

I will be changing floors regardless as it currently has hard wear carpet suitable for renting so I imagine the base layer is also of poor quality.

I really just want to be warm without extortionate heating bills.

I'm also concerned about the BER getting worse as this is my first home not my last and I'm hoping it can be resold at a similar price when the time comes to move on.

Any help would be much appreciated.

sydthebeat · 11-09-2015 09:10PM

short answer, No... none of those suggestions will get you anywhere near B2.
the only one that would actually make any minor difference is changing all lights to LEL's.

what exactly are the current windows?
they could be old pvc ones with a 12mm gap pre 2004.

i wouldnt be too worried though.
The window u value means the assessor had to default to the worst value because the exact U value of the window couldn't be determined.
The boiler is most probably a wall hung gas.
at 78% it would be a D rated boiler, you could price up an A rated condensing one and see if it fits your budget. That should get it to B3 band.
the floor u value is also the default as it cant be determined visually.
the less than 100% draught stripping could be because the entrance door isnt draught stripped.

I really just want to be warm without extortionate heating bills.

to be honest the BER rating isnt going to be a solid indicator of this.

at the end of the day, regardless of the work you do to it, it will still be above a car park and will still have north facing floor to ceiling glazing.

Calahonda52 · 13-09-2015 11:09AM

As above
The BER report is CMBA report, based on notional occupancy and energy usage.

Forget about current and expected BER: focus on what you can do to make it better for you and nothing else.

http://www.seai.ie/Your_Building/BER/BER_FAQ/FAQ_BER/General/What_Can_Be_Done_to_Improve_a_BER_.html

you maybe able to replace the glazing in the windows, if they are good enough quality frames: Are the glazing beads inside or outside?

How high is the floor to ceiling height.

The other question is ask ur lawyer whether u can walk away based on the wrong BER?

I don't know.

Finally, whats the location like in general, did u buy as it maxed your budget or because u really liked the area etc?

Finally eile:

Occupancy profile is key to energy use.
do the math on the BER difference:
(C2 minus B2)kwhr/m2/yr BY the area by say 10 cents a kWh for gas or 20 for elec will give u a rough idea of the difference in theoretical energy usage.
It may not be a big number, especially depending on how u are fixed: Are u solo/partnered/kidded etc. We don't need to know but obviously if currently or planning to be kidded it will be more that if just solo u out all day.

Hope this helps

13-09-2015 03:39PM

I really don't think that a BER will tell you anything more than you can see with your own eyes. The theoretical 'kwhr/m2/yr' are just that, theory and totally dependent and how you live in the property, how you manage your heating, if you like to leave windows open etc etc etc.

Im currently looking at three BER advisory reports, a D, an E and a G and apart from the fact that the texts are 95% identical, the 5% of the text where they differ is so vague as to be worse than useless.

galwaytt · 15-09-2015 11:08AM

....the BER is, frankly, irrelevant.

When you see certified Passive Houses only getting a 'C', then you have to question the relevancy of it. I've just spent 3 days at the Self Build show fielding "what rating is this xxx ?" questions, and I've got to the point that irrespective of what u-value and airtightness I achieve, it cannot be translated into a BER rating. And even if/when you do, it's of what merit ? As this thread shows, it actually tells you nothing about the building at all.

caesarthechimp · 13-10-2015 08:00PM

Coco84 wrote: »

I've gone sale agreed on a ground floor apartment. It was advertised as BER B2 and I asked the agent repeatedly for the BER ID so that I could see the advisory report. Each time he assured me he'd send it on.

About a month into the sale I received the BER ID. It turns out it's almost a C2 at 173.5 kwhr/m2/yr. It's thrown me a bit and I'm unsure if I'll go ahead unless there are simple measures to improve the BER.

What happened there is the agent pulled a makey-uppy BER out of their ass and put it up on the website. Then when the real BER rating came in, it was very different. It happens unfortunately; you can spot them on the websites when the BER number is sometimes quoted as xxxxxxxxx instead of a real number. Technically this is illegal and can earn the agent up to 3 months in prison and/or a €5000 fine.

Another apartment in the same block that was midfloor, and facing south could easily have the B2 rating, even with the exact same windows and heating system. A lot of people wouldn't realise that at the buying stage. Even the agent doesn't seem to have realised it. But that is a real difference; one apartment will have the heating switched on in spring and autumn, while the other doesn't need to. Hence the BER is very relevant actually.

Probably too late for this person, but if it happens to you, try re-negotiating the price downwards. And if things turn sour, report the agent to the Building Control Officer of the local authority/council.
Its a form of fraud after all.

BER changed after sale agreed

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