Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2015/16 (*EVERYONE READ MOD POST in OP)

S. Goodspeed · 14-09-2015 05:14PM

MightyMandarin wrote: »

How the f*ck are supporters who didn't like Rafa in any way responsible for the status quo?

Last time I checked, not one supporter was involved in spending 35m on Andy Carroll, or signing a heap of garbage in the past 5 years, or using stupid tactics which consistently failed.

The only people responsible for the status quo are those who've worked at the club in the past number of years; both players, management and board members.

Do you think Rafa would have spent that money on Andy Carroll regardless of what Comolli or a transfer committee etc advised? Not a chance.

Anyone who wanted Rafa out and Hodgson in (there were plenty around though few now admit it) is some what to blame for the slide that happened since his departure. Because of those "supporters", Hicks and Gillette were able to sack Rafa because of alleged football reasons when it was obviously purely to make their lives as absentee landlords a lot easier. Rafa's time at LFC may well have been up but trusting that H&G would replace him with a superior manager was ludicrous.

14-09-2015 05:18PM

naughtb4 wrote: »

Happens in everything, Rugby is the big thing at the moment. Look at AI Final tickets etc.

I dont think you have to watch every game to be a massive fan. Everyone coped ok in the 80's 90's before streaming. Watching games doesnt make you more passionate.

Probably helped we were winning a lot in the 80's..

The radio was pre streaming. 5live was a good way to follow live games. Liverpool used to get a fair share of radio games.

MightyMandarin · 14-09-2015 05:20PM

S. Goodspeed wrote: »

Do you think Rafa would have spent that money on Andy Carroll regardless of what Comolli or a transfer committee etc advised? Not a chance.

To be fair, Rafa wasn't immune from spending chunks of cash on garbage. 20m for Aquilani springs to mind as an example.

JohnDaniels · 14-09-2015 05:22PM

rob316 wrote: »

His time was up as was Houllier's, as was Kenny's and when Rodgers goes so will his. Rafa had a bad last season after finishing 2nd just like Rodgers, morale was low and it looks like history has repeated itself. The problem with sacking Rafa was replacing him with Hodgson, I had no issue with Rafa going we needed fresh ideas. That squad still had, Gerrard, Agger, Kuyt, Reina, Carra, Mascherano and Torres all players that would stroll into the current first XI, finishing 7th with that was a huge failure.

I honestly find you logic beyond comprehension. I just quietly walk away from 'fans' I meet irl that spout this stuff so I'm going to do the same here.

niallo27 · 14-09-2015 05:24PM

MightyMandarin wrote: »

To be fair, Rafa wasn't immune from spending chunks of cash on garbage. 20m for Aquilani springs to mind as an example.

That was it though. When he spent big his got some great players.

14-09-2015 05:25PM

Rodgers and Rafa shouldn't be compared, chalk and cheese.

Gbear · 14-09-2015 05:26PM

MightyMandarin wrote: »

To be fair, Rafa wasn't immune from spending chunks of cash on garbage. 20m for Aquilani springs to mind as an example.

There's a difference between 20m and 4m + add ons.

If we were in a position where we could actually spend that amount on players I don't think Rafa would've gone for as many punts as he did.

He wasted a lot of money but the brief Gillette and Hicks gave him was to make a silk purse out of a sows ear - CL football without spending anything.

You can argue he didn't make the most of his budget, but I think you can also argue that he had a lot more to offer than the club at the time was capable of facilitating.

Tipsy McSwagger · 14-09-2015 05:27PM

BoardsMember wrote: »

That may be how I'm classified. I run a business, I have two young kids, a house to do up and a wife to spend time with, not to mention playing football, golf, tennis, and getting out on the bike when I can. WTF would I be doing sitting on my arse with all the "true" supporters, wasting my precious spare time watching the absolute muck they deliver week in/week out. You can stand up there on your perches and look down on me all you want, enjoy the view, I'm pretty comfortable with my decision.

I wouldn't listen to anyone on here giving you stick about not being a real fan because you can't watch awful performances every week. These are the 'fans' who had no problem posting on the Hillsborough anniversary even though they were asked to show respect and not to post for that significant date.

MD1990 · 14-09-2015 05:37PM

Forget Aquilaini Rafa wanting to sell Alonso to Juve to get Barry from Villa was a way worse decision. It resulted in a poor relationship between the two of them & probably the main reason Alonso left.

Mumha · 14-09-2015 05:38PM

J Mysterio wrote: »

Clyne - Skrtel - Sakho - Moreno

Ibe - Henderson - Coutinho - Milner

Sturridge - Benteke
______________

Keep it simple

Clyne - Gomez - Sakho - Moreno

Ibe - Henderson - Coutinho - Milner

Sturridge - Benteke

That would do, though I'm not convinced by Ibe.

Potential Underachiever · 14-09-2015 05:39PM

Tipsy McSwagger wrote: »

I wouldn't listen to anyone on here giving you stick about not being a real fan because you can't watch awful performances every week. These are the 'fans' who had no problem posting on the Hillsborough anniversary even though they were asked to show respect and not to post for that significant date.

14-09-2015 05:39PM

MD1990 wrote: »

Forget Aquilaini Rafa wanting to sell Alonso to Juve to get Barry from Villa was a way worse decision. It resulted in a poor relationship between the two of them & probably the main reason Alonso left.

Alonso had his best season after that though didn't he?

MD1990 · 14-09-2015 05:41PM

rarnes1 wrote: »

Alonso had his best season after that though didn't he?

Yes but it resulted in him wanting to leave & for only 30m too.

Mr Alan · 14-09-2015 05:46PM

MD1990 wrote: »

Yes but it resulted in him wanting to leave & for only 30m too.

Rafa >>>>>>> Alonso, so it's all moot

redzerdrog · 14-09-2015 05:46PM

Read recently that Rafa actually expected real to come in for Alonso a year earlier than they did and was trying to plan for the inevitable by getting Barry in.

Now imagine if had the foresight to realise that Suarez would be going to Barcelona yet we prepared for same by bringing in a top class striker thus not getting rode when actually trying to replace Suarez with a load of donkeys

~Rebel~ · 14-09-2015 05:53PM

MD1990 wrote: »

Forget Aquilaini Rafa wanting to sell Alonso to Juve to get Barry from Villa was a way worse decision. It resulted in a poor relationship between the two of them & probably the main reason Alonso left.

There's some serious rewriting of history going on over this.

Yes, Rafa looking to sell Alonso for the right price soured their relationship to an extent, but Alonso was on the back of the two worst seasons of his career, with a rake of injuries. Just look back through posts on here from that time and you'll find plenty talking about how a move to Juve might be what he needs to rejuvenate his career.

He stayed, had the best season of his career, and then left.

Now, the main reason he left wasn't because of the previous season's shenanigans - it was because Real Madrid came in and asked him to be the midfield general of their team. Rafa and Alonso could have had the best relationship in the world, none of that Barry stuff could have ever happened, and Alonso would still have gone to Real Madrid because they're Real Madrid.

brevity · 14-09-2015 05:53PM

I watch games and comment on boards at the same time...

14-09-2015 05:55PM

We still haven't replaced Alonso. Scandalous tbh considering the cash we've spent since

~Rebel~ · 14-09-2015 05:56PM

rarnes1 wrote: »

We still haven't replaced Alonso. Scandalous tbh considering the cash we've spent since

Almost as bad is how little we've actually tried to replace him. We keep buying the same type of all action midfielder rather than going of a range of options. The fact that Allen is about the only guy remotely like this that we've signed is not good.

Potential Underachiever · 14-09-2015 05:57PM

redzerdrog wrote: »

Read recently that Rafa actually expected real to come in for Alonso a year earlier than they did and was trying to plan for the inevitable by getting Barry in.

Can you link that please

Now imagine if had the foresight to realise that Suarez would be going to Barcelona yet we prepared for same by bringing in a top class striker thus not getting rode when actually trying to replace Suarez with a load of donkeys

Nope, read it 10 times, can't make head nor tail of it, are there words missing or something?

.

niallo27 · 14-09-2015 06:00PM

~Rebel~ wrote: »

There's some serious rewriting of history going on over this.

Yes, Rafa looking to sell Alonso for the right price soured their relationship to an extent, but Alonso was on the back of the two worst seasons of his career, with a rake of injuries. Just look back through posts on here from that time and you'll find plenty talking about how a move to Juve might be what he needs to rejuvenate his career.

He stayed, had the best season of his career, and then left.

Now, the main reason he left wasn't because of the previous season's shenanigans - it was because Real Madrid came in and asked him to be the midfield general of their team. Rafa and Alonso could have had the best relationship in the world, none of that Barry stuff could have ever happened, and Alonso would still have gone to Real Madrid because they're Real Madrid.

Plus it was a World Cup year and alonso knew he wouldn't be making the side playing in England.

Iused2likebusts · 14-09-2015 06:13PM

The only two set ups I can see working with the players we have is 352 or a diamond. Id much prefer option 2. One thing is for sure we dont have the players for a 433.
mig
gomez skrtel sakho
clyne milner coutinho hendo moreno
sturridge benteke

Mig
clyne skrtel sakho moreno
hendo
milner coutinho
firmino
sturridge benteke

Assuming firmino is any good as I havent seen any evidence of it yet. Coutinho is very good in that position as he was in the suarez season. Moreno or enrique has to play LB in that formation . I think Hendo could be a good DM he covers the ground quickly can switch the play and gets on the half turn much better than lucas.

Magico Gonzalez · 14-09-2015 06:16PM

JohnDaniels wrote: »

I find it hard to imagine anyone who welcomed Rafa leaving as a supporter of the club. Those who drove him out, supporters like you are largely responsible for the position of the club. So you can stick your sanctimonious speach where the sun don't shine.

You have literally no perspective, that much is clear. That carry on about "supporters like you..." is a damning illustration of your own overly emotional, illogical thought process.

The clubs position is currently based on a long series of problems. The failure of the Moores to invest in the infrastructure of the club when times were good and their faltering business acumen or the failure to adapt to the changing game in the 90s. The poorly managed sale of the club to literally the worst owners possible under the circumstance leading to yet more lack of investment and debt loading. The inability of the club not to "go to the well" and make populist moves lie re-instating Kenny, the poorly managed hiring of Rodgers which now looks like a cheap bet etc..in fact you could argue the decline set in as we won our last league championship, but no...you think it was a section of the fans daring to have an opinion that Benitez' time had come. I'm afraid some of us aren't interested in sacred cows, when it is time it is time and his time had come.

You don't get to decide who a fan is or who a fan is not, you don't get to rewrite history and neither do those who swear blind allegiance to Rafa and don't accept any criticism. He was a good manager, but ultimately his failure to add some quality (not riera, not babel etc) in wide areas might just have cost the last good Liverpool team to leave the stage without a league title. His time had come, that causes some pain for some people as it hints at the overall decline of the club rather than just the myth of the decline of the club after sacking Rafa. The rot started 20 years before that. Rafa was a great manager, but like all great managers, his time came and he had to go. His last team was stale and uninspired and he made expensive mistakes trying to fix that.

mosstin · 14-09-2015 06:25PM

In the minority here clearly but wanting Rodgers out and talking about the one manager who will not be replacing him is making things even more depressing.
Klopp all the way.
Interested (IMO)
Available.
Experienced.
Hungry.
Clean slate with FSG.
Makes perfect sense.

Buford T. Justice XIX · 14-09-2015 06:34PM

5starpool wrote: »

Not sure if this was posted or not, but good article by Paul Tomkins. I know a lot here aren't fans, but this generally sums up my feelings on things, that it's just not working and is probably time to move on.

http://tomkinstimes.com/2015/09/is-it-time-for-rodgers-to-go/

It's probably a fair assessment.

brevity wrote: »

I watch games and comment on boards at the same time...

I know what a tracker mortgage is....

Magico Gonzalez wrote: »

You have literally no perspective, that much is clear. That carry on about "supporters like you..." is a damning illustration of your own overly emotional, illogical thought process.

The clubs position is currently based on a long series of problems. The failure of the Moores to invest in the infrastructure of the club when times were good and their faltering business acumen or the failure to adapt to the changing game in the 90s. The poorly managed sale of the club to literally the worst owners possible under the circumstance leading to yet more lack of investment and debt loading. The inability of the club not to "go to the well" and make populist moves lie re-instating Kenny, the poorly managed hiring of Rodgers which now looks like a cheap bet etc..in fact you could argue the decline set in as we won our last league championship, but no...you think it was a section of the fans daring to have an opinion that Benitez' time had come. I'm afraid some of us aren't interested in sacred cows, when it is time it is time and his time had come.

You don't get to decide who a fan is or who a fan is not, you don't get to rewrite history and neither do those who swear blind allegiance to Rafa and don't accept any criticism. He was a good manager, but ultimately his failure to add some quality (not riera, not babel etc) in wide areas might just have cost the last good Liverpool team to leave the stage without a league title. His time had come, that causes some pain for some people as it hints at the overall decline of the club rather than just the myth of the decline of the club after sacking Rafa. The rot started 20 years before that. Rafa was a great manager, but like all great managers, his time came and he had to go. His last team was stale and uninspired and he made expensive mistakes trying to fix that.

I just wanted to thank this again!

brevity · 14-09-2015 07:06PM

Just for the record, I don't believe Rafa's time had come. Especially when considering who was lined up to replace him.

Mumha · 14-09-2015 07:14PM

~Rebel~ wrote: »

There's some serious rewriting of history going on over this.

Yes, Rafa looking to sell Alonso for the right price soured their relationship to an extent, but Alonso was on the back of the two worst seasons of his career, with a rake of injuries. Just look back through posts on here from that time and you'll find plenty talking about how a move to Juve might be what he needs to rejuvenate his career.

He stayed, had the best season of his career, and then left.

Now, the main reason he left wasn't because of the previous season's shenanigans - it was because Real Madrid came in and asked him to be the midfield general of their team. Rafa and Alonso could have had the best relationship in the world, none of that Barry stuff could have ever happened, and Alonso would still have gone to Real Madrid because they're Real Madrid.

I met one of Alonso's friends in San Sebastian, not long after he left and he told me that Alonso was actually upset at having to leave Liverpool.

~Rebel~ · 14-09-2015 07:23PM

Mumha wrote: »

I met one of Alonso's friends in San Sebastian, not long after he left and he told me that Alonso was actually upset at having to leave Liverpool.

That doesn't really tie in too much with what actually happened though, particularly all the stuff about Alonso really wanting to raise his young kid in Spain.

Also being sad/upset at leaving your home of 5 years isn't the same as not wanting to leave.

JohnDaniels · 14-09-2015 07:23PM

Magico Gonzalez wrote: »

You have literally no perspective, that much is clear. That carry on about "supporters like you..." is a damning illustration of your own overly emotional, illogical thought process.

The clubs position is currently based on a long series of problems. The failure of the Moores to invest in the infrastructure of the club when times were good and their faltering business acumen or the failure to adapt to the changing game in the 90s. The poorly managed sale of the club to literally the worst owners possible under the circumstance leading to yet more lack of investment and debt loading. The inability of the club not to "go to the well" and make populist moves lie re-instating Kenny, the poorly managed hiring of Rodgers which now looks like a cheap bet etc..in fact you could argue the decline set in as we won our last league championship, but no...you think it was a section of the fans daring to have an opinion that Benitez' time had come. I'm afraid some of us aren't interested in sacred cows, when it is time it is time and his time had come.

You don't get to decide who a fan is or who a fan is not, you don't get to rewrite history and neither do those who swear blind allegiance to Rafa and don't accept any criticism. He was a good manager, but ultimately his failure to add some quality (not riera, not babel etc) in wide areas might just have cost the last good Liverpool team to leave the stage without a league title. His time had come, that causes some pain for some people as it hints at the overall decline of the club rather than just the myth of the decline of the club after sacking Rafa. The rot started 20 years before that. Rafa was a great manager, but like all great managers, his time came and he had to go. His last team was stale and uninspired and he made expensive mistakes trying to fix that.

I found this post mostly hilarious, genuinely. It had so many levels. You spend half the post telling me I have no business telling anyone what it means to be a fan yet the post from you I originally took issue with was doing exactly this? You accuse me of being emotional, illogical yet you claim to be a supporter you should treat it like a religion, support the club with blind faith, the leader is good, the leader is great. You seem quite a mixed up fellow full of contradictions

His time had come? Why because of one bad season. Rafa is a manager you build around for decades. It is crazy watching the succession of managers go through football clubs trying to find someone that fits that people like you still don't realise that when you get a good one like Rafa, you work through the hard days, give support when times are tough. Why? Because that is what you do for a man who lived and breathed the club. A man who brought success, a man with a proven track record to back, a man who had us as the best club side in the world. This is support. When someone gives you something to believe in when things get tough you remember what this guy has given you and you support him back in his dark days. Yeah but instead when Rafa needed the fans we had fans like you, his time had come.

**** you and your ilk and your revisionism. I was robbed of seeing Rafa turn this club into a super power again and I'm very bitter about it, rightly so imo.

Mr Alan · 14-09-2015 07:24PM

Mumha wrote: »

I met one of Alonso's friends in San Sebastian, not long after he left and he told me that Alonso was actually upset at having to leave Liverpool.

This place never ceases to amaze me.

Well! I met a friend of Messi's and he said he wanted to join Liverpool but when Rafa left he changed his mind!

Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2015/16 (*EVERYONE READ MOD POST in OP)

Comments