Is "Dublin" a real place?

mickrock · 08-09-2015 11:43PM

oldrnwisr wrote: »

Before I was born the universe was around for over 13 billion years and all that time I was in a state of non-existence. And it wasn't bad, pretty comfortable actually. So I figure it'll be just as comfortable for the next 13 billion years.

You've definitely started losing your marbles.

endacl · 08-09-2015 11:49PM

mickrock wrote: »

You've definitely started losing your marbles.

Ah. Mick. Tis yourself.

If I may...

mickrock, meet the OP. OP, this is mickrock. You two are made for each other.

The Randy Riverbeast · 09-09-2015 12:07AM

I bet the pictures of ghosts wearing lipstick are nudes. That's why they cant be shared.

Rock77 · 09-09-2015 12:12AM

Lord Riverside wrote:

Out of interest, if you are seeking evidence, what evidence would actually prove God, any examples of what you would accept as evidence, and how it would prove without dispute that God exists ?

Lord Riverside wrote:

I believe alien life exists , but to date no evidence has been found, but I'm pretty confident evidence will be found in my lifetime or beyond, and then it'll be a fact rather than a belief.

I'm not saying there is no god, im not saying aliens don't exist, what im saying is i can't understand how somebody could put so much passion and effort into something that there is no evidence of.

You believe aliens exist, i don't. Im open minded, if alien life is proved, great, then I'll believe. Same with a god. As for what evidence, really? How about any evidence whatsoever, god and aliens come from a human beings imagination. Fact.

09-09-2015 12:14AM

Notavirus.exe wrote: »

Are you trolling? I've specifically said that this has nothing to do with my grandmother being an atheist and not living her life to the full.

Ah. Now you say that she hasn't lived her life to the full.

Why couldn't you just stick to that instead of messing around?

And anyway, you're wrong to say it has nothing to do with your grandmother. It has everything to do with your grandmother, with her being an atheist, and with your belief that she hasn't lived her life to the full.

Why? Because you said it, that's why.

All of which brings me back to the question I asked two and a half days ago, which was:

Deleted User wrote: »

In what way do you feel your grandmother has failed to live her life to the fullest?

Any chance of an answer?

Michael OBrien · 09-09-2015 12:20AM

Lord Riverside wrote: »

I believe alien life exists , but to date no evidence has been found, but I'm pretty confident evidence will be found in my lifetime or beyond, and then it'll be a fact rather than a belief.

Out of interest, if you are seeking evidence, what evidence would actually prove God, any examples of what you would accept as evidence, and how it would prove without dispute that God exists ?

2 Questions:
1. Why are you pretty confident that evidence for extraterrestrial life will be discovered in your lifetime? The 'beyond' part is of course completely open ended so not an issue.
2. Are you referring to intelligent life or any form of extra terrestrial life, like microbes? High enough likelihood of the latter, extremely low chance of the former, in my opinion.

Mother Brain · 09-09-2015 12:55AM

The only proof that would suffice really would be the second coming of christ really..

Though in fairness, Jesus himself prophesised that this would occur within the lifetime of his current followers so.........

Another thing that is rather puzzling about christianity / god is that it didn't exist before the old testament (generally considered around 3rd century bc).

So for example, about five thousand of years prior to this, hindu's were going about their business worshiping very different gods from the christian god. Or the egyptians even for that matter.

The really puzzling part is how that came to be the case?

If it's true that adam and eve were the progenitors of the human race, and that they had literally seen god and spoken with him, and been thrown out of eden by him... You would imagine that kind of first hand knowledge would be preserved no?

Like, how did the entire world (who are all of course direct descendants of people who had actually met god in person) just sort of forget about it?

Danjamin1 · 09-09-2015 10:40AM

Notavirus.exe wrote:

I am being hassled by atheists into explaining my reasons for believing in God now.

You're not being hassled, people are just turning your own question around, when you ask why people don't believe it's natural for them to ask why you do in turn. We've got legitimate reasons based on a belief that there are more logical explanations for all of life's mysteries.

You've derailed your own thread numerous times by bringing in ghosts, Holocaust, etc.

Samaris · 09-09-2015 04:09PM

Mother Brain wrote: »

The only proof that would suffice really would be the second coming of christ really..

Though in fairness, Jesus himself prophesised that this would occur within the lifetime of his current followers so.........

Another thing that is rather puzzling about christianity / god is that it didn't exist before the old testament (generally considered around 3rd century bc).

So for example, about five thousand of years prior to this, hindu's were going about their business worshiping very different gods from the christian god. Or the egyptians even for that matter.

The really puzzling part is how that came to be the case?

If it's true that adam and eve were the progenitors of the human race, and that they had literally seen god and spoken with him, and been thrown out of eden by him... You would imagine that kind of first hand knowledge would be preserved no?

Like, how did the entire world (who are all of course direct descendants of people who had actually met god in person) just sort of forget about it?

Well, that's how folk tales and mythology starts. Some are just stories, of course, but some legends are based on a real event, and it gets passed on by word of mouth. Over time, the telling and the message that the speaker wants to get across changes slightly with the prevailing opinions, and the "truth" so to speak, ends up as a grain at the core.

Take the story of Noah's ark. There is some odd evidence across many different cultures and religions that a massive flood really -did- take place, and the story has lived in folk memory for thousands of years now. But this flood was so massive and so destructive that there had to be a reason for it. One lot ascribed it to their god's rage at the wickedness of the earth (Acts of God are quite often considered to be punishments for something or other, else why would they happen?), another group ascribe it to their god, or to a war between gods, or whatever fits their prevailing opinion, what makes most sense to them.

Take the Plagues of Egypt. There's some interesting explanations for these strange and awful events and it's worth noting that they did not all have to happen during the reign of Ramses II. The plague of blood may have happened in an earlier or later time - or even several times - and been conflated into this overarcing story of the Hebrews God's vengeance for the Egyptians mistreatment of them. (a type of algal infestation that can cause a red tinge to the water). The plague of the first born has an interesting explanation as regards methane (as I recall) leaks. The most prized in the household would generally sleep on the ground floor; think, for instance, a first-born son. The Hebrew servant children would sleep up at the top of the house, out of sight - and out of reach of the gas.

You can see how these would creep down through oral retellings and gradually take on a significant explanation.

The Pied Piper of Hamlin. Sometime around then, it really does seem that a lot of children died or vanished from that little town. Maybe it was the Children's Crusade, maybe it was plague, maybe something else. But the story of the loss was passed down and a tale rose around it to explain it.

So, the basis of my rather rambling post is that people forget the details, and remember the overall event through the lens of a story. I think most people do take the story of Adam and Eve to be a narrative framing of an early creation story to explain Why We Are Here in a religious frame. It's not meant to be taken literally. But it's a common question throughout all peoples and all times. Why are we? And most have taken up some sort of religious explanation; thus you have similar explanations surviving as tales from different religions based on the mores of the time.

it is likely that the Christian god (or Hebrew god as was) was a slow forking of the road from a concurrent religion; i.e. Yahweh and Asherah ("Ishtar"), a Assyrian belief system, or possibly Zoroastrianism, the idea of the God of Light and God of Dark (I'm totally willing to take corrections of these, it's been a long time since I read about it). As it happened, the Hebrew god survived into Christianity and the modern day, and Asherah and Zoroastrianism did not.

Edit: Personally, I'm open to convincing, whether "god" is a spark of creation, the heart of what made the universe start, the spark of what makes life. Gods in terms of how the stories evolve tend to be far too humanised to be quite convincing.

Lord Riverside · 09-09-2015 05:54PM

Rock77 wrote: »

I'm not saying there is no god, im not saying aliens don't exist, what im saying is i can't understand how somebody could put so much passion and effort into something that there is no evidence of.

You believe aliens exist, i don't. Im open minded, if alien life is proved, great, then I'll believe. Same with a god. As for what evidence, really? How about any evidence whatsoever, god and aliens come from a human beings imagination. Fact.

I think your stuggling with the difference between belief and fact. When we do find evidence for alien life, the existence of alien life will become a known fact, and will no longer be a belief. Why does NASA and the scientific community put so much effort into searching for any evidence of alien life ? Because they believe it's worthwhile I suppose. What I find more bizarre is the non religious that become obsessed with other peoples beliefs.

Lord Riverside · 09-09-2015 05:58PM

Michael OBrien wrote: »

2 Questions:
1. Why are you pretty confident that evidence for extraterrestrial life will be discovered in your lifetime? The 'beyond' part is of course completely open ended so not an issue.
2. Are you referring to intelligent life or any form of extra terrestrial life, like microbes? High enough likelihood of the latter, extremely low chance of the former, in my opinion.

1. Because of the advances in science and exploration.
2. Alien life is alien life, once it's proven to be so, via the evidence found. Who knows what form it takes, if tiny little us, find a trace in this absolutely minicsulte part of the known universe that we know, then it's very likely other forms of alien life exist elsewhere, in who knows what form, from physical to non physical.

Notavirus.exe · 09-09-2015 06:10PM

kylith wrote: »

Can you post your reasons for not believing in unicorns? "I don't see unicorns, therefore they don't exist" is not an answer.

I never said I didn't believe in unicorns.

They were first mentioned in fictional stories or something like that.

Kev W · 09-09-2015 06:15PM

Notavirus.exe wrote: »

I never said I didn't believe in unicorns.

They were first mentioned in fictional stories or something like that.

So just because something is written in a book doesn't make it true?

Notavirus.exe · 09-09-2015 06:16PM

Mother Brain wrote: »

Another thing that is rather puzzling about christianity / god is that it didn't exist before the old testament (generally considered around 3rd century bc).

So for example, about five thousand of years prior to this, hindu's were going about their business worshiping very different gods from the christian god. Or the egyptians even for that matter.

The really puzzling part is how that came to be the case?

What makes it puzzling?

The only thing I don't get about Christianity is why Jesus only came about 2000 years ago. How many years have we humans been on earth? What happens to the people before Jesus?

INB4 Atheist remark: "Same thing before and after cuz Jesus doesn't exist!"

Lithium93_ · 09-09-2015 06:18PM

Well according to Wikipedia, humans have been around for 200,000 years, and those before Jesus, if such a person exists were pagans or something else...

Lord Riverside · 09-09-2015 06:20PM

Mother Brain wrote: »

The only proof that would suffice really would be the second coming of christ really..

No it wouldn't be sufficient at all. That could easily be disputed as something else, and therefore would not be evidence.

Mother Brain wrote: »

Though in fairness, Jesus himself prophesised that this would occur within the lifetime of his current followers so.........

No, that was his transfiguration, which then occurred later in the Gospels.

Notavirus.exe · 09-09-2015 06:22PM

Kev W wrote: »

So just because something is written in a book doesn't make it true?

The Bible was written very shortly after Jesus died so if some people started to write about this Jesus guy and claiming it was true, there would be uproar, or at least some record of one person complaining about the Bible.

Another thing, the writers of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John must have been crazy potheads to have wasted so much time writing about Jesus if it wasn't true.

Notavirus.exe · 09-09-2015 06:24PM

endacl wrote: »

Ah. Mick. Tis yourself.

If I may...

mickrock, meet the OP. OP, this is mickrock. You two are made for each other.

Why?

Lithium93_ · 09-09-2015 06:27PM

Notavirus.exe wrote: »

Why?

Notavirus.exe · 09-09-2015 06:31PM

Lithium93_ wrote: »

<snip>

You must have meant something by it.

Lithium93_ · 09-09-2015 06:32PM

I didn't snip my post

Kev W · 09-09-2015 06:33PM

Notavirus.exe wrote: »

The Bible was written very shortly after Jesus died so if some people started to write about this Jesus guy and claiming it was true, there would be uproar, or at least some record of one person complaining about the Bible.

Another thing, the writers of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John must have been crazy potheads to have wasted so much time writing about Jesus if it wasn't true.

Not all fiction is fueled by drugs.

Also even if the original gospels were true, they've been translated and retranslated and edited over centuries, not to mention that there wasn't exactly much in the way of burden of proof being asked for back then.

endacl · 09-09-2015 06:39PM

Lithium93_ wrote: »

Well according to Wikipedia, humans have been around for 200,000 years, and those before Jesus, if such a person exists were pagans or something else...

But according to young earth creationists....

endacl · 09-09-2015 06:42PM

Notavirus.exe wrote: »

I never said I didn't believe in unicorns..

So.... you do believe in unicorns...?

Notavirus.exe wrote: »

They were first mentioned in fictional stories or something like that.

indeed. One of the first mentions, in fact, was in the bible.

Lord Riverside · 09-09-2015 06:42PM

endacl wrote: »

But according to young earth creationists....

Interestingly none of the mainstream Christian denominations in Ireland are.

endacl · 09-09-2015 06:44PM

Lord Riverside wrote: »

Interestingly none of the mainstream Christian denominations in Ireland are.

Or anywhere else. Even in Christian circles, young earth nonsense is fringe nonsense.

Notavirus.exe · 09-09-2015 06:46PM

endacl wrote: »

So.... you do believe in unicorns...?
indeed. One of the first mentions, in fact, was in the bible.

Old Testament or New Testament? Christians are followers of Jesus, not the Bible. If you don't already know, the Bible isn't all about Jesus. It's a collection of books put together. Christians are only interested in the Jesus bit.

I'm not even going to answer your question about unicorns. :rolleyes:

Rock77 · 09-09-2015 06:49PM

Lord Riverside wrote:

I think your stuggling with the difference between belief and fact. When we do find evidence for alien life, the existence of alien life will become a known fact, and will no longer be a belief. Why does NASA and the scientific community put so much effort into searching for any evidence of alien life ? Because they believe it's worthwhile I suppose. What I find more bizarre is the non religious that become obsessed with other peoples beliefs.

When we find evidence of something it becomes fact, when there is no evidence its fiction. No?? If a god or aliens exist and we just haven't found evidence 'yet' fair enough but to blindly believe with no evidence.....

And this thread is aimed at non religious people so obsessed??

endacl · 09-09-2015 06:49PM

Notavirus.exe wrote: »

Old Testament or New Testament? Christians are followers of Jesus, not the Bible. If you don't already know, the Bible isn't all about Jesus. It's a collection of books put together. Christians are only interested in the Jesus bit.

I'm not even going to answer your question about unicorns. :rolleyes:

Mostly old, I believe. From a Christian website:
https://answersingenesis.org/extinct-animals/unicorns-in-the-bible/

C'mon. How are you going to backtrack later if you won't take a position on the question of unicorns?

Lord Riverside · 09-09-2015 06:56PM

Rock77 wrote: »

When we find evidence of something it becomes fact, when there is no evidence its fiction. No?? If a god or aliens exist and we just haven't found evidence 'yet' fair enough but to blindly believe with no evidence.....

No, I think you're mixed up again. Alien life may exist, or it may not. We don't know if it exists or not. Until there is evidence it does exist / does not exist, we can't logically state that it's a fiction or a fact. Hence opinions / beliefs that it does exist, or that it does not exist.

Is "Dublin" a real place?

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