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DCM 2015: Mentored Novices Thread
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Ah sure I'm sure MJ will turn a blind eye to your plagiarism
I catch any of ye doing that (and I will.....) .....:mad: :mad:
Hehe love the runners organisational ocd
A lsr is going to leave you pretty wrecked, work or no work. I generally factor in some horizontal-on-the-sofa-parenting on Sunday afternoons so Mrs Mc you're not alone! Can you rejig your schedule so you do it on your day off?
We should start up a weird and wonderful statistics post
Keep an eye on that foot and hopefully a rest at EP will help.
Well done for getting out early. For all of you, focus on effort levels over pace if going out very early and/or 'on empty' until your body adjusts.
Funny how things are interpreted online sometimes? I love emoticons
S'ok FBOT we haven't told him yet he's not going DS again He's in early denial stage :pac:
Funny enough, faster miles feel easier, they fell effortless, compared to
Reining in. But I just keep reminding my self of all those slow twitch lads
Being recruited and being able to carry us through unknown last 6 miles.😅0 -
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Back home in Kerry today and got my first run of the week done tonight, 5 miles @9:53 min/mi. Felt great during it so hopefully bodes well for another good week. The weeks are really rattling off, I will miss the training plan when it's done so starting to think a little bit of what I will plan for after DCM. I like to have a few ideas in the back burner! What is the recovery time needed before looking at another plan be it 5/10K plan as think I would like to get some of my lazy fast twitch fibers going after the marathon.
Hi diego, good idea to be looking beyond DCM. Generally, you are advised to rest and recover one day per mile raced, so November is pretty much taken care of there You could start a plan in December and even race once or twice in that month just to see where you are. I read back along that you are at your prime post marathon after - I think, don't quote me - five weeks. I've a feeling we'll be seeing PBs rolling in in January and December
How you build depends on how you recover in November too. Some will take a complete rest, some will keep ticking over.
We'll talk about optimal recovery plans too post-marathon in a few weeks. By *we*, I mean Clearlier, MS, FBOT et al :pac: 0 -
Hi Sunny D, nice running....buuut... Have a look at this in case you missed it. (And apologies if you have replied, the occasional post gets lost if you turn your back for a few pages ) What you did tonight was essentially a PMP (planned marathon pace run)....but with no warm up or cool down :eek:Hi Sunny D, thanks for taking the time to answer these. Your HMs suggest that you're in good shape and you have a good spread of mileage across the week.
I will suggest however that your training runs are a tad fast. (*collective novice groan* :pac:)
For your first marathon, you really want to be sure that you have enough endurance banked. Miles and miles will fill the bank but slower miles are a stronger currency in marathon training.
I know this seems counter-intuitive but trust me, marathon training - especially your first - requires a different approach.
It's all down to fibres....no, not that type of fibre (definitely not that kind of fibre :eek: ).
You will have heard of fast twitch and slow twitch fibres. The speedsters have a glut of fast twitch fibres and endurance runners will have an overflow of slow twitch fibres. Slow twitch fibres, when trained to cope with miles and miles and miles in the right manner, will stave off fatigue, especially in the later stages of the marathon. Slow twitch fibres, especially for novices, thrive and multiply on many slow miles.
You might have an idea whether you are a speedster or a diesel engine. Bearing in mind the training you have done, you can compare your Pbs on a vdot table. If they fall off, it can suggest that you need to focus on endurance.
The good news is that you have medium twitch fibres and these are fickle little devils. You can recruit them to act as slow twitch fibres by sloooowing down your training runs. Bonus!
The bad news is, training at too fast a pace will leave these medium twitch fibres as exactly that. And that is where the wheels will come off on marathon day. You will have loads of miles under your belt, but loads of slightly-too-fast miles...and a healthy contingent of non-recruited medium twitch fibres.
These guys are no good at keeping fatigue at bay after 15 miles. They collapse and you're looking at hitting the wall a few miles later....
We recommend that your easy, recovery and lsrs (80-90% of your marathon prep) should be 45-90 seconds per mile slower than your PMP (planned marathon pace).
A four hour marathon is around 9m/mi pace so for slow twitch recruitment to be effective, you would ideally train at 9:45-10:30 pace.
A 3:40 marathon (not imposssible) is around 8:20 pace (0ff the top of my head) so you have been doing your lsrs at nearly PMP. Slow down to 9-10 m/mi pace and you will get that medium-to-slow twitch conversion going. You have two months to do this so all is not lost
What has your lsr progression been like over the last few weeks and what is the planned progression for the month of September? 15 miles at this stage is quite low, unless your plan has adopted a two day lsr strategy? By this I mean a medium long run on one day followed consecutively by a longer run.
PS hills are good, but for DCM specificity, hills are not absolutely necessary. DCM is a flat enough course. My concern would be that hills take away from the business of building, running and recovering from plain old miles in the bank
Have a look at these, they will explain in more detail why slower is better
Clearlier pacing post
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=96220748&postcount=1789
SLOWING DOWN MYLES SPLITZ
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=95875158&postcount=724
NE on going slower
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=95874717&postcount=721
Yaboya and slow running and speed
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=96268207&postcount=1913Sunny Disposition wrote: »Just back from a six mile run, first time running in the dark for months. Took it relatively easy, average of 8.25 a mile, which seems to be a kind of a default pace when I don't press things, always seem to go about this pace. Legs still a little bit sore from 15m lsr on Saturday and 4m recovery on Sun.
8.14
8.17
8.35
8.27
8.34
8.240 -
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My run tonight started out hard, I really struggled for the first 20 minutes, I had to stop at one point to stretch my calves. My plan said 50-60 minutes easy so I decided to just get to 25 minutes and turn around and go home. Decided I wouldn't be able for my hill sprints so just get the miles in and that be that.
Honest to god I saw this, a sign, literally :pac:
I stopped to take the pic and had a little smile and for some reason it all got easy from that point on.
1 hr 19 minutes + 6 hill sprints done 0 -
Hi diego, good idea to be looking beyond DCM. Generally, you are advised to rest and recover one day per mile raced, so November is pretty much taken care of there You could start a plan in December and even race once or twice in that month just to see where you are. I read back along that you are at your prime post marathon after - I think, don't quote me - five weeks. I've a feeling we'll be seeing PBs rolling in in January and December
How you build depends on how you recover in November too. Some will take a complete rest, some will keep ticking over.
We'll talk about optimal recovery plans too post-marathon in a few weeks. By *we*, I mean Clearlier, MS, FBOT et al :pac:
I was considering doing the MoRunning 5k (as I did the 10k last year) which is on in mid November (17th I think) - Is this way too early to be racing then? I was going to play it by ear but if it's too soon, no point in me wasting my money or the travel costs/time!0 -
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Hi diego, good idea to be looking beyond DCM. Generally, you are advised to rest / and recover one day per mile raced, so November is pretty much taken care of there You could start a plan in December and even race once or twice in that month just to see where you are. I read back along that you are at your prime post marathon after - I think, don't quote me - five weeks. I've a feeling we'll be seeing PBs rolling in in January and December
How you build depends on how you recover in November too. Some will take a complete rest, some will keep ticking over.
We'll talk about optimal recovery plans too post-marathon in a few weeks. By *we*, I mean Clearlier, MS, FBOT et al :pac:
Great minds!! I got the turbo out tonight, brought the bike in from the shed and set it up beside the treadmill. I plan to do the odd night recovery on the turbo over the next 7 weeks, and was planning to hit the turbo a lot from around a week after DCM. Considering the different muscle groups and low impact is this ok?
Have neglected the bike this year and want to get some balance back after Oct...0 -
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Hi diego, good idea to be looking beyond DCM. Generally, you are advised to rest and recover one day per mile raced, so November is pretty much taken care of there You could start a plan in December and even race once or twice in that month just to see where you are. I read back along that you are at your prime post marathon after - I think, don't quote me - five weeks. I've a feeling we'll be seeing PBs rolling in in January and December
How you build depends on how you recover in November too. Some will take a complete rest, some will keep ticking over.
We'll talk about optimal recovery plans too post-marathon in a few weeks. By *we*, I mean Clearlier, MS, FBOT et al :pac:
That makes sense, I had read something like that before as well in regards a mile per day...hard to call until the big un is done but I would hope not to take a complete rest if all was okay. I love running!!
Grand job on the recovery plans....need to get to the point of needing one first before worrying too much about it
There were a few races in November I had my eye on but I know they are likely too soon for anything barring looking for trouble.0 -
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Ouch 6am, definitely throw paces out the window and go by effort! Good luck if you htfu decide to do it
Thanks, I have to run by about 6 jack russles, about mile into run
So great time to start Tempo Run & see how it goes. Only pace run
This week, as LSR is 18 with 8 PMP, so not sure if this reason for
Time trial.0 -
Hey FBOT, if u are on line, just thinking about this 4 mile time
Trial, do u reckon better to do Tempo with mile w/u & 3 miles
Tempo,mile cooldown, will be doing early, so not sure if will be
Motivated to go flat out for 4 miles.
Thanks GLiterally just asked him the same thing g haven't a clue what time trial means on the plan tomorrow he is checking the plan.
It means run like fock for the prescribed distance and see how long it takes you....Enjoy 0 -
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Hi Sunny D, nice running....buuut... Have a look at this in case you missed it. (And apologies if you have replied, the occasional post gets lost if you turn your back for a few pages ) What you did tonight was essentially a PMP (planned marathon pace run)....but with no warm up or cool down :eek:
Thanks for the feedback Dubgal, know I need to slow up, will make a big effort not to go quicker than 9:30 tomorrow, actually find 8:24 pace a little frustrating, but obviously it's the way to go.
Had planned to do a long run of 16 miles Friday, 18 the week after, 20 on Sept 18/19 and two weeks later to do the longest run of 22 miles. Do you think I should be doing supplementary long runs?0
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