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US Journalists shot dead live on air [MOD WARNING in opening post]

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Comments

  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,898 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    Yakult wrote: »
    What ever about the gun problem, which I can't see going away, they need to start going after ammunition. Limit the amount you can purchase and charge $800-$1000 per bullet. Once again, what a waste of life..

    Would fall afoul of an immediate legal barrier, as an effective prohibition of the exercise of a constitutional right. Small taxes, like 5 cents a round, seem to be passing legal muster so far.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,521 ✭✭✭✭Witcher


    Would fall afoul of an immediate legal barrier, as an effective prohibition of the exercise of a constitutional right. Small taxes, like 5 cents a round, seem to be passing legal muster so far.

    That's actually a lot, even with the prices being lower there, 2.50 extra on a box of .22.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,387 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    i've noticed this a lot on places like reddit lately, people getting jumped on for how they choose to grieve. this poor guy's fiance didn't just die, she's had her last moments broadcasted across the media and internet, plastered across the front of gutter papers like a comic strip. maybe he's trying to counter that with something positive. it's amazing that of all the things to get angry/annoyed about in this situation that he, or how he chooses to grieve, even registers.
    + 1000. The poor man is in shock FFS, obsessively talking about the object of that shock is often how folks deal with grief and emotional insult, it's just these days the interwebs amplify that.
    Maybe he figures this was the best way to memorialize her? To get her out to as many people as possible while they still care, and before the next thing shows up on the news cycle.

    Speaking of news cycle, an article from two days ago just crossed my desk. The chief of police of Detroit has been in the news for two reasons. Firstly, he's the first chief of police to have any great success at lowering the ridiculous crime rate recently, and secondly, because part of his policy was to reverse his predecessors and not just stop prohibiting people carrying firearms, he actively called upon the private citizenry to arm themselves. In addition to crime rates in general going down, home invasion rates plummeted the first year by over 30%, and have dropped a further 18% his second year. As part of an overall package of measures, it would appear that more legal guns on the streets are, indeed, not a particular problem.
    Funny enough I'd be behind that, in the case of the US anyway. At this stage the horse has long bolted on any sort of tightening and prohibition. Trying that would just make hardliners did their heels in and the nutters would always be able to source firearms as there are so many of them already in circulation. We can debate the rights and wrongs all the day long, but practical solutions are what count. Plus as it stands, the death/murder rate from firearms in the US has been steadily decreasing overall.

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 832 ✭✭✭Notavirus.exe


    Kev W wrote: »
    Yeah, weird how he keeps banging on about his murdered fiance like that. Yeah guy, we get it, you're sad.

    Another case of "poor me".

    Where is he doing this? I'm not following any news channels.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 426 ✭✭custard gannet


    Again, just wondering if anyone has found the fax he sent to the news broadcasters available to view online in full.....


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,955 ✭✭✭Sunflower 27


    Another case of "poor me".

    Where is he doing this? I'm not following any news channels.

    There is a video of him doing an interview and showing a personal scrapbook she made of photos and words for him. Her personal photos and heartfelt words.

    I don't think the world media is the place for them, but that is just my opinion.

    She died in front of the world, that is bad enough. Not everything has to be in the public domain.


  • Posts: 26,920 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Again, just wondering if anyone has found the fax he sent to the news broadcasters available to view online in full.....

    Yea, because what we need is for these people's manifestos to be spread. This is the kind of thing that really needs to be stopped.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,802 ✭✭✭beks101


    The TV station's general manager released a statement outlining Flanagan's employment history with WDBJ7. Makes for a chilling read
    Statement about Vester Flanagan's employment history at WDBJ7

    Vester Flanagan was employed by WDBJ7 as a reporter between March 2012 and February 2013.Flanagan applied for the position using the air name of Bryce Williams. As part of WDBJ's standard protocol his background check resulted in positive references.

    Flanagan’s job performance and his interaction with his co-workers led his manager to place Flanagan on a succession of performance improvement plans. Only slight improvement was noted each time.

    Flanagan was placed on a final warning in December 2012 for failure to check his facts in a news story and, generally, for poor news judgment.

    In January 2013 he accused a photographer of making trouble for him by questioning a decision to go on private property in pursuit of a story. At that point, he raised some concerns with HR of perceived unfairness, which were immediately investigated and found to be without merit.

    Shortly after that, he confronted an anchor who was assigned to review one of his scripts.

    At that point, management made the determination that he needed to be separated from the company.
    On February 1, two news managers and the HR business partner notified Flanagan of the decision to terminate his employment. He reacted angrily, telling them that they would have to call the police because he was going to “make a stink and it was going to be in the headlines.”

    The HR rep called 911. Employees had been notified to give Flanagan space to clean out his desk. At his desk, Flanagan attempted to reach the corporate CEO, without success. At that point, police arrive and escorted him from the building. On the way out, he handed a wooden cross to the news director and said, “You’ll need this.” He also made a derogatory comment to Adam Ward as he left.

    The only contact between WDBJ7 and Flanagan after that were routine calls to HR about termination benefits.

    Shortly thereafter, Flanagan filed a complaint of harassment and discrimination with the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission. WDBJ7 responded that his claims of mistreatment were unfounded and the EEOC denied the claim. He later filed a civil action in local court in Roanoke. That action was dismissed.

    In two and half years since the termination, WDBJ7 employees reported seeing Flanagan in public places and there were no confrontations. He was never seen following employees and he did not attempt to enter the offices of WDBJ7.

    All claims of mistreatment were investigated by senior management, by the HR representative and legal counsel. All investigations determined that no reasonable person would have taken any of the cited instances as discrimination or harassment.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,955 ✭✭✭Sunflower 27


    beks101 wrote: »
    The TV station's general manager released a statement outlining Flanagan's employment history with WDBJ7. Makes for a chilling read

    As per the end if the article, he was clearly not a reasonable and normal person though. He murdered two people in cold blood live on air. These are not the actions if a reasonable man.

    Something was said that he took a certain way and that was his justification for doing what he did.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,955 ✭✭✭Sunflower 27


    i've noticed this a lot on places like reddit lately, people getting jumped on for how they choose to grieve. this poor guy's fiance didn't just die, she's had her last moments broadcasted across the media and internet, plastered across the front of gutter papers like a comic strip. maybe he's trying to counter that with something positive. it's amazing that of all the things to get angry/annoyed about in this situation that he, or how he chooses to grieve, even registers.

    Have you seen any interviews with him?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,683 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Kev W wrote: »
    Yeah, weird how he keeps banging on about his murdered fiance like that. Yeah guy, we get it, you're sad.

    My dad was very out of character when his spouse died. Like he went from 'never reveal you have feelings other than rage' to crying out to the moors like Heathcliff.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,683 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Maybe he figures this was the best way to memorialize her? To get her out to as many people as possible while they still care, and before the next thing shows up on the news cycle.

    Speaking of news cycle, an article from two days ago just crossed my desk. The chief of police of Detroit has been in the news for two reasons. Firstly, he's the first chief of police to have any great success at lowering the ridiculous crime rate recently, and secondly, because part of his policy was to reverse his predecessors and not just stop prohibiting people carrying firearms, he actively called upon the private citizenry to arm themselves. In addition to crime rates in general going down, home invasion rates plummeted the first year by over 30%, and have dropped a further 18% his second year. As part of an overall package of measures, it would appear that more legal guns on the streets are, indeed, not a particular problem.
    Interesting. What were the other correlating metrics (homocides per capita, total crime rate, etc)?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,802 ✭✭✭beks101


    Yeah I saw the interview with Chris Hurst on CNN. He seems numb tbh. Preachy and on autopilot and nervously clutching that photo album. He's also an anchor so his day job is the outward, confident, extroverted face he seems to be wearing to the world. Also with the prolific tweeting. He's probably using it as a coping mechanism.

    I don't think it's on anyone to police someone else's grief and what is or is not an appropriate reaction to such a horrifying event.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 426 ✭✭custard gannet


    Yea, because what we need is for these people's manifestos to be spread. This is the kind of thing that really needs to be stopped.

    I'd sooner see what it says than have the news tell me what it says.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,955 ✭✭✭Sunflower 27


    beks101 wrote: »
    Yeah I saw the interview with Chris Hurst on CNN. He seems numb tbh. Preachy and on autopilot and nervously clutching that photo album. He's also an anchor so his day job is the outward, confident, extroverted face he seems to be wearing to the world. Also with the prolific tweeting. He's probably using it as a coping mechanism.

    I don't think it's on anyone to police someone else's grief and what is or is not an appropriate reaction to such a horrifying event.

    Policing? It is an observation.

    Fair enough, that's your opinion. I think showing her personal things is highly disrespectful. She was clearly a private person as they had kept their relationship under wraps.

    Turning up to an interview with a scrapbook is downright intrusive.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,298 ✭✭✭moc moc a moc


    Small taxes, like 5 cents a round, seem to be passing legal muster so far.

    The value of a human life in America:

    5 cents.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,683 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    The value of a human life in America:

    5 cents.
    Sure.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,706 ✭✭✭Matt Holck


    carrying trigger devices that can kill someone without reason is taking unnecessary risk and reckless behavior #ferguson

    Ferguson Police
    Put the gun down #ferguson #peace #NSA
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XIvHd76EdQ4


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,257 ✭✭✭BettePorter


    I agree the reaction of the boyf is a little (lot) off! Obviously anyone in such a job has a certain amount of ego and ambition ... its almost as if hes seeing this as his biggest scoop rather than the death of the love of his life. I get people grieve differently .... but seriously if we didn't already know exactly who the killer was ..... id be red flagging the boyf!

    We haven't seen the camera guys fiancee once yet shes been equally bereaved. I think he's being almost crass.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,434 ✭✭✭Robsweezie


    beks101 wrote:
    I don't think it's on anyone to police someone else's grief and what is or is not an appropriate reaction to such a horrifying event.


    Exactly, there is no "how to grieve" handbook. it does different things to different people and if he headed off to twitter for support, then that's his way, however strange it may seem.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,683 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Apropos,

    http://www.theonion.com/article/nation-try-channeling-outrage-over-gun-control-iss-51192?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=SocialMarketing&utm_campaign=LinkPreview:1:Default
    WASHINGTON—Reasoning that it would likely be a much better use of their time and effort, exasperated citizens across the nation announced plans Thursday to try channeling their current outrage over the country’s lack of effective gun control into an issue that can actually be addressed. “We’ve felt this collective indignation so many times before and it’s come to nothing, so maybe if we take all this anger and focus it on something achievable, like repairing our roads or modernizing the electrical grid, we could make some actual progress,” said Atlanta resident Kathryn Greenfield, one of millions of Americans who agreed that there were probably dozens of pressing national issues that could be solved using energy that would simply be wasted trying to limit access to firearms. “Improving care for our veterans or guaranteeing universal preschool education both seem like attainable goals if we wanted to direct our shared aggravation that way, or even something small like cleaning up our national parks. It’d be great if we could just accomplish something here.” At press time, the nation’s outrage had already dissipated too greatly to be capable of influencing public policy in any meaningful way.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,151 ✭✭✭Lirange


    Policing? It is an observation.

    Fair enough, that's your opinion. I think showing her personal things is highly disrespectful. She was clearly a private person as they had kept their relationship under wraps.

    Turning up to an interview with a scrapbook is downright intrusive.

    Disrespectful to who? You did not know her. That is the only thing that is "clear" here.

    You have the cheek to question her loved ones? I don't know what she would have wanted. But I do know that he is in a much better position to ascertain what her wishes would be than you are. If being respectful is as important to you as you claim you might want to begin by being less judgy towards the loved ones of dead strangers.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,955 ✭✭✭Sunflower 27


    Lirange wrote: »
    Disrespectful to who? You did not know her. That is the only thing that is "clear" here.

    You have the cheek to question her loved ones? I don't know what she would have wanted. But I do know that he is in a much better position to ascertain what her wishes would be than you are. If being respectful is as important to you as you claim you might want to begin by being less judgy towards the loved ones of dead strangers.

    All valid points and normally I would totally agree with you,, but this time, no. He seems very self-serving in all tthis. Having read comments on sites online, many others are suggesting he stop making this whole tragic incident about himself.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,955 ✭✭✭Sunflower 27


    Robsweezie wrote: »
    Exactly, there is no "how to grieve" handbook. it does different things to different people and if he headed off to twitter for support, then that's his way, however strange it may seem.

    That's the point, 'however strange'. It sure is strange. The strangest reaction to a death I've seen in a long time, which is why it makes someone question him and his motives.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,536 ✭✭✭Kev W


    All valid points and normally I would totally agree with you,, but this time, no. He seems very self-serving in all tthis. Having read comments on sites online, many others are suggesting he stop making this whole tragic incident about himself.

    You found comments on the Internet criticising a current public figure?
    Such a rare occurrence, there has to be something to it!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,536 ✭✭✭Kev W


    That's the point, 'however strange'. It sure is strange. The strangest reaction to a death I've seen in a long time, which is why it makes someone question him and his motives.

    If this is a strange reaction to having ones fiancee murdered on live television what would be the usual one?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,955 ✭✭✭Sunflower 27


    Kev W wrote: »
    If this is a strange reaction to having ones fiancee murdered on live television what would be the usual one?

    You don't know that yourself, Kev? You really don't know how grief tends to play out when someone loses a loved one?

    OK. I've said my piece and stand by it. No point going around in circles. Something is very wrong with the way this guy is courting the press over his loss. Am sure time will reveal more about this.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,536 ✭✭✭Kev W


    You don't know that yourself, Kev? You really don't know how grief tends to play out when someone loses a loved one?

    I know how I felt when I did. I went to bits when a friend died a few years ago. Others held it together very well. Should I have been suspicious that they reacted differently or should they have been suspicious of me?
    OK. I've said my piece and stand by it. No point going around in circles. Something is very wrong with the way this guy is courting the press over his loss.

    He's not courting the press, he's part of the press.
    Am sure time will reveal more about this.

    I would hate to be so cynical.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,955 ✭✭✭Sunflower 27


    Kev W wrote: »
    I know how I felt when I did. I went to bits when a friend died a few years ago. Others held it together very well. Should I have been suspicious that they reacted differently or should they have been suspicious of me?



    He's not courting the press, he's part of the press.



    I would hate to be so cynical.

    So cynical? Oh, believe me, it is not a normal stance I take in my day to day life, but this time, most definitely yes.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,706 ✭✭✭Matt Holck


    Robsweezie wrote: »
    Exactly, there is no "how to grieve" handbook. it does different things to different people and if he headed off to twitter for support, then that's his way, however strange it may seem.


    I had a couple friends die a couple years go
    since then I've done some public condolences for others
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpaRouocBes


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