Smaller Babies.

kneemos · 28-08-2015 03:08AM #1

Do you think babies are too big for women's bodies? It's a hell of a chore to carry these things never mind childbirth.
It must be an evolutionary fuk up surly given the ease other animals have in giving birth.

Chucken · 28-08-2015 03:19AM

kneemos wrote: »

Do you think babies are too big for women's bodies? It's a hell of a chore to carry these things never mind childbirth.
It must be an evolutionary fuk up surly given the ease other animals have in giving birth.

Give us a list of all the mammals you have seen giving birth?

kneemos · 28-08-2015 03:25AM

Chucken wrote: »

Give us a list of all the mammals you have seen giving birth?

Dogs,Cats,Gerbils,Rabbits,Bizon,Antelope,Giraffe.

Cookie_Monster · 28-08-2015 03:26AM

kneemos wrote: »

Do you think babies are too big for women's bodies? It's a hell of a chore to carry these things never mind childbirth.
It must be an evolutionary fuk up surly given the ease other animals have in giving birth.

it the size of the skull that presents the problems, a smaller / less developed brain is the only around this which would mean stupider people

kneemos · 28-08-2015 03:27AM

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

it the size of the skull that presents the problems, a smaller / less developed brain is the only around this which would mean stupider people

More stupid.

NachoBusiness · 28-08-2015 03:27AM

Women used to give birth with relative ease..

Weston Price, in 'Nutrition and Physical Degeneration', said that he found that child birth only became difficult for generations that were raised on western diets of refined sugar and grains and moved away from traditional diets. Similar observations have been made by other researchers such as Arnold De Vries in 'Primitive Man and His Food'.

Cookie_Monster · 28-08-2015 03:29AM

kneemos wrote: »

More stupid.

less intelligent,

ie stupider

Chucken · 28-08-2015 03:30AM

kneemos wrote: »

Dogs,Cats,Gerbils,Rabbits,Bizon,Antelope,Giraffe.

If I believe you....,women are built to deliver babies

kneemos · 28-08-2015 03:33AM

NachoBusiness wrote: »

Women used to give birth with relative ease..

Weston Price, in 'Nutrition and Physical Degeneration', said that he found that child birth only became difficult for generations that were raised on western diets of refined sugar and grains and moved away from traditional diets. Similar observations have been made by other researchers such as Arnold De Vries in 'Primitive Man and His Food'.

The size of a woman's belly at nine months looks totally out of proportion to the rest of her.
You don't see other animals with such massively distended tummies.

Chucken · 28-08-2015 03:34AM

kneemos wrote: »

The size of a woman's belly at nine months looks totally out of proportion to the rest of her.
You don't see other animals with such massively distended tummies.

Really?

gctest50 · 28-08-2015 03:35AM

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

it the size of the skull that presents the problems............

how bout the rest ?

during an almighty struggle at the 11th hour when his impressive shoulders became stuck,

Because George, weighed a staggering 15lb 7oz when he was born naturally at Gloucester Royal Infirmary, two weeks past his due date.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2301337/What-whopper-At-eye-watering-15lb-7oz-George-thought-biggest-baby-born-naturally-Britain.html

Chucken · 28-08-2015 03:38AM

gctest50 wrote: »

how bout the rest ?

Once the skull is out, the rest is ok.

Women are tough

28-08-2015 03:38AM

I need a definition of "ease" here. It seems to be the word the thread is predicated upon.

28-08-2015 03:41AM

Does happen. My friend is a tiny little woman and had to have a ceasaran (spelling?) because her son was basically too big to fit through her pelvis.

My mother had two big sons, like 9lbsers, and I was a tiny 5lb yoke, she said I almost fell out!

A friend of mine had two daughters no problem but them pregnancy with her son I ended up looking after the girls while she spent days in hospital. He was a big baby. Don't put it down to the sex honestly but yes, there are times that babies are too big for the mother. Back in the "old days" they would have died, and probably mother too, but now we have that modern thing going on.

kneemos · 28-08-2015 03:41AM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I need a definition of "ease" here. It seems to be the word the thread is predicated upon.

Without the need for assistance and relatively pain free.

Peregrinus · 28-08-2015 03:42AM

We're a bit of an evolutionary dead end, in this regard. Yes, giving birth for humans is a lot more physically stressful than for most other mammals (and also a lot more dangerous; if we have to give birth unsupported by modern medical technology, the maternal death rate is much higher than for other mammals).

At the same time, we also give birth to much less developed young. A newborn lamb can stand up unaided within fifteen minutes, and walk within an hour; this takes about a year for a newborn human. And, again, without modern technology the death rate among newborn humans is much higher than among other mammals.

So there's a trade-off here; carry the developing infant for as long as possible, so it will be as developed as possible and as strong as possible when it actually has to cope outside the womb, versus give birth to the infant when it is small enough to pass through the birth canal with the minimum of pain and the maximum of safety. We steer an awkward middle ground where we don't achieve either of these things satisfactorily, but also don't fail as badly as we could.

28-08-2015 03:44AM

kneemos wrote: »

Without the need for assistance and relatively pain free.

two wildly different measures. Which does not bode well for your OP - because you have now made it incumbent upon yourself to show studies of unassisted births AND pain measurement in the two relative subjects.

EITHER of which is a life long pursuit for some people - let alone a relative comparison or merging of the two. So you are really onto a THESIS with this thread. I can not wait to see where it goes

kneemos · 28-08-2015 03:47AM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

two wildly different measures. Which does not bode well for your OP - because you have now made it incumbent upon yourself to show studies of unassisted births AND pain measurement in the two relative subjects.

EITHER of which is a life long pursuit for some people - let alone a relative comparison or merging of the two. So you are really onto a THESIS with this thread. I can not wait to see where it goes

Good luck with that.I only do hearsay and innuendo.

28-08-2015 03:49AM

sexual innuendo I hope. Because that wins just for being funny

Smaller Babies eh - no doubt

Chucken · 28-08-2015 03:52AM

Deleted User wrote: »

sexual innuendo I hope. Because that wins just for being funny Smaller Babies eh - no doubt

twat

magentis · 28-08-2015 04:37AM

Chucken wrote: »

twat

:eek:

PucaMama · 28-08-2015 05:13AM

Is there anything they won't blame our diet for?

As another poster said it's the skull size, which is actually bigger to house a larger brain than other animals all made possible by our access to good amounts of food

NachoBusiness wrote:

Women used to give birth with relative ease..

Weston Price, in 'Nutrition and Physical Degeneration', said that he found that child birth only became difficult for generations that were raised on western diets of refined sugar and grains and moved away from traditional diets. Similar observations have been made by other researchers such as Arnold De Vries in 'Primitive Man and His Food'.

ceadaoin. · 28-08-2015 05:19AM

kneemos wrote: »

Without the need for assistance and relatively pain free.

The first stage of labour where the cervix is dilating is the most painful part. That would be the same no matter how big the baby is. The second stage where the baby is actually coming out isn't that bad.

Women's bodies are designed to give birth, it's very rare that a vaginal delivery is physically impossible. Yes it hurts but that's the trade off for having large brains.

I don't see what diet has to do with it. Babies heads and women's pelvises have always been that size

Teyla Emmagan · 28-08-2015 07:46AM

This is why I advocate smoking during pregnancy. Keep the baby weight low and you're laughing.

kneemos · 28-08-2015 07:54AM

ceadaoin. wrote: »

The first stage of labour where the cervix is dilating is the most painful part. That would be the same no matter how big the baby is. The second stage where the baby is actually coming out isn't that bad.

Women's bodies are designed to give birth, it's very rare that a vaginal delivery is physically impossible. Yes it hurts but that's the trade off for having large brains.

I don't see what diet has to do with it. Babies heads and women's pelvises have always been that size

As I said it's a poor evolutionary design.
Large undeveloped babies that will kill large numbers of women without medical assistance.

kylith · 28-08-2015 08:02AM

It's a combination of the large skulls needed to carry our large brains, and the fact that our pelvises had to alter shape to accommodate bipedal locomotion..

Akrasia · 28-08-2015 08:09AM

NachoBusiness wrote: »

Women used to give birth with relative ease..

Weston Price, in 'Nutrition and Physical Degeneration', said that he found that child birth only became difficult for generations that were raised on western diets of refined sugar and grains and moved away from traditional diets. Similar observations have been made by other researchers such as Arnold De Vries in 'Primitive Man and His Food'.

Bullsh1t

Eugene Norman · 28-08-2015 08:16AM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

two wildly different measures. Which does not bode well for your OP - because you have now made it incumbent upon yourself to show studies of unassisted births AND pain measurement in the two relative subjects.

EITHER of which is a life long pursuit for some people - let alone a relative comparison or merging of the two. So you are really onto a THESIS with this thread. I can not wait to see where it goes

He just has to compare unassisted human birth mortality with other mammals. In any evolutionary book I have read it's clear that humans have difficult births because of the size of the head compared to the size of the pelvis, and part of the solution to that is humans are born prematurely relative to other animals. Some animals can walk after a day or so.

Eugene Norman · 28-08-2015 08:17AM

kneemos wrote: »

As I said it's a poor evolutionary design.
Large undeveloped babies that will kill large numbers of women without medical assistance.

It's good evolutionary "design" because the surviving big brained humans were evolutionary fitter than other humans and animals.

Eugene Norman · 28-08-2015 08:22AM

NachoBusiness wrote: »

Women used to give birth with relative ease..

Weston Price, in 'Nutrition and Physical Degeneration', said that he found that child birth only became difficult for generations that were raised on western diets of refined sugar and grains and moved away from traditional diets. Similar observations have been made by other researchers such as Arnold De Vries in 'Primitive Man and His Food'.

In Homo erectus woman it was a breeze. Not Homo sapiens though.

Akrasia · 28-08-2015 08:25AM

Evolution doesn't design things optimally, it merely selects the best out of a bad set of choices and refines it within the constraints that have developed following on from those choices.

If there was 'intelligent design' then the baby would be delivered directly out of the uterus through some kind of velcro bound opening in the abdomen, but god isn't real and all mammals have a birth canal regardless of their shape, so human females have to negotiate the kink in the delivery process caused when we went from moving on 4 legs to standing upright and the shape of our pelvis allows us better motion than one that would not require the baby to rotate during the birthing process in order to fit through the narrow gap in the pelvis.

It evolved because standing upright gave us an advantage that allowed us to increase our population even at the cost of losing more women and babies in child birth.

Smaller Babies.

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