DCM 2015: Mentored Novices Thread

Myles Splitz · 20-08-2015 03:53PM

This Fat Girl Runs wrote: »

Interestingly, my coach wants me to hit 16-18 miles as my longest run. I've asked her can I go 20 miles for the mental benefit as I'd feel better on the day knowing I've at least hit 20 miles previously. The last 6 would be less of an unknown and less daunting than say 10 miles. So I guess I need to rethink that request!

Having said that, I'm not sure how I feel about the '3 hours' cut off though, seeing how all my LSR's are over 3 hours. My 14 miles this Sunday was 3:38:00. Then again, I'm not planning on running a fast marathon so maybe it doesn't count for me?*

*I was considering not even posting on this issue and slinking away with my tail between my legs hoping no one would notice.

In this case yes 3 hours might be short from the mental aspect as you are only getting over half way which is a long way to leave to the unknown.

However I have noticed from your training that you have incorporated alot of S & C which would help offset some of the injury risk.

* This thread is for you guys more than me so never feel you can't ask a question.

KingMambo26 · 20-08-2015 05:11PM

Dubgal72 wrote: »

Hey KM, sorry to hear you had a meh run (had one myself tonight so full sympathy to you ). So you had got down to PMP because you were feeling good. Perhaps you could take a little positive out of that?
There are going to be days when you just can't 'read' your pace and that's fine...you're only a toddler-level naked runner in the evolutionary scheme of things :pac:
I know it is frustrating to hold yourself back but try tell yourself how great this is next time. I have come to really enjoy the feeling of 'wow I could go so much faster here...but I'm not and I'm going to finish this run feeling strong, not wrecked'. And the bonus is, you get the same value from the run in development terms than if you'd wrecked yourself. More in fact, because you can now approach the race/lsr etc at the weekend with fresh legs.
On a technical level, next time you need to slow down, try maintaining the same cadence but shorten your stride.

Question, was your garmin on average pace or....?

Toddler-level naked runner! I love it!

To answer your question my dear sensei here are my splits for the run. They don't really tell the full story as I spent most of the time struggling to regulate:

1.0 km 06:07 min/km 2.0 km 05:50 min/km 3.0 km 06:18 min/km 4.0 km 06:07 min/km 5.0 km 06:14 min/km 6.0 km 06:13 min/km 7.0 km 05:23 min/km 7.9 km 05:23 min/km
PS. Yesterday's run was much better although fully Garmined

jake1970 · 20-08-2015 06:07PM

yaboya1 wrote: »

This is very impressive Jake. I don't want to tempt fate, but I think you may be able to go quicker than your intended 7:30min/mile on race day. Keep up the good work.

Thanks for that yaboya.
I wish i had the confidence that you seem to have in me.

Now to really disappoint you:), my target for DCM is 3:19:xx which is 7:38 pace. The marathon is a big step into the unknown for me and all the rest of the novices here. Its very hard to pick a target time and what to base that time on. I will have another look at my goal time after the Athlone HM.

ZV Yoda · 20-08-2015 06:10PM

Myles Splitz wrote: »

It's not a matter of which is better it is more a case of balancing risk and reward.

As you get to the 3 hour mark the rate aerobic benefits begin to level off while the injury risk begins to fall off. Our hip stablizing muscles fatigue to the point where we start to rock side to side and slump down on the hip for want of a better description which creates bad movement patterns that makes the risk of injury greater. At this point your asking yourself is an extra mile today worth a niggle for the next 2-3 days or is it a case where stopping today means I can get out running an extra day or two every 2-3 weeks.

Some people will need the mental confidence of the extra few mile and in those cases the reward does outweigh the risk but its balancing mental and physical preparation for the big day.

That's a great post & puts it all in context. Thanks!

ZV Yoda · 20-08-2015 06:13PM

jake1970 wrote: »

Thanks for that yaboya.
I wish i had the confidence that you seem to have in me.

Now to really disappoint you:), my target for DCM is 3:19:xx which is 7:38 pace. The marathon is a big step into the unknown for me and all the rest of the novices here. Its very hard to pick a target time and what to base that time on. I will have another look at my goal time after the Athlone HM.

I'm the same re target time. I picked 4 hrs as a random figure. I expect to have a much better idea after the race series 10 mile & HM. Until I have those two in the bag, I don't know what my realistic DCM target(s) will be.

nop98 · 20-08-2015 06:23PM

nop98 wrote: »

That said, I am seeing the physio later this afternoon anyway, so will definitely mention it. Thanks for the heads-up.

I went to see the physical therapist today (thanks again for the reco, Dubgal). I described the "symptoms", such as they were, and he says: "Ah, the gluteus medius. That will be fun".

Fun, of course, means him digging in mercilessly to release the tightness and me trying very hard not to wince.

But, all has been released, I have my exercises and stretches, and the first observation is that it feels great.

I am going to do a very easy recovery run tomorrow morning, with some gentle strides towards the end, and then I'll see y'all in the Phoenix Park on Saturday!

FeenaM · 20-08-2015 09:38PM

Thanks for all the info re the 3 hour discussion, Myles and Clearlier. I think this will be my Plan B Plan (if that makes sense) for if I start to get niggly at all

Toulouse · 20-08-2015 09:43PM

I need some guidance please!

I'm following the HHN1 plan. I normally start my week on the Monday so the week starting the 31st of August I have 4 miles on Monday, 8 on Tuesday and 4 on the Wednesday.

I'm heading to Electric Picnic on the Friday morning and I had planned to get up at stoopid o' clock to do my 16 mile LSR. I think realistically though that doing that and then having enough energy to drive to Laois, put up a tent and survive the day might be asking a bit much.

Don't get me wrong, if I have to do that then I will but is there another way that I'm just not seeing?

BIRDCAGE1 · 20-08-2015 09:48PM

This Fat Girl Runs wrote: »

For water, I have two of those over the hand bottles. One 300mL for shorter runs (6 miles +) and a 500mL for long runs (10 miles +). Similar to the pic I've attached. I don't even have to really grip it as it just rests on my hand so I barely notice it.

On my long runs I have a belt pouch that a friend lent me for my phone, keys, gels etc. On my last LSR during miles when I didn't really need the water I just looped the belt through the bottle that worked just fine for me.

I've been using one of these bottles for a while now and to be honest its starting to become a bit of a pain having it in my hand the whole time. So I've been looking for something else in the last few weeks. I tried a camelbak 2L back pack I had laying around the house that I used to use for hiking. It turned out to be one of my worst decisions, as the noise of the thing with the water sloshing around was a constant distraction. Now I'm trying to find one of those belts that have 2 or 3 smaller bottles that sit tight in against your back.

My last few short runs I haven't brought any water and I'm loving having both hands free.

ZV Yoda · 20-08-2015 09:54PM

Toulouse wrote: »

I need some guidance please!

I'm following the HHN1 plan. I normally start my week on the Monday so the week starting the 31st of August I have 4 miles on Monday, 8 on Tuesday and 4 on the Wednesday.

I'm heading to Electric Picnic on the Friday morning and I had planned to get up at stoopid o' clock to do my 16 mile LSR. I think realistically though that doing that and then having enough energy to drive to Laois, put up a tent and survive the day might be asking a bit much.

Don't get me wrong, if I have to do that then I will but is there another way that I'm just not seeing?

Ha ha - I'm in the same boat! I was planning to do my 16 miles on the Fri am. I might end up doing it on the Thurs night, but realistically, I know I won't get back out for a run until the following Tues. That'd be a 4 day break, which is prob too much. So, the lesser of two evils is to go with the Fri am & hope I have the energy to stay awake on the Fri night.

There'll be plenty of walking around in Stradbally to keep the legs well exercised anyway!

BIRDCAGE1 · 20-08-2015 09:54PM

Toulouse wrote: »

I need some guidance please!

I'm following the HHN1 plan. I normally start my week on the Monday so the week starting the 31st of August I have 4 miles on Monday, 8 on Tuesday and 4 on the Wednesday.

I'm heading to Electric Picnic on the Friday morning and I had planned to get up at stoopid o' clock to do my 16 mile LSR. I think realistically though that doing that and then having enough energy to drive to Laois, put up a tent and survive the day might be asking a bit much.

Don't get me wrong, if I have to do that then I will but is there another way that I'm just not seeing?

Not sure if I can offer you any advice, but I'm also in a similiar situation the weekend after the 10 Miler. I'm going to a Wedding in Lithuania that weekend and flying out on Friday afternoon. I normally do my LSR on a Saturday morning, so for that week I guess I'm gonna drop one of my short runs during the week and do my LSR on Friday morning - rush home - get ready - and head to the airport. [its my only indulgent weekend between and the DCM]

Toulouse · 20-08-2015 10:12PM

ZV Yoda wrote: »

Ha ha - I'm in the same boat! I was planning to do my 16 miles on the Fri am. I might end up doing it on the Thurs night, but realistically, I know I won't get back out for a run until the following Tues. That'd be a 4 day break, which is prob too much. So, the lesser of two evils is to go with the Fri am & hope I have the energy to stay awake on the Fri night.

There'll be plenty of walking around in Stradbally to keep the legs well exercised anyway!

I do plan on running the following Monday again but yeah, it's a conundrum!! I'm not sure that 3 days running and then an LSR is a good idea either so maybe Friday is the better option??

Hmmm, I just need to stay clear of any welly dancing that weekend. I can't go through what I did last time again!

PJD · 20-08-2015 10:27PM

Toulouse wrote: »

Hmmm, I just need to stay clear of any welly dancing that weekend. I can't go through what I did last time again!

Dont leave us with half a story! What hapened at the welly dance? Come to think about it- what is welly dancing??!!

yaboya1 · 20-08-2015 10:31PM

jake1970 wrote: »

Thanks for that yaboya.
I wish i had the confidence that you seem to have in me.

Now to really disappoint you:), my target for DCM is 3:19:xx which is 7:38 pace. The marathon is a big step into the unknown for me and all the rest of the novices here. Its very hard to pick a target time and what to base that time on. I will have another look at my goal time after the Athlone HM.

In that case, stick with your plan and enjoy it. Everyone says you shouldn't worry too much about the time on your first one, but I don't think you'll have any issue holding your target pace. If you feel strong in the second half, you could always kick on and finish strong with a nice negative split. I'd imagine that feels great. You can tell me what it was like afterwards :P (I'm 0/7 when it comes to negative splits).

Toulouse · 20-08-2015 10:35PM

PJD wrote: »

Dont leave us with half a story! What hapened at the welly dance? Come to think about it- what is welly dancing??!!

Lol PJD, you missed it at the time. I went to Chemical Brothers and danced so hard in my wellies that I couldn't walk properly for days (still ran though) and the Physio had to dry needle both my calves while telling me how much she hated dance music. Not my finest or most pain free hour!

laura_ac3 · 20-08-2015 10:38PM

Pretty sure I saw mrsmc looking strong ticking along this evening!

Best of luck to everyone doing Frank Duffy this weekend. It's probably already been mentioned but keep a small bit in the tank for the last hill in the last mile. It's not that bad at all but if you get the pacing right you'll get a big mental boost of going past many others struggling. What I used to distract me was just pick someone ahead that you can reel in, then another, keep that going and before you know it it'll be over.

Very jealous of you all, enjoy it as well

yaboya1 · 20-08-2015 10:54PM

laura_ac3 wrote: »

Pretty sure I saw mrsmc looking strong ticking along this evening!

I see the eyesight is still as good as ever Laura.......:)

Singer · 20-08-2015 10:56PM

The weather is looking decent enough for Saturday - though there's a chance of rain: http://www.yr.no/place/Ireland/Leinster/Dublin/hour_by_hour.html

How about meeting up to the right of the finishing line... not too far from the finishing line, past all the water/bananas/t-shirts etc., but well before the various tents?

I've drawn an extremely precise diagram :cool:

sseairtricitydublinmarathon_ie_wp-content_uploads_2015_04_SSE-AT-DRS15-FD10M-MAP_pdf.png?raw=1

sseairtricitydublinmarathon_ie_wp-content_uploads_2015_04_SSE-AT-DRS15-FD10M-MAP_pdf.png?raw=1

I'll be wearing a grey adidas running t-shirt wearing number 14!

Toulouse - you're on flapjack duty, yeh?

It wasnt me123 · 20-08-2015 10:57PM

BIRDCAGE1 wrote: »

Now I'm trying to find one of those belts that have 2 or 3 smaller bottles that sit tight in against your back.

On sale in Lidl at the moment - I got mine in Aldi a few years ago, they're a great little belt, with a pouch for your keys/gels etc.

Toulouse · 20-08-2015 10:59PM

Singer wrote: »

Toulouse - you're on flapjack duty, yeh?

Hahaha, you looper! Nice diagram!

Sounds good to me, yep, I'll be the one with the flapjacks! First person to tell me what's in them wins.........another flapjack!!

Mrs Mc · 20-08-2015 11:04PM

laura_ac3 wrote: »

Pretty sure I saw mrsmc looking strong ticking along this evening!

Best of luck to everyone doing Frank Duffy this weekend. It's probably already been mentioned but keep a small bit in the tank for the last hill in the last mile. It's not that bad at all but if you get the pacing right you'll get a big mental boost of going past many others struggling. What I used to distract me was just pick someone ahead that you can reel in, then another, keep that going and before you know it it'll be over.

Very jealous of you all, enjoy it as well

Sure what else would I be doing these days Laura didn't see you sorry did a loop of Howth road watermill rd coast road so if you saw me there it was me ! Legs feeling a lot better tonight.

Mrs Mc · 20-08-2015 11:08PM

Toulouse wrote: »

Hahaha, you looper! Nice diagram!

Sounds good to me, yep, I'll be the one with the flapjacks! First person to tell me what's in them wins.........another flapjack!!

Where you going to put them !!!! PJD might have room in his belt !!!

PJD · 20-08-2015 11:14PM

Mrs Mc wrote: »

Where you going to put them !!!! PJD might have room in his belt !!!

Feck the belt... I'm bringing the rucksack! Yum!

Toulouse · 20-08-2015 11:20PM

Mrs Mc wrote: »

Where you going to put them !!!! PJD might have room in his belt !!!

Haha!!

PJD wrote: »

Feck the belt... I'm bringing the rucksack! Yum!

Hope they turn out okay now

laura_ac3 · 20-08-2015 11:36PM

Mrs Mc wrote: »

Sure what else would I be doing these days Laura didn't see you sorry did a loop of Howth road watermill rd coast road so if you saw me there it was me ! Legs feeling a lot better tonight.

I was driving down Sybil hill. As yaboya has alluded to my people spotting vision has a poor track record so I didn't beep the horn and wave like a maniac from the car

Mrs Mc · 20-08-2015 11:38PM

laura_ac3 wrote: »

I was driving down Sybil hill. As yaboya has alluded to my people spotting vision has a poor track record so I didn't beep the horn and wave like a maniac from the car

Pity distraction helps the miles tick away ! Although it was a short run tonight to a lot easier to get out the door!

diego_b · 20-08-2015 11:45PM

5.5 miles completed tonight....starting at the Apple green petrol station on the Clonskeagh Road, a little trot up the Clonskeagh road (and it does feel like a little drag upwards there)...taking a left turn onto Roebuck Road, up that little oul hill (I found that okay but I hadn't run 20miles at that point, it is reasonably short as hills go in comparison to the west of the country that I live/run in these days). Left turn then and the nice downhill that is Fosters Avenue. Onto the Stillorgan dual carriageway, over the UCD flyover....another trot for a few mins more than down Nutley lane....again enjoyed the little downhill that felt to be. Left then onto Merrion Road, straight on through Ballsbridge...past the RDS and then the final mile or so to finish at Merrion Sq. That was the last 5.5miles or so of the DCM 2015 route which I ran with a mate this evening, we didn't get started until 7:15pm which is a bit later than I normally run these days but as I was up to Dublin for the night I wanted to get some of the route in. It was pretty warm tonight as well but was grand enough throughout.

Avg pace was 9:48min/mi
Avg heart rate was 154bpm
Splits
10:12
9:42
9:34
9:41
9:50

Have to say I found it odd running in an urban environment again as it's been quite a while, I've gotten used to just the cows in the fields for company and even those friendly Kerry dogs. I will be up again towards the end of September and hope to do all going well do my 20 mile LSR...as I was suggested before maybe a few might fancy meeting up to do that.

One issue for me this evening is my right Achilles is a bit sore since my run yesterday at lunchtime, there was half a mile in that run of a good hill to run up so maybe I have hurt it a bit. Not the first time I have ever felt it, normally the kinda thing I get after astro soccer (but been month since I played and felt this). Oddly it's fine to run with but I can feel it a bit walking. I have a physio appointment booked for Tuesday morning anyways for a sports massage but wondering am I safe to do my lsr this weekend even it stays as is...tomorrow is a rest day but guess I could leave my run till Sunday to do an extra days rest if needs be.

nop98 · 21-08-2015 12:00AM

Singer wrote: »

The weather is looking decent enough for Saturday - though there's a chance of rain: http://www.yr.no/place/Ireland/Leinster/Dublin/hour_by_hour.html

How about meeting up to the right of the finishing line... not too far from the finishing line, past all the water/bananas/t-shirts etc., but well before the various tents?

I've drawn an extremely precise diagram :cool:

I'll be wearing a grey adidas running t-shirt wearing number 14!

Toulouse - you're on flapjack duty, yeh?

Splendid drawing, Singer

next to the big blue bottle it is!

I'll be the one wearing a bright orange t-shirt (#4119 I believe). I am conceding the bake-off to the experts, sorry aquinn

nop98 · 21-08-2015 12:05AM

diego_b wrote: »

5.5 miles completed tonight....starting at the Apple green petrol station on the Clonskeagh Road, a little trot up the Clonskeagh road (and it does feel like a little drag upwards there)...taking a left turn onto Roebuck Road, up that little oul hill (I found that okay but I hadn't run 20miles at that point, it is reasonably short as hills go in comparison to the west of the country that I live/run in these days). Left turn then and the nice downhill that is Fosters Avenue. Onto the Stillorgan dual carriageway, over the UCD flyover....another trot for a few mins more than down Nutley lane....again enjoyed the little downhill that felt to be. Left then onto Merrion Road, straight on through Ballsbridge...past the RDS and then the final mile or so to finish at Merrion Sq. That was the last 5.5miles or so of the DCM 2015 route which I ran with a mate this evening, we didn't get started until 7:15pm which is a bit later than I normally run these days but as I was up to Dublin for the night I wanted to get some of the route in. It was pretty warm tonight as well but was grand enough throughout.

Avg pace was 9:48min/mi
Avg heart rate was 154bpm
Splits
10:12
9:42
9:34
9:41
9:50

Have to say I found it odd running in an urban environment again as it's been quite a while, I've gotten used to just the cows in the fields for company and even those friendly Kerry dogs. I will be up again towards the end of September and hope to do all going well do my 20 mile LSR...as I was suggested before maybe a few might fancy meeting up to do that.

One issue for me this evening is my right Achilles is a bit sore since my run yesterday at lunchtime, there was half a mile in that run of a good hill to run up so maybe I have hurt it a bit. Not the first time I have ever felt it, normally the kinda thing I get after astro soccer (but been month since I played and felt this). Oddly it's fine to run with but I can feel it a bit walking. I have a physio appointment booked for Tuesday morning anyways for a sports massage but wondering am I safe to do my lsr this weekend even it stays as is...tomorrow is a rest day but guess I could leave my run till Sunday to do an extra days rest if needs be.

Good work diego_b, nice to get a preview of part of the route. We should definitely try and get a meet going for that 20M run - I hope to be around for that.

Look after those niggles - as our mentor says, the sharp-end of the training has arrived and the next 6 weeks are going to expose any weaknesses.

Mrs Mc · 21-08-2015 08:03AM

diego_b wrote: »

5.5 miles completed tonight....starting at the Apple green petrol station on the Clonskeagh Road, a little trot up the Clonskeagh road (and it does feel like a little drag upwards there)...taking a left turn onto Roebuck Road, up that little oul hill (I found that okay but I hadn't run 20miles at that point, it is reasonably short as hills go in comparison to the west of the country that I live/run in these days). Left turn then and the nice downhill that is Fosters Avenue. Onto the Stillorgan dual carriageway, over the UCD flyover....another trot for a few mins more than down Nutley lane....again enjoyed the little downhill that felt to be. Left then onto Merrion Road, straight on through Ballsbridge...past the RDS and then the final mile or so to finish at Merrion Sq. That was the last 5.5miles or so of the DCM 2015 route which I ran with a mate this evening, we didn't get started until 7:15pm which is a bit later than I normally run these days but as I was up to Dublin for the night I wanted to get some of the route in. It was pretty warm tonight as well but was grand enough throughout.

Avg pace was 9:48min/mi
Avg heart rate was 154bpm
Splits
10:12
9:42
9:34
9:41
9:50

Have to say I found it odd running in an urban environment again as it's been quite a while, I've gotten used to just the cows in the fields for company and even those friendly Kerry dogs. I will be up again towards the end of September and hope to do all going well do my 20 mile LSR...as I was suggested before maybe a few might fancy meeting up to do that.

One issue for me this evening is my right Achilles is a bit sore since my run yesterday at lunchtime, there was half a mile in that run of a good hill to run up so maybe I have hurt it a bit. Not the first time I have ever felt it, normally the kinda thing I get after astro soccer (but been month since I played and felt this). Oddly it's fine to run with but I can feel it a bit walking. I have a physio appointment booked for Tuesday morning anyways for a sports massage but wondering am I safe to do my lsr this weekend even it stays as is...tomorrow is a rest day but guess I could leave my run till Sunday to do an extra days rest if needs be.

If you foam roll the calves and spend a good 15 mins stretching before the LSR I have found that helps my Achilles. I also put tiger balm on my calves before LSR think it has the same effect as the hot water bottle on the calf that Kennyg mentions. I've an inflamed Achilles which is related to tightness in my calf so regular sports massage and physio dry needling usually sorts it out.

DCM 2015: Mentored Novices Thread

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