The Irish language is failing.

A interesting thread but ....Two posters who seem a wee bit fanatical in their own way now reduced to dragging up posts to see who said (or did not say)what the other poster imagined they said. Oíche mhaith.

Dughorm wrote: »

That's all quite reasonable - I would see compulsory Irish as a starting point rather than an end in itself. But any significant increase in Irish policy-pushing would require funding that successive governments have decided against - so it looks like Irish is trapped in a stalemate from a structural point of view.

From the point of view of the learner, there's never been a wider variety of interesting resources - so it depends from what perspective you look at it.

Compulsion Irish does not work. It hasnt' worked in 80 years. And now you want tro use it as a "starting point"...??

All the resources in the world don't work - this is preaching to the connverted again - if the learner is reluctant. And again, your best idea is to force it.

This post very much illustrates what I mean by "stubborn".

DyldeBrill wrote: »

Some of the Irish speaking community can be very like this yes, but as I said before this is a minority within a minority and it can give the language a bad name. I've witnessed, and have argued with this type of stubbornness in the past and sometimes things are better left unsaid. There is a need for compromise especially in this day of age.

I wouldn't say the majority of them preach either (although maybe in your experience they have) and sometimes you have to distinguish between preaching and defending the language and I've found the two can be mixed especially in this thread.

Therein lies your problem. The stubborness wins out, the minority wins, the status quo remains.

Dughorm wrote: »

It would have to be in any widespread policy change to promote the language in my opinion.

But I don't think Irish should be mandatory in the hope of a "widespread cultural policy change" - I think it's a necessary part of a liberal arts education in Ireland with the other mandatory subjects.

This is an education policy, not an Irish lanaguge policy.

You can't have compulsion anything as part of a "liberal arts" anything. This has been pointed out: liberal means freedom. In any case, you could drop Irish and take French or German or even Latin and let the student choose for themsleves. THAT Would be a liberal arts educationn.

The key point here is that the learner is reluctant. If the learner is reluctant to learn maths then all the resources won't work for them either. It follows from your argument that people shouldn't learn subjects they're reluctant to learn and that all subjects should be optional. That's a reasonable position as I've said previously... but not one that has been proposed by any party as far as I know.

So what?

We're back to square one. Force them for the sake of force. Somethign should be compulsory, we don't care what.

This is the exact opposite of a liberal arts education.

Deleted User wrote: »

Maith thú.

Ní bhfuair mise ach C, ach tá Gaeilge agam. Bhí béim ar scríbhneoireacht in ionad caint san aois sin, faraor.

Is dócha go bhfuil sí go fóill agatsa freisin - cosúil le seoid atá i bhfolach agat.

.. --. --- - .- -.. --- -. .- .--. .- ... ... -.-. --- ..- .-. ... .

Mod note: Hiya, when you post in another language (except for the forums dedicated to those, like Teach na nGalt with Irish, for example), you need to provide translation for it in English so people can understand it.
I know what you said didn't break any rules so this is just a friendly reminder.
Cheers, Tombi!

Un Croissant wrote: »

Just watching the news and the Irish language is failing, even in the Gaeltacht.

I dont want to get into a debate with the misty eyed brigade about Irish being our first language etc.

Languages are only relevant if they are used. History or nationalism doesn't appear to be enough.

So with that in mind, how can we improve the position of Irish? Do we want to?

While it will never be our first language again, considering mass culture and the internet age, is there a case to be made for a strong second language?

Or should we look elsewhere? I guess I'm inviting the "let's all learn Chinese" gang to join the discussion.

The Irish language is failing? Really? In my opinion, the language failed a long time ago! To be honest, I'm not trying to be controversial, there is no need for the language anymore, not with the changes that have happened and continue to happen, for example the Celtic Tiger Era, piles and piles of foreigners came and settled here, their kids started to attend English speaking schools, the recession happened, most fluent Irish speakers moved away to Australia and America, new generation of Irish people are not mixed, Eastern Europeans and the rest, no interest in learning a forgotten language. We don't realize how lucky we are as native English speakers, we are one of the 7 native speaking countries in the world, thousands and thousands of internation students come to Ireland every year to learn English and businesses expand on Irish shores, knowing well that they can create international business linking Ireland with those distant countries, bringing in billions in revenue. I know some people will say but it's our language, tradition, etc....but we have to face reality., we haven't used Irish as a first language for close to 900 years, so it's time pointless looking at the buts and what ifs!!!! English is expanding all over the globe at an extreme rate, languages are being marginalized and shadowed, look at Asia now, look at South America, most people are now bilingual, refusing to use their native language anymore, especially for work,70% of internation trade is dealt with in English, and this number is rising. I recently met a guy from Hungary and his wife is Polish, their kid doesn't speak Hungarian or Polish, he only speaks English. My close group of friends, one is Indian, Lithuanian, Chinese and Indonesian, as you may guess none of their children speak their native language, and this will not change. It's looking like a generation or 2 or maybe 3, we will see one universal language, everything else may get wiped out!