DCM 2015: Mentored Novices Thread

So....last week of double figures, next week the final countdown....

REVIEW
Last week saw some great lsr reports rolling in. Diego b posted that he really sees this group gelling and that we are learning so much from each other. I second that, thank you to everyone who takes the time (novices and boardsies) to tell their story, offer advice, commiserations and congratulations. It is all wholeheartedly appreciated.
Chickey2 (a 2014 graduate) wisely recommended that, where possible we familiarise ourselves with the Route...So Denis b gave us an excellent course snippet from his lsr on Saturday.
So the plan is, he runs a section every week and reports back in minute detail on every aspect of the course....right, Denis?! Ok, on a serious note, over the next few weeks there should be enough novices covering a section of the course that we can compile a course report to rival Tunguska's :pac:
And we also followed previous weeks' fuel and food discussions with a logical progression to water intake with a question from PJD.

Most of you seem to be training five days per week. Four is grand but that extra day will make a difference come the 26th.

HELLO AND GOODBYE
We said goodbye to The Slow One during the week who due to health problems has had to put marathon plans on hold. We wish you the very best TSO for a full recovery and of course return to running when you're ready. Keep in touch

We also saw Rega, conor mc and BIRDCAGE1 come on board. Welcome guys and looking forward to getting to know you.

TRUSTING IN THE PLAN
We've had some discussion about 'plan confidence' and I imagine that a lot of doubts start to creep in as you see so-and-so do this many miles per week and somebody else doing speedwork and another doing other-kinds-of-training-that-you're-not-why-aren't-I?? :eek: The important thing to come out of this discussion was
- YOUR plan is for YOU and is grand
- trust in the plan
- trust in yourself
- different plans work for different people (see first point )
So
1) Stick to YOUR plan (within reason, life has a nasty tendency to happen :rolleyes:)
2) keep the progressive structure in mind (leap stones)
3) if you miss anything, try not to miss the lsrs

And you will be fine. Ok

NIGGLES
frash (on holidays :rolleyes:), eyeball kid and jake seem to be ok after last week's niggles but phoebas, araic88, neilthefunkeone, PJD, The Bazman and PJD (with a furniture-moving fail) have stepped up with their scares. Hope you're all out of the danger zone folks....
Marathon training is going to bring its fair share of 'niggle -> injury fear' and closer to the time, you will at times feel on tenterhooks. You can control this ("control the controllables") by paying attention to your body's signals, stretching and foam rolling as required, resting and recovering....and:

SPORTS MASSAGE
We've also had some discussion about the value (monetary and non-monetary) of a regular sports massage. Get that therapist on speed dial novices!

SEXY SWINGING MICKEYS...
As whoopsa put it so succinctly :pac: At least you guys don't have Eamonn Coghlan's problem back in the day....
During the week, there was a discussion re *support undies* for men and it reminded me of Eamonn Coghlan's similar dilemma.
It happened in 1981, before built-in support was available in men's shorts.
During his collegiate Villanova years in the early 70s, jock straps were communal and a clean/laundered batch was provided for each training session. So later in his career, he heard that new, inbuilt support shorts by adidas would be available for the IAAF World Cup in Rome...and didn't bring his own jock strap.... :rolleyes:
The wife of BLE's international secretary very kindly provided the blushing Eamonn with a last minute jock for his 5000m but had also very kindly overestimated his size: cup and waist
And of course the safety pin came loose and he spent the first 8 laps trailing badly whilst trying to retain some semblance of dignity - even running one-handed at times only to say to himself "This is bull****" with four laps to go and let it go (literally) to storm home with a 52 second final lap to win....plastered all over the Italian papers next day, arms outstretched and a jock strap dangling between his legs...
So ratracer, you think you got problems??!! :pac:

TOENAILS
We've also had another toenail casualty from FeenaM but some great advice including the lock lace tip from ZV Yoda and some helpful lacing diagrams from Jotunheim, thanks guys


HR TRAINING
there have been a few heart rate training queries. Hopefully these posts will help (thanks Clearlier and meno), don't hesitate to come back with any more queries

Clearlier establishing your HR test post
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=93034087&postcount=129


Meno HR zones for marathon training
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=96588550&postcount=2852

Heart rate training zones
http://www.runningforfitness.org/calc/heart-rate-calculators/hrtp


MISSED TRAINING
It is inevitable that for many, some training will be missed...even the cornerstone lsrs. Have a look at TRR's post re missed training to put your mind at rest:

"Sounds reasonable but at the same time no harm in reducing the intensity or length of runs the first week or two when you are getting back into it. You have roughly xx days to go, that's loads of time. Don't push it too hard or you won't make the start line. "

Look at the training you missed and try put it into context. It will amount to about 5% of your entire marathon plan. When I sit down and do out a training plan I hope that I can cover 90% of it. There will be days that you miss through sickness, work, tiredness, life etc. Just accept these and concentrate on what you have done and what you will do rather than what you haven't done. If you get to the start line healthy, this last week or so won't even register!"

Above all, don't play 'catch up'...when it's gone, it's gone... "Let it go...."

GARMIN MEGATHREAD *yawn*
Some of you might need this along the way....

THE WEEK AHEAD

See this post for clarification of the week ahead

Those of you running/racing the FD10 will find lots of useful info from previous years' threads here and here

There has been a bit of target discussion today re Saturday. Targets can be a misleading word and we should probably try to replace it with 'range', especially for a first or second outing at a particular distance.
Two pieces of advice from me:
START CONSERVATIVELY
much better to finish strong than burn out
STAY FLEXIBLE
Anything can - and will - happen on the day. Have a plan B and C too. So between plans A, B and C, you have a range within which to work.

Same goes for marathon day but more about that over the next few weeks. Not hitting a target can lead to extreme despondency and 26 miles is a long way to feel despondent....

LOW POINTS

Nop's early bird lsr report offered some great advice about 'keeping the head down (*up*), smiling and just running' when hitting some low spots. Which leads us nicely to....

FFTW: STAYING POSITIVE

TFGR got the ball rolling with this and were followed by some excellent observations and suggestions from saucyjack:

"That really got me thinking.....how we remember the supporters. In DCM 13 I reached the bottom of Fosters Avenue about M20.5 ..just dying on my feet and nearly stopped when I ran toward this really beautiful young woman on the corner of fosters avenue/merrion road. She was in a wheelchair on the path and I'll never forget her *****ng roaring at me to catch up (was dropping behind the 4:30 pace group I think). I'll never forget it..not in a 'there but for the grace...' kind of way because later it made me wonder if , in her position, I'd have the generosity of spirit to go our and shout everyone on. Not sure still.....but you're right - this marathon thing sure changes how we think."

Great positive thoughts from Firedance and annapr amongst others so stand tall, suck that core in and watch yourself soar over that finish line on October 26th

Off to the beach for the Last Day of Summer, any urgent queries fielded to the team TIA

jake1970 wrote: »

Up untill this morning i would of said that so far everything is fine, i actually like running long runs. This morning i went out for a 5 mile recovery run and i had to abandon ship after a few yards because of a pain in my right calf. I will probably try another run in the morning just to see if there is any improvement, it only hurts when i run on it.The earliest Physio appointment i can get is saturday morning.
I really cant afford to miss any time from training as im only doing a 12 week plan, hopefully its nothing to serious.

Oh dear Jake, I winced after reading that...can you swim or aqua jog in the meantime? Have a look online for some aqua jogging tutorials if you think that will suit, it will at keast keep you ticking over if you can't run between now and Saturday.

JacEim wrote: »

After my half marathon race run on Sunday my feet started to feel quite sore. Had been reading the reports about ice baths etc so decided to 'treat' myself to an ice footbath. Of course I did it completely a*seways but have to say the effect has been brilliant. I basically dumped a load of ice into a basin with some cold water so the effective temperature was probably not more than 4-5 degrees C when I've read since that the temp should be closer to 8-10C
I was only able to put my feet in for around a minute at a time - until I basically felt a type of pain I had never experienced before. I repeated this about 5 times (it didn't get much easier tbh)
Yesterday my feet felt absolutely great and the niggle I had been waking up to every morning on the top of my foot had also eased.
So, I think I'm going to be a convert to proper ice baths (after the LSR's especially).
Not surprisingly the legs were sore after the HM but not the DOMS I was expecting.
Mon: 5k 34mins (recovery run)
Tues: 1m w/u, 12 x 200m @ 4.00 pace with 200m rec at 6.00, 2M c/d. The longer strides on the intervals were great to stretch the legs!

Rest of week is steady 6 ish M runs... With my longest ever run of 16M scheduled for Sunday (2M longer than ever run before)
A big question to be answered between now and then is to think about my pace for this - do I pace this based on my 4hr target or do I adjust and run it based on a 3.45 target (or does it make a difference either way?)

Hi JacEim, glad to hear the recovery's going well after your exertions at the weekend Brave man doing the ice bath! I think Myles Splitz posted something to do with new thinking on icing injuries (timing/length of icing) and I wonder if a similar approach applies to icing after sessions?
You're following the asics sub 4 programme aren't you? Are those strides a usual feature of the plan? When you say 4 pace, I'm guessing you mean 4m/km? Sorry, you're talking to one o dem damn imperialists
For your lsr, I'm thinking that a lsr based on a sub 4 would have you in the range of 6:04-6:31km and a 3:45 would have you at 5:45-6:13km so you could split the difference and range it from 6:25/km starting out and ease into it until you feel warmed up and comfortable down to 5.5x.
Take it easy for this first jump in lsr, especially as you've had niggles this weekend. If it goes well, you can always think about progressing down the paces further but for now, focus on the slow-twitch conversion side of things

Chilli Con Kearney wrote: »

Hi guys.
Did my 18 mile lsr on Saturday which was good I think.
How are people finding the extra mile or two on the lsr as we build up towards 20? After the 14 mile run my legs were very sore and a bit after the 16 again. I was very worried that I might not be able to build up over 20. Is everyone else hurting towards the end? Is it just something we have to get used to or are others flying it?? Thanks.

Sorry nearly missed you chilli! Just to echo what others have said, the last two miles aren't going to be very comfortable, no matter how slow you've been running. This is normal and shows you're doing it right It's all carefully scaffolded so no week jumps too far, you won't be given anything you can't manage.

mobfromcork wrote: »

I don't want to pace too fast and blow up at 20 miles or go too slowly and not do all my training justice.

Thanks
Mark

Hi Mark, one final thought on your post: you are right, there is a very real danger of pacing too fast and blowing up however, pacing too slow will only be an advantage whichever way you look at it: by pacing too slow at the start, you will be able to maintain pace throughout, probably even running the mythical negative split and you will finish so strong...There can't be any better feeling than finishing your first marathon feeling strong. That, IMO, would be doing not only your training justice, but most of all yourself!

neilthefunkeone wrote: »

Run abandoned after 2 miles last night.. Same issue that popped up during weekends LSR. So i'm giving myself another night off tonight.. and see Wednesday evening

Then i don't know, Go see a physio, take the week off, take the leg off??!!

+1 to FD, I think we should all release our inner hypochondriac during marathon training and see someone if there's no improvement after 3-4 days.

jake1970 wrote: »

I got up this morning, no noticeable pain, stretched and foam rolled, some discomfort while foam rolling but nothing more than the norm. Threw on the runners and went for a 6 mile run (3 miles on grass). Started out slow and increased the pace to general aerobic pace(8:45). The pain was there at the start but nothing like yesterdays pain and the further i went the pain lessened and by the time i got home i was running freely. Rest day tomorrow and i will probably go for a run Thursday, rest Friday, physio Saturday.
I dont normally foam roll or stretch before runs but i did today and also i wore a newer pair of runners today, the pair i wore yesterday had over 400 miles on them. I dont know if that makes a difference but at least i was able to run today.
.

Good to hear Jake. Just goes to show, everybody's niggles are different. Nevertheless, monitor this carefully. Your body is telling you something.... If the pain doesn't go away while running or indeed increases, stop and get it seen to. Best of!

This Fat Girl Runs wrote: »

Went for my sports massage tonight. All is well!

Well, ok it's as well as can be expected! He worked on my calves, achilles, hamstrings and back, neck and shoulders.

Legs are pretty good, he seemed surprised they weren't in worse shape. Couple of awkward spots with knots and such but he worked away on those and loosened things up. Had me do some calf stretches as well. Achilles are fine, left one a little tight but nothing to be concerned about.

Back, neck and shoulders are in bits but I've been in chronic pain for the last 25 years so I'm not surprised! My trape...trapezo...trape-something is all knots and will need lots of work. Lots of knots around the spine but it all stems from an old injury from when I was 13 years old. Anyway, it's not a lost cause so he'll keep working on it over the next few months as I go back.

Nothing he did was too terribly painful and the few really tough spots he eased up a little. All in all it was effective but I'll know tomorrow how it goes on my run! He said I should be ok to run given the state of my legs was better than expected.

I completely forgot to ask about k-tape!

Next appointment is mid-September and he'll work on my quads then too but in the meantime I'll see how things go and if I need to book in earlier he said that would be ok. Am starting to think about pre and post-marathon work as well.

Going to blog a more detailed report in the next few days for anyone interested.

Ah good, glad to hear it went well. You know we're disappointed tho...we wanted more gore