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Current status: https://keepboardsalive.com/
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DCM 2015: Mentored Novices Thread
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Hey guys, late to the thread despite being a lurker for the past couple of months, but I eventually plucked up the courage to mention DCM 2015 to the better half.... I think she was just relieved that there was some method to my increasingly-long-training-run madness!
1.What is your athletics background? Have you run before? What other sports have you taken part in and at what level?
Never played any sport seriously when younger - a mix of rugby at school, GAA for a few months here and there at home, etc. Started playing 5-a-side once a week about 5 years ago.
Bought a bike in 2012 and started cycling to work, then did a small bit of jogging. A workplace bet became a triathlon in 2013, which ended up being 3 triathlons and the Dublin Half that summer. Only did a couple of races last summer due to ITBS, then a combination of changing jobs left me too distant from the gym/swimming pool for regular sessions, plus I had to send my bike off to the manufacturer for a repair. Long story short, I did a lot of running (for me anyway!) early this year.
2.Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs? (Date and distance please!)
Dublin Half 2013 - can't remember exactly, but about 2:05. Absolutely wicked hot day, and I had stepped up to the distance from 10k too quickly, relying on swim/bike fitness to pull me through.
Raheny 5-Mile 2015 - 39:40, early start to the season for me, as I usually only get my backside in gear around May/June!
Raheny Shamrocks 10m on Easter Monday - 1:16:40.
10k last Saturday - 47:41... but the warmup was a 1500m swim and a 40k bike!
3.Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training ? (No problem if you do)
Nope
4.How much training do you currently do incl cross training? Distances, cross training - whatever you think is relevant to your current fitness level.
Started the year running a 3.75m lunchtime loop 2-3 times a week. Have gradually built up the weekend long runs, did 17m last night. The lunchtime runs are a bit quick (running with a couple of colleagues) so I've started to sacrifice a bit of distance to cut some of them back to 3m recovery runs. Swim once a week with the tri club. Cycle to work (12km) occasionally.
5.How many days a week do you run only?
Usually manage 4 times a week, 5 occasionally. Trying to step up to 5 on a regular basis now.
6.What do you want to achieve? Dream finishing time and realistic finishing time? Or just complete it in no specified time?
Going off my Easter 10m time, McMillan reckons a 3:32 is possible, so I'd happily take a 3:45 as my dream time. Under 4 hours is realistic I think.
7.What marathon programme are you following/intending to use?
I've loosely tracked the Boards plan so far, I started a few weeks early and then missed a few LSR's due to holidays and a triathlon last weekend. I'll pick it up properly from here on in.0 -
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So.... I have a confession to make.
> I did a race.
> But I was wasn't going to race the race
> But I raced the race anyway. Or at least, I gave it a real hard go.
When the Bere Island parkrun (http://www.parkrun.ie/bereisland/) was announced a year ago, I knew I had to go and run it at some stage. I am fascinated with islands, and I like running, so it seems to add up
A few months ago, we decided we'd holiday in West Cork with the express purpose to do the parkrun on Bere Island as part of the trip.
Long story short, about 70-80 folks stood shivering at the start in Rerrin, Bere Island, Beara, Co Cork, this morning, me included, proudly wearing a bright orange t-shirt (pretty sure I'm the first Dutch participant), as well as my better half. Kids and their grandparents were mingling with the volunteers at race HQ and under instructions to snap pictures (not that they did
).
I was half telling myself to take it easy but I knew I hadn't travelled this far just to jog around. I had planned to do this race even before committing to the Connemara Half in April, let alone DCM. Since I had to slightly alter the boards.ie plan anyway, to account for the holidays, I made sure I could fit it in, with a rest day after this week's LSR and a rest day tomorrow, and I had skipped one of the easier runs to make space in the calendar (see how I'm trying to escape Dubgal's wrath, in-vain, I fear...). Besides, the week marathon training in West Cork had gone really well and I felt/feel in great shape.
When the start came, two lads in red t-shirts set off at record pace. Myself and 4 others set after them, and within a few hundred meters, that was all the competitors I would see all race. The route has a nasty, nasty first km, a long hard drag, which has you gasping for air before you even got going. I was in 7th place when it finally levelled out and happy enough. I could see all the runners in front of me and knew I was going to catch one of the early leaders soon. I overtook him, and a young fella, before the 2km mark.
I couldn't believe I was 5th in a race but I knew I wasn't going to improve on it. Another young lad in front of me was only inching away, and a quick look over the shoulder learned I had nothing to fear. Still, I kept going as hard as I could.
Halfway between the third and fourth km marker, the young fella suddenly pulled over and started stretching. I reached him and managed "uualllwrighh", which he must have correctly taken for "are you alright" since he gave me a thumbs up and said to keep going. He soon caught up with me again. The 4th km is another b*tch of a drag, but as soon as we crested, I knew it was all downhill (having done a photo-recce that hillsiderunner would be proud of) from here so I put the hammer down. I caught the young fella again and shame-on-me, had no pity and didn't even look back.
Almost at the end, the course is back in the village and there's a very steep little uphill (sorry hillside, missed that) which nearly killed me. I took the last right turn and there was an official clock at the finishline, 22m0x when I could see it. I pressed as hard as I could and fell over the line, forgetting to garmin, in 22m27s. This, I add proudly, is a 3 second PB over 5k.
The red-topped guy that had led from start to finish came over and said something. It took a few seconds to get the Corkish-to-English(-to-Dutch) transliterator plugin to my brain to reboot but he says "you're third, well done". I reply, "no no, there's another guy in front of me, I'm sure of it, I'm 4th", and it turns out that guy took a wrong turn somewhere. So, to my disbelief, I was third. :eek::cool::D
My better half arrived soon after, we had coffee and cakes in the local village, chatted with the locals, and took the ferry back. Great day out, I can thoroughly recommend it, once we all nail DCM, I hasten to add.
Bere Island parkrun, 22m27s (PB :pac:), 4:29 min/km [7:12 min/mi].
Km-splits: 4:32, 4:41, 4:20, 4:56, 3:59
Well done on the PB nop, thats a great run on what looks like a very tough route. As Dubgal has said plenty of slow recovery runs.
Last year i was training for the limerick marathon when i ran a 10k race, got a PB, and the next day i ran a 16 mile LSR. By not doing a proper recovery after the 10k race i picked up an injury and i missed out on running the marathon.
I know a lot of novices have races planned in the coming weeks, if you have to do the race just remember give yourself plenty of time to recover after these races. Remember DCM is be the main goal for all here.0 -
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Ah sorry, I totally misread that
For the purpose of your plan I can only imagine that steady means faster than MP but slower than HMP.
It seems that the idea for the Saturday runs is to fatigue you a little before the long runs on Sunday
Thanks Meno, so many different names & meanings, and some
Seem to mean exactly same. Can plan accordingly based on
Above. I have seen overstrained Guys run 1.40 halls & can't
Brake 4 hrs on Marathon, so Slowing down on most runs make
Sense.
Thanks😃0 -
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That's fine dubgal so what should I do this week hals plan is 3m,3m,rest,rest and 10 race. Should I just do the same as last week 3,6,3,12?
Hi Emsy, I've just had a look at the regular HHN1 plan and the one which allows for the 10 mile, there's been some sort of crossover my bad, sorry.
The regular plan has two rest days prior to Saturday's 10 mile. No need to take two rest days if not racing, continue the plan as every other week. This may answer Toulouse's query too as to why the totals don't add up.
I'll address this in Monday's post and make it absolutely clear what options are available for racers and non-racers next weekend. Hope that helps 0 -
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Hey guys, late to the thread despite being a lurker for the past couple of months, but I eventually plucked up the courage to mention DCM 2015 to the better half.... I think she was just relieved that there was some method to my increasingly-long-training-run madness!
1.What is your athletics background? Have you run before? What other sports have you taken part in and at what level?
Never played any sport seriously when younger - a mix of rugby at school, GAA for a few months here and there at home, etc. Started playing 5-a-side once a week about 5 years ago.
Bought a bike in 2012 and started cycling to work, then did a small bit of jogging. A workplace bet became a triathlon in 2013, which ended up being 3 triathlons and the Dublin Half that summer. Only did a couple of races last summer due to ITBS, then a combination of changing jobs left me too distant from the gym/swimming pool for regular sessions, plus I had to send my bike off to the manufacturer for a repair. Long story short, I did a lot of running (for me anyway!) early this year.
2.Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs? (Date and distance please!)
Dublin Half 2013 - can't remember exactly, but about 2:05. Absolutely wicked hot day, and I had stepped up to the distance from 10k too quickly, relying on swim/bike fitness to pull me through.
Raheny 5-Mile 2015 - 39:40, early start to the season for me, as I usually only get my backside in gear around May/June!
Raheny Shamrocks 10m on Easter Monday - 1:16:40.
10k last Saturday - 47:41... but the warmup was a 1500m swim and a 40k bike!
3.Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training ? (No problem if you do)
Nope
4.How much training do you currently do incl cross training? Distances, cross training - whatever you think is relevant to your current fitness level.
Started the year running a 3.75m lunchtime loop 2-3 times a week. Have gradually built up the weekend long runs, did 17m last night. The lunchtime runs are a bit quick (running with a couple of colleagues) so I've started to sacrifice a bit of distance to cut some of them back to 3m recovery runs. Swim once a week with the tri club. Cycle to work (12km) occasionally.
5.How many days a week do you run only?
Usually manage 4 times a week, 5 occasionally. Trying to step up to 5 on a regular basis now.
6.What do you want to achieve? Dream finishing time and realistic finishing time? Or just complete it in no specified time?
Going off my Easter 10m time, McMillan reckons a 3:32 is possible, so I'd happily take a 3:45 as my dream time. Under 4 hours is realistic I think.
7.What marathon programme are you following/intending to use?
I've loosely tracked the Boards plan so far, I started a few weeks early and then missed a few LSR's due to holidays and a triathlon last weekend. I'll pick it up properly from here on in.
Hi conor mc and welcome! I've said it before and I'll say it again....you triathletes certainly have a lethal weapon :pac: It looks like you have natural and trained endurance, indicated by your progression from January to April this year from 5 to 10 mile times. Don't be too reliant on McMillan however for predicting your first marathon. I think it's a good call to train and target a range between 3:45 and 4. It's very possible that if everything goes right on the day that you go under 3:45. Better to be conservative than overly ambitious this time, save the target that will really stretch you for next time
It's great that you can manage to spread the load over five days, that will stand to you. Top o' the class too for slowing the recovery and easy runs down (nothing quicker than 9:30m/mi, right?!).
How's your lsr:rest of week total ratio? Try keep it to a roughly 35:65 (max 40:60) ratio if you can.
Best of luck and no more missing lsrs 0 -
Hi Emsy, I've just had a look at the regular HHN1 plan and the one which allows for the 10 mile, there's been some sort of crossover my bad, sorry.
The regular plan has two rest days prior to Saturday's 10 mile. No need to take two rest days if not racing, continue the plan as every other week. This may answer Toulouse's query too as to why the totals don't add up.
I'll address this in Monday's post and make it absolutely clear what options are available for racers and non-racers next weekend. Hope that helps
Thanks so much dubgal x0 -
Here's my LSR report for the week.
Planned 14 miles but agreed with my coach to ease into training after my impromptu break so ran/walked this one. (A note on my break to clarify; this break came 19 weeks into my marathon training. It wasn't planned and I needed it more mentally rather than physically. It wasn't an inactive break, I just didn't get any runs in. All in all I missed 3 runs on my plan but I got in a lot of mileage just by walking on my holiday. If I had been following a more traditional plan or had started later in the year, I definitely would NOT have taken the break!).
Ok, having said that, here's the LSR report!
I had google mapped what I thought was a good route and brought my map with me. I later (too late) realised I had screenshot an overview of the map without noting street names. This came back to bite me in the butt! I did run a good part of the DCM course again though, this is really helping as I'm getting more familiar with the streets.
So I had breakfast at 7am; tried a new overnight oats recipe and I like it a lot better than my old one. It's made with oats, flaxseed, chia seed, coconut milk, almond milk and dried cranberries.
Went out a little later than I planned but was eventually out the door by around 10am. Weather was warm and sun beating down at some points but mostly overcast so wasn't unbearable.
Mile 1: 16:10 (warm up)
Mile 2: 14:11 (run)
Mile 3: 16:30 (walk)
Mile 4: 14:03 (run)
Mile 5: 14:15 (run)
Mile 6: 17:01 (walk)
Mile 7: 14:57 (run)
Mile 8: 14:42 (run)
Mile 9: 14:34 (run)
Mile 10: 18:18 (walk+stop at shop to buy water)
Mile 11: 15:43 (run (ish))
Mile 12: 14:47 (run)
Mile 13: 15:02 (run)
Mile 14: 17:41 (cool down)
I finished in 3:38:00
I ended up running the wrong route and having to make it up as I went along. I turned onto South Circular Road (between miles 10 and 11) when I should have kept going. Luckily I'm familiar with the area as I live near here so it wasn't hard to make up the miles.
Just after mile 9 I nipped into a Topaz to get a bottle of water. I still had some in my handheld bottle but I was craving cold water, mostly to dump on my head as I was hot. Very glad for the tip to bring money and a leap card!
All in all I drank about a litre of water on this run.
Mile 11 had a wicked downhill stretch so I had to slow down a lot as I could really feel it in my calves.
I took an Isogel at miles 5 and 10. I definitely needed it towards the end, you can see my pace getting slower and slower! But as always, I knew if I just kept moving I would get to the end, and I did.
Stretched for a good 20 minutes afterwards. Recovery lunch is wholewheat toast with avocado and poached egg.
Sometimes I finish a run and think 'did I really just run 14 miles? Where did the time go? What was I even thinking during the run?!' Looking back over my splits and seeing it all mapped out for me on Strava makes it a lot more real for me.
Next up is my sports massage on Tuesday which I'm very nervous about. My legs, particularly my Achilles, need a LOT of help so I know it will be painful. I'm also struggling with the whole idea because I don't like to be touched at the best of times even by people I'm close to! And the only people who have seen me in my underwear in the last 7 years is my gynecologist and my cat! So this experience will be quite new and nervewracking for me. Wish me luck?!
Anyway, that's me done and I'm going to go veg for the rest of the day!
Well done on all the LSR's guys. It's great to read the reports, see what everyone else is doing and get some tips! I really appreciate this thread 0 -
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Check the message I sent you which will be in your boards mailbox. It gives you details on how to upload your runs, etc.
The gels question is complicated one and can often be down to personal preference. Quite a few people don't bother with them as they train their body to work without them i.e. fat adaption, etc. You will find quite a lot on this on the main thread I will try to link a few relevant one for you later. There is a theory that says after 2 hours or thereabouts the body has used up it normal store of glycogen so needs to either replenish/supplement this through "fuel" intake or trained to convert fat and run on that i.e. eat itself:D
I know for my first three marathons I always had breakfast of porridge, fruit and orange juice and/or a berocca boost 2 hours before heading out and would train based on a gel every 7 miles (long runs only). On race day itself I used a routine of water (100mls) every 3 miles and a gel (Kinetica) every 6 miles so that I would get a boost earlier than actually needed.
I obviously thought that this was a good strategy and it worked for me as I didn't hit the "wall" in any of these races. Ferris used the same strategy and it worked for him too. I will also be advising Mrs Mc to do something similar.
I think to go breakfast free and no gels might be too big an ask when the miles and time on your feet increase. Now is the time to start experimenting so I would say go ahead and have breakfast tomorrow as planned and see how it works out. You can then look at the gel question over the next few weeks and consider doing some experimenting after the FD next week.Does anyone know the optimal intake of water for the long runs?? FBOT mentioned 100ml of water every 10 miles. I appreciate that we are all different genders, weight, ages, pace etc. I know that there is a maximum number of carbs that you can process per hour. What about water? P
Hi P, hope recovery is going OK. Above is the post in which I mentioned water intake.....I actually said I took 100ml every 3 miles in my early marathons.
By the way I now don't generally take any water while doing an LSR but would always take a mouthful or more if needed at every water station on race day. That's a product of experimentation and experience for which there is no substitute I am afraid.
Experience has also thought me to err on the side of caution as the downside risk is much lower 0 -
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...I'm a bit suspicious about what you did with the guy who 'got lost' though
I have no idea what happened to him I really couldn't keep up with him :rolleyes: but I did see him afterwards - he didn't seem to be too bothered, so I actually think he ran the loop twice (just a guess).That was the main danger really: running fast on tired legs = increased injury risk but I am sure you were very body aware throughout etc, and since. Plenty of very slow recovery runs for a few days now, okWell done on the PB nop, thats a great run on what looks like a very tough route. As Dubgal has said plenty of slow recovery runs.
Last year i was training for the limerick marathon when i ran a 10k race, got a PB, and the next day i ran a 16 mile LSR. By not doing a proper recovery after the 10k race i picked up an injury and i missed out on running the marathon.
I know a lot of novices have races planned in the coming weeks, if you have to do the race just remember give yourself plenty of time to recover after these races. Remember DCM is be the main goal for all here.
Thanks for the advice, folks - a timely reminder. Today is a travel / rest day and I'll just do easy runs all week, with some strides towards the end of the week (the boards plan seems to call for it anyway).
And on Saturday, once more unto the breach, dear friends, once more.0 -
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Hi P, hope recovery is going OK. Above is the post in which I mentioned water intake.....I actually said I took 100ml every 3 miles in my early marathons.
By the way I now don't generally take any water while doing an LSR but would always take a mouthful or more if needed at every water station on race day. That's a product of experimentation and experience for which there is no substitute I am afraid.
Experience has also thought me to err on the side of caution as the downside risk is much lower
I don't have a 'must drink' water strategy though I always have some with me (even during races that advertise water stations or water afterwards. I ran one race where they ran out! So I learned that lesson!).
I'm used to drinking about 2-3L of water per day so maybe I need more water on a long run. I tend to only drink when I happen to think about it, or I start to notice the sloshing and become aware of the bottle. Today's LSR was hot so I did drink more. I only estimate a litre because I used up the 500mL bottle that I bought (but dumped some on my head), filled up about half of my 500mL hand held with the rest and drank not quite half of that again. So I drank about 250mL from start to about mile 9, then stopped to buy a bottle, drank/dumped/filled and started taking on more water but drank the bulk of it during my cool down.
Also, my friends tell me I have a bladder of steel because I rarely have to use the loo, even with all the water I drink. I went before I left the house and didn't have to go at all during the run and I can't actually remember if I went when I got home. I think I went after I stretched.0 -
@TFGR: I'd like the to say the Physio will be grand, but I can't lie, If it doesn't hurt like a biatch at the time it's a waste of money, but it'll feel great the day after
I went to a female Physio thinking it wouldn't be as sore- how wrong I was!
Also, I don't think you need to be in your undies to get your legs mashed to sh1t, shorts are fine, and like a doctor, the Physio has seen it all before!!
When I go to Physio, I keep reminding myself that short term pain is definitely worth the long term gain. I wait with interest your Physio report!!0 -
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Wasn't well all day yesterday so had to do my run today.
30 minutes @ easy HR
5 x 5 minute intervals @ marathon HR with 5 minutes rest
15 minutes easy
Took me absolutely ages to get out the door. This was an easy peasy run but I couldn't just stand up and go. I felt a hunger pang and thought I better get the feck out.
This running lark is so psychological. In my head I only had to run 55 minutes, because the 5 minute recoveries and the warm down don't count, right? :pac:
I was a bit bored for the first 30 minutes. Just wanted to get going into my intervals. I missed the beep on my watch for my second recovery so ended up doing 15 minutes of marathon HR in a row but ssssshhhhhh don't tell anyone.
I miscalculated the distance a bit so had to run past home for a km and come back, again, psychological - I was absolutely grand til I passed that point and then just wanted it to be over.
I bought a belt last week to carry water and it's actually not too bad at all, I didn't need to take a drink but it was nice to have it there and I'll use it on long runs from now on. Not sure about race day though.
I was absolutely starving by the time I got back, had a kinetica shake (I'm not at home so o smoothie maker) by the time I got dinner I felt really really nauseous and haven't been able to eat without feeling like I'm going to puke (sorry), I need to eat goddammit 
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