Right turn, no yellow box, no filter light, heavy oncoming traffic. Input required

Mixomatosis · 08-07-2015 03:56PM #1

Hello,

I am currently an amateur driver, working towards attaining my full driving license. During the course of some driving practice I ended up driving down one particular road, and having to turn right at a junction. I am trying to reflect on the situation, how I handled it, and how I should have handled it both from a legal and practical standpoint.

As I have less than 25 overall posts, I can't post the complete link, but I've shortened it thus :

goo.gl/xgPaUz

If you follow this link you'll find go to Google street view, and see a junction without a yellow box, and no filter light.

The road is the R809, intersecting with a staggered junction at dublin street and 'the mall' in Baldoyle.

You are approaching this crossroad junction, heading southbound where a main road (which you are on) intersects with a Minor road. You wish to turn right.

__| | |__
== | ==
¬|U| |

The light turns green for you but oncoming traffic in the opposite lane is very busy and there is no convenient gap.

It's at this point where my learning failed me somewhat. I moved out to the turning point, but oncoming traffic was so busy there were no gaps to turn right. At this point, the lights turned red for me, and green for the traffic on the minor road. I hesitated, and ended up staying until the light turned green again. At this point, a slew of cars was building up behind me.

Luckily, half way through the next light changing cycle (before it went red again) one of the drivers on the opposite side stopped to let me take my right turn.

My colleague who accompanied me said that I should have ran the red light on my side to make the turn before traffic started flowing (from the other road).

About legality and practicality, how should one approach this situation?

1) When the lights go red for you, take the 5 or so seconds you have to turn right onto the minor road
2) Wait for a driver in the opposite lane to stop and let you take your turn
3) Other

Any thoughts would be welcome!

Alanstrainor · 08-07-2015 04:12PM

Once the light had gone red, and you were already in a position in the centre of the junction waiting to turn right, you should have proceeded around the corner. You are not really "breaking the red", you are merely clearing the junction to allow traffic to flow from the other lanes.

ProudDUB · 08-07-2015 05:47PM

Yep. I agree. If you moved into the centre turning position, while the lights were still green for you, that is not breaking a red light. If the only opportunity to make your turn, is after the lights have gone red for oncoming traffic, go ahead and turn. Your staying in the middle of the road just creates a traffic hazard. I know the place you are posting about, as I only live up the road. People do it all the time.

If it happens again & you are turning when the lights have gone red for oncoming traffic, do make sure that the first car up to the junction (that you are turning in front of,) IS actually stopping for the red light, BEFORE you start your turn.

People break red lights and plough straight ahead all the time. So don't start your turn, until you can tell that the oncoming car(s) is actually slowing down and stopping for the red light, or to let you go. The more practice driving you do, the better you'll be able to judge & predict the 'body language' of other cars & their drivers.

allthedoyles · 09-07-2015 12:27AM

And keep your front wheels facing straight ahead until you are ready to turn right .

Mixomatosis · 09-07-2015 09:52AM

Thank you all for the input!

I now understand that after getting to the turning point at green, moving (though red for me) would be the correct course of action.

Also, I'm glad to hear of the input from a local driver

The additional comments about safety before moving are welcome also, as well as the correct wheel position before the turn.

Thanks again!

cython · 18-07-2015 09:26PM

Mixomatosis wrote: »

Thank you all for the input!

I now understand that after getting to the turning point at green, moving (though red for me) would be the correct course of action.

Also, I'm glad to hear of the input from a local driver

The additional comments about safety before moving are welcome also, as well as the correct wheel position before the turn.

Thanks again!

Typically the red is associated with a (stop-type) line as well though, and once you have proceeded into the junction beyond that, you have already proceeded beyond the light, and should clear the junction once you have a safe opportunity to do so.

Del2005 · 19-07-2015 04:38PM

Mixomatosis wrote: »

I now understand that after getting to the turning point at green, moving (though red for me) would be the correct course of action.

!

You've passed the stop line so you are in control of the junction, by not clearing it when the lights on your flow go red you are an obstruction.

Just to add to the others. If there's a right turn and no traffic light stopping you from turning right the 1st vehicle in the queue should enter the junction and take possession, if the lights go red they can clear before the other lane proceeds with caution! The next vehicle turning right can't enter the junction till the 1st one has cleared or a traffic light allows.

Marcusm · 20-07-2015 02:00AM

Mixomatosis wrote: »

Hello,

I am currently an amateur driver, working towards attaining my full driving license. During the course of some driving practice I ended up driving down one particular road, and having to turn right at a junction. I am trying to reflect on the situation, how I handled it, and how I should have handled it both from a legal and practical standpoint.

As I have less than 25 overall posts, I can't post the complete link, but I've shortened it thus :

goo.gl/xgPaUz

If you follow this link you'll find go to Google street view, and see a junction without a yellow box, and no filter light.

The road is the R809, intersecting with a staggered junction at dublin street and 'the mall' in Baldoyle.

You are approaching this crossroad junction, heading southbound where a main road (which you are on) intersects with a Minor road. You wish to turn right.

__| | |__
== | ==
¬|U| |

The light turns green for you but oncoming traffic in the opposite lane is very busy and there is no convenient gap.

It's at this point where my learning failed me somewhat. I moved out to the turning point, but oncoming traffic was so busy there were no gaps to turn right. At this point, the lights turned red for me, and green for the traffic on the minor road. I hesitated, and ended up staying until the light turned green again. At this point, a slew of cars was building up behind me.

Luckily, half way through the next light changing cycle (before it went red again) one of the drivers on the opposite side stopped to let me take my right turn.

My colleague who accompanied me said that I should have ran the red light on my side to make the turn before traffic started flowing (from the other road).

About legality and practicality, how should one approach this situation?

1) When the lights go red for you, take the 5 or so seconds you have to turn right onto the minor road
2) Wait for a driver in the opposite lane to stop and let you take your turn
3) Other

Any thoughts would be welcome!

The red light relates to the stop line (thick white line) which you would have passed through to get to the middle of the junction. Not only are you permitted to turn right when the red light illuminates and removes the oncoming traffic but you are compelled to do so as otherwise you are obstructing the junction. Did your fully licensed driver not insist on this course of action?

Mixomatosis · 21-07-2015 12:28AM

Marcusm wrote: »

The red light relates to the stop line (thick white line) which you would have passed through to get to the middle of the junction. Not only are you permitted to turn right when the red light illuminates and removes the oncoming traffic but you are compelled to do so as otherwise you are obstructing the junction. Did your fully licensed driver not insist on this course of action?

Thanks for your input.

My companion was moreso observing and answering any questions I had during this practice drive. Actually my colleague did say that I should have moved on the red but I was unsure at the time if this was a move to make based on local knowledge or lawful and practical driving practices.

There are a lot of scenarios in which local knowledge would seem to trump what you would learn from a purely technical perspective, from an instructor.

For instance, the Darndale roundabout on the Malahide road. You are driving southbound towards the roundabout and wish to take the 2nd exit (straight on). Technical learning would dictate that straight on means you take the left hand lane. If you observe the majority of traffic you would see drivers entering in both the left and right hand lanes, headed for the 2nd exit.

This, I believe, breaks the formal rules somewhat, but works due to familiarity with the setup in the area.

I'm still learning and being able to be confident that I'm driving safely, but also adhering to the rules helps me relax somewhat.

Squidgy Black · 21-07-2015 02:55AM

Mixomatosis wrote: »

For instance, the Darndale roundabout on the Malahide road. You are driving southbound towards the roundabout and wish to take the 2nd exit (straight on). Technical learning would dictate that straight on means you take the left hand lane. If you observe the majority of traffic you would see drivers entering in both the left and right hand lanes, headed for the 2nd exit.

This, I believe, breaks the formal rules somewhat, but works due to familiarity with the setup in the area.

I'm still learning and being able to be confident that I'm driving safely, but also adhering to the rules helps me relax somewhat.

See the issue with these kind of roundabouts is that the left hand lane leads straight back into a bus lane after the exit, so what happens is most people use the right lane to save themselves having to merge from the bus lane. It's the same further down at the Artane roundabout.

Del2005 · 21-07-2015 09:34AM

Mixomatosis wrote: »

Thanks for your input.

My companion was moreso observing and answering any questions I had during this practice drive. Actually my colleague did say that I should have moved on the red but I was unsure at the time if this was a move to make based on local knowledge or lawful and practical driving practices.

There are a lot of scenarios in which local knowledge would seem to trump what you would learn from a purely technical perspective, from an instructor.

For instance, the Darndale roundabout on the Malahide road. You are driving southbound towards the roundabout and wish to take the 2nd exit (straight on). Technical learning would dictate that straight on means you take the left hand lane. If you observe the majority of traffic you would see drivers entering in both the left and right hand lanes, headed for the 2nd exit.

This, I believe, breaks the formal rules somewhat, but works due to familiarity with the setup in the area.

I'm still learning and being able to be confident that I'm driving safely, but also adhering to the rules helps me relax somewhat.

Don't use local knowledge till you've passed your test, or an ADI with experience of the test centre tells you, follow the normal traffic laws.

Right turn, no yellow box, no filter light, heavy oncoming traffic. Input required

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