I'm becoming very cynical about people who say they're interested in eqaulity

steddyeddy · 20-07-2015 07:03PM #1

I worked on a few projects in Tanzania such as a prison, an AIDS clinic and a refuge for women. Only 5% of women in Tanzania go on to secondary education and believe me it's one of the more progressive African countries. I asked what they thought about feminism in the west and they said "it stands for white middle class women and hasn't ventured into the savannah".

TBH they're right. I think a lot of people claiming to support equality only support the equality of the group they're a part of. On another thread the findings of a report detailed that bright students from working class backgrounds were discriminated against based on where they were born. One recruiter said this:

One employer suggested firms were unwilling to sift through applications from those of working-class backgrounds. “Is there a diamond in the rough out there?” the unnamed recruiter told researchers. “Statistically it’s highly probable but the question is … how much mud do I have to sift through in that population to find that diamond?”

Now this is discrimination. Yet the same people who complain about sexism supported this stance. If they were really concerned about women they'd open their eyes to the fact that working class women are discriminated too.

It's not just feminism but a lot of people who claim to support equality seem to be only supporting their particular brand of equality because it's the flavor of the month.

Look at the hatred directed at Tim Hunt and then look at what these same people are doing to support other forms of inequality.

In essence people support one type of equality but might support another type of inequality.

I.e some types of discrimination are more fashionable than others.

NotCominBack · 20-07-2015 07:05PM

The word "interested" implies bias, therefore lacking in equality itself

pmasterson95 · 20-07-2015 07:12PM

steddyeddy wrote: »

I worked on a few projects in Tanzania such as a prison, an AIDS clinic and a refuge for women. Only 5% of women in Tanzania go on to secondary education and believe me it's one of the more progressive African countries. I asked what they thought about feminism in the west and they said "it stands for white middle class women and hasn't ventured into the savannah".

TBH they're right. I think a lot of people claiming to support equality only support the equality of the group they're a part of. On another thread the findings of a report detailed that bright students from working class backgrounds were discriminated against based on where they were born. One recruiter said this:

Now this is discrimination. Yet the same people who complain about sexism supported this stance. If they were really concerned about women they'd open their eyes to the fact that working class women are discriminated too.

It's not just feminism but a lot of people who claim to support equality seem to be only supporting their particular brand of equality because it's the flavor of the month.

Look at the hatred directed at Tim Hunt and then look at what these same people are doing to support other forms of inequality.

Equality is just a fashionable word these days. Its gets spouted by many but few actually practice.

arayess · 20-07-2015 07:13PM

equality campaigning is a sham.
The worthies only really care about socially cool campaigns like the gay marriage one.
They are sheep at best or thank-whores at worst.

stuff like eliminating poverty or father's rights just isn't sexy enough as the poor are dirty, fathers...I'm sure they beat the wife... and the gays are ....well absolutely fabulous ...who wouldn't want to be pictured with their arms around david norris and panti

Like imagine how uncool campaigning with John Waters would be for fathers right - defo less facebook likes and the anti-god crowd would be cross too..but they are always cross.

everdead.ie · 20-07-2015 07:15PM

steddyeddy wrote: »

I worked on a few projects in Tanzania such as a prison, an AIDS clinic and a refuge for women. Only 5% of women in Tanzania go on to secondary education and believe me it's one of the more progressive African countries. I asked what they thought about feminism in the west and they said "it stands for white middle class women and hasn't ventured into the savannah".

TBH they're right. I think a lot of people claiming to support equality only support the equality of the group they're a part of. On another thread the findings of a report detailed that bright students from working class backgrounds were discriminated against based on where they were born. One recruiter said this:

Now this is discrimination. Yet the same people who complain about sexism supported this stance. If they were really concerned about women they'd open their eyes to the fact that working class women are discriminated too.

It's not just feminism but a lot of people who claim to support equality seem to be only supporting their particular brand of equality because it's the flavor of the month.

Look at the hatred directed at Tim Hunt and then look at what these same people are doing to support other forms of inequality.

Did we not have a thread about discrimination against working class people a few weeks ago?

Tombi! · 20-07-2015 07:15PM

Like everything, campaigning for things has someone, somewhere organizing it that has an active interest in it personally.

Take the SSM for example: I could be gay. I could know someone who is gay. I could think that the future generations deserve to marry who they want. I could feel that people who are the same sex have a right to get married.

All of that is a personal interest.

steddyeddy · 20-07-2015 07:17PM

Tombi! wrote: »

Like everything, campaigning for things has someone, somewhere organizing it that has an active interest in it personally.

Take the SSM for example: I could be gay. I could know someone who is gay. I could think that the future generations deserve to marry who they want. I could feel that people who are the same sex have a right to get married.

All of that is a personal interest.

Well that's true but often people claim to support women say. Yet they only support middle class women. They don't want to know or don't know what's happening in countries like Tanzania.

NotCominBack · 20-07-2015 07:23PM

everdead.ie wrote: »

Did we not have a thread about discrimination against working class people a few weeks ago?

Discriminating against the descrimination thread?

ToddyDoody · 20-07-2015 07:23PM

NotCominBack wrote: »

The word "interested" implies bias, therefore lacking in equality itself

And not forgetting that equality can be quite boring, so they could be lying.

steddyeddy · 20-07-2015 07:26PM

everdead.ie wrote: »

Did we not have a thread about discrimination against working class people a few weeks ago?

It's not about working class. To illustrate my point I consider myself an egalitarian in that I think everyone should have equality of opportunity. I don't favor one group over another but desire to see an even playing ground when it comes to opportunity.

ChunkyLover54 · 20-07-2015 07:35PM

steddyeddy wrote: »

I worked on a few projects in Tanzania such as a prison, an AIDS clinic and a refuge for women. Only 5% of women in Tanzania go on to secondary education and believe me it's one of the more progressive African countries. I asked what they thought about feminism in the west and they said "it stands for white middle class women and hasn't ventured into the savannah".

TBH they're right. I think a lot of people claiming to support equality only support the equality of the group they're a part of..

I don't think there's anything strange about "white middle class women" in the west being more concerned about equality issues at home than what's happening in Tanzania.

What would you suppose they do to support feminism and equality in Tanzania?

Tombi! · 20-07-2015 07:37PM

steddyeddy wrote: »

Well that's true but often people claim to support women say. Yet they only support middle class women. They don't want to know or don't know what's happening in countries like Tanzania.

Does it affect them?
Feminism, men's rights, "activists" of whatever (within reason), care about themselves. Their own people and groups.

The difference is that some things are seen country wide as "good". For example, voting yes in SSM would be a "good" thing in the eyes of many people.

Things like third world countries and the lack of human rights there doesn't matter since it's not in our country, not in our immediate location so it's too difficult to do anything about it. Hence why a lot of activists for whatever, do it online since you have the internet reaching the world.

darkpagandeath · 20-07-2015 07:38PM

Would it not be interested in looking interested in Equality for the High fives ? No matter how contradictory it can look.

RDM_83 again · 20-07-2015 07:42PM

I think if you dig deeper and think big barely anybody in the west actually wants equality.
We simply can't support the worlds population being raised to a western or close to western standard of living, the technology simply isn't there Fusion has been a pipe dream for decades and the break even point remains decades in the future.
The world could be less unequal and the current trends of the super-wealthy are a huge negative but I've the honesty to admit I would rather that people in the 3rd world are poor if it means me, my friends and family have access to a living wage, good affordable healthcare, provisions for them when they grow to old/loose employment/can't work, housing no worse than we have now and a diet thats at least equivalent to an Irish 60's or 70's one.

steddyeddy · 20-07-2015 07:43PM

ChunkyLover54 wrote: »

I don't think there's anything strange about "white middle class women" in the west being more concerned about equality issues at home than what's happening in Tanzania.

What would you suppose they do to support feminism and equality in Tanzania?

Well for one stop insulting them by saying they support all women. They don't.

steddyeddy · 20-07-2015 07:45PM

Tombi! wrote: »

Does it affect them?
Feminism, men's rights, "activists" of whatever (within reason), care about themselves. Their own people and groups.

The difference is that some things are seen country wide as "good". For example, voting yes in SSM would be a "good" thing in the eyes of many people.

Things like third world countries and the lack of human rights there doesn't matter since it's not in our country, not in our immediate location so it's too difficult to do anything about it. Hence why a lot of activists for whatever, do it online since you have the internet reaching the world.

But there still is class discrimination in this country. It's fair more prevalent than some of the discrimination feminists say are prevalent.

hatrickpatrick · 20-07-2015 07:52PM

You're totally right. True equality means living in a society which is blind to demographic differences when judging people. You don't achieve that by creating more conflict where there doesn't need to be any, but this is what the vast majority of the "equality" movements do as a starting point.

The whole "Black Lives Matter" thing in the States is a pretty good example. The fight against police brutality would enjoy a lot more cross-society support if it didn't begin with the premise that when a white guy or a Mexican is shot by a cop, it isn't as big a deal. Nobody's suggesting it doesn't happen more often to black men, but the fact is that by focusing only on that when fighting it, you send a message to other demographics that their own grievances with an overly militarised police force are irrelevant, and unwelcome in that debate. Ergo, unnecessary conflict.

The institutions being fought love the conflict of course. To quote Sir Richard from Yes Minister, "Why do you think we always started civil wars in the colonies we gave independence to? Instead of bothering us, they kept themselves busy by fighting eachother!"

hatrickpatrick · 20-07-2015 07:56PM

steddyeddy wrote: »

But there still is class discrimination in this country.

Nobody wants to talk about that because that involves getting people to look at their own prejudices, which are extremely prevalent.
I'm always amazed at how many middle class, private school educated, "enlightened" and "intellectual" people my own age profess to be above racism, sexism, etc and moreover to be absolutely disgusted by those who engage in it - but will happily go on long rants about Travellers if someone mentions taking a trip to Dunsink Observatory. Same thing with class discrimination - we had a thread here on Boards a little while ago about discrimination based on accents, and someone threw in "Well, if you sound like your from the Gardiner St Flats (a block of '50s council flats) then you can hardly expect to get hired above someone who sounds like they're from Foxrock" or some such bullsh!t.

The reason we don't talk about class discrimination in Ireland is because for some bizarre and sad reason, it's still widely socially acceptable.

LDN_Irish · 20-07-2015 08:07PM

You're actually right. I often talk about discrimination against the working classes and complaining about the lack I equality, but I'm rarely (never) thinking about the Tanzanian working classes when I'm discussing it.

steddyeddy · 20-07-2015 08:08PM

LDN_Irish wrote: »

You're actually right. I often talk about discrimination against the working classes and complaining about the lack I equality, but I'm rarely (never) thinking about the Tanzanian working classes when I'm discussing it.

I should change my OP to people talk about fighting inequality but they accept and even support other types.

ToddyDoody · 20-07-2015 08:27PM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Would it not be interested in looking interested in Equality for the High fives ? No matter how contradictory it can look.

Come again?

El_Duderino 09 · 20-07-2015 08:35PM

OP most people who do any kind of social or charity work, do it close to home with like minded activists and recipients who are predisposes to receive that work

You went far away from home to do your (commendable) charity work and wondered why other people don't it the way you did it. Fair enough. But you went further and doubted their sincerity because they don't go out foreign to spread feminism.

That's silly. Your question is silly.

steddyeddy · 20-07-2015 08:37PM

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

OP most people who do any kind of social or charity work, do it close to home with like minded recipients who are predisposes to receive that work

You went to far away from home to do your (commendable) charity work and wondered why other people don't it the way you did it. Fair enough. But you went further and doubted their sincerity because they don't go out foreign to spread feminism.

That's silly. Your question is silly.

No I'm saying they ignore or even promote other types of discrimination. E.G they might promote feminism but only when it comes to middle class women.

jimgoose · 20-07-2015 08:42PM

The only cure for this is nanotechnology. Once the entire planet becomes a uniform Grey Goo of microscopic machines thrashing about frantically searching for more material with which to replicate themselves (picture most provincial-town nightclubs), inequality will be a thing of the past.

osarusan · 20-07-2015 08:42PM

To be honest, I doubt you'll find many people who are equally interested/campaign equally in all aspects of equality for everybody.

You'd end up being cynical of everyone.

Deranged96 · 20-07-2015 08:50PM

Who actually says "I'm interested in equality" when not in the context of a specific issue?

I'm not sure we should care about what African women think of Western feminism. I'm not sure why Afican women should care about our Feminsim either. I'm surprised they even have an opinion of it and a social commentary remake to boot!

It's not like inequality is going to be razed to the ground in on fell swoop.. Taking it one step/fad at a time has provided results thus far.

As far global inequality, that's a different kettle of fish and is not comparable to our own "inequality"

Cold War Kid · 20-07-2015 08:50PM

jimgoose wrote: »

a uniform Grey Goo of microscopic machines thrashing about frantically searching for more material with which to replicate

... You know what I'm thinking.

(Genre: Prog rock).

jimgoose · 20-07-2015 08:52PM

Cold War Kid wrote: »

... You know what I'm thinking.

(Genre: Prog rock).

Music can change the world, kiddo! :cool:

El_Duderino 09 · 20-07-2015 08:58PM

steddyeddy wrote:

No I'm saying they ignore or even promote other types of discrimination. E.G they might promote feminism but only when it comes to middle class women.

How do they do that?

I passively support feminism for myself and those around me, by behaving as a feminist. I do nothing for feminism in sub Sahara Africa and I do nothing to support travellers in my area. Does that invalidate the fact that I'm a feminist?

Trudiha · 20-07-2015 09:12PM

It's the intersectionality thing. The most obvious beneficiaries of any specific piece of equality legislation are going to be those only held back by that specific discrimination; white, middle class women are going to gain most from feminism because their class and colour aren’t discriminated against.

As a privileged, white, middle class dyke, I am aware of the irony of discussing feminism or gay rights with a poor, straight, white single father but it’s not a race to see who is more oppressed, our shared goals are probably similar.

QuinDixie · 20-07-2015 09:27PM

You take of your own. After helping family,friends and neighbours whose got time to be worrying about people in the 3rd world.
I was in Laos a few years ago, you could not move with the mount of NGOs there, and of course they all on a jolly.

I'm becoming very cynical about people who say they're interested in eqaulity

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