Irish state now will now accept a trans persons own declaration of their gender

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Any ideas what would work for everyone, i dont think its unfair to say use the appropiate room for what your body looks like. I dont see how doing that means you couldnt go for a swim this eveing and nobody would bat an eyelid. Now rocking in with a mans bits in a girls swimming outfit is going to cause a bit of a stir..

Do you think this man belongs in the mens or womens bathroom?



Where should this woman go?

drunkmonkey wrote: »

So the cis people should now get into the closet seen as its free...equality and respect for everyone***

You could always just not look at other people if you don't want to see them. I assume you already don't make a habit of staring at other people that're getting changed so that shouldn't be a problem.
Otherwise it doesn't change anything - if you don't want to be seen while changing (or rather, don't want to change in front of others) then your options were always either to not get changed or do so in a cubicle.

darkpagandeath does raise the real important question here, however.

seamus wrote: »

No, only the ones who get offended by other peoples' bodies.Victorian prudeness.

Separate changing rooms exist because of the idea that men are insatiable sexual animals and women are fragile delicate little flowers. Thus to protect one from the other, changing facilities should be completely segregated lest someone suffer the devastating embarrassment of someone of the opposite sex seeing their naked body.

The ironic thing being that separated rooms create the taboo they seek to avoid and only serve to exacerbate the problem of perverts. If all changing rooms, and toilets in particular, were unisex, people would learn get over themselves pretty quickly.

Citation ?

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

why is it so important why we have separate changing rooms?

Why is it so important to ignore them ? It works both ways.

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Here we go again...

Personally I don't give a toss how someone sees themselves - be they straight, gay, bi, male, female, trans, black, white, purple.. whatever!! If they're happy and harming no-one then work away!
What does annoy me about these issues however is the belittlement of people who aren't as up-to-date with the latest politically correct "group think" on an issue.

Freedom of thought and opinion isn't just restricted to those who are fully subscribed to the latest "approved" stance on a topic - and yet the supposedly more "enlightened" and "progressive" among us seem to make it their mission to not only "educate" these "dinosaurs" till they admit the error of their ways, but - more importantly - make sure that all their virtual friends see just how committed they are to doing so. Approval and validation from the group is key apparently.

It's really becoming ridiculous at this stage and frankly, I'm getting tired of the constant complaining from people who are offended over nothing... especially those who spend their time being offended on others behalf!

People should recognize that societal attitudes are still changing, and thus recognize that being diplomatic (my approach) is more constructive than belittlement or taking offence - but equally, people have a right to be offended due to the effects that societal attitudes have on the group being discussed (especially if they like or are friends with people from such a societal group), so you can't fault or judge those who are offended, they are just standing up for someone/a-group, and morally they are in the right (even if being diplomatic is more constructive, they have no obligation to take that path).

If there was nobody taking offence, societal attitudes would either not change, or would change only very slowly - (dis)approval and (lack-of-)validation from the group is actually the key, to societal change - it's not 'political correctness', in fact that's a perfect example of how the term 'political correctness' is used in a harmful way.

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Here we go again...

Personally I don't give a toss how someone sees themselves - be they straight, gay, bi, male, female, trans, black, white, purple.. whatever!! If they're happy and harming no-one then work away!
What does annoy me about these issues however is the belittlement of people who aren't as up-to-date with the latest politically correct "group think" on an issue.

Freedom of thought and opinion isn't just restricted to those who are fully subscribed to the latest "approved" stance on a topic - and yet the supposedly more "enlightened" and "progressive" among us seem to make it their mission to not only "educate" these "dinosaurs" till they admit the error of their ways, but - more importantly - make sure that all their virtual friends see just how committed they are to doing so. Approval and validation from the group is key apparently.

It's really becoming ridiculous at this stage and frankly, I'm getting tired of the constant complaining from people who are offended over nothing... especially those who spend their time being offended on others behalf!

You're dead right Kaiser, lets row back on all the other 'group think' issues while we're at it. We should all be free to express our real views on topics like race, sexism, homophobia etc because lets face it your freedom of expression is more important than other people's right to go about their lives unmolested by bigots and other people freely expressing their disapproval of their race, sex or sexual orientation or identity.

The problem is that despite your fatigue of people being offended over nothing. The daily reality for most people who are 'different' through an accident of birth makes them a are target for people who reject the current 'group think' and are happy to freely express their thoughts often loudly and sometimes with physical threats of violence.

No one can stop your thoughts, you are free to think anything you like. You don't have to agree with anything anyone says.

But this comment is quite illuminating in terms of your attitude and it's so very typical:

Personally I don't give a toss how someone sees themselves - be they straight, gay, bi, male, female, trans, black, white, purple.. whatever!! If they're happy and harming no-one then work away!

You left out the 'but'. As in 'I'm not a racist but.'

The problem is with the 'harming no one' line. The trouble is that many people who like you imagine they hold reasonable views do think there is harm to be had. That was the main thrust of the no arguments in the recent referendum and interestingly your comments are almost word for word the same line taken by the no campaigners when they lost, bemoaning 'group think'.

Gay marriage would damage the sancity of marriage, the family, children etc ad nauseum. You see it here absurdly in zererelli's and drunk monkey's fears of coming face to face with a trans person in a swimming pool changing room!
Women getting the vote would damage society too. Allowing black people the same rights is even more dangerous. Divorce, contraception the list is endless.

Sure political correctness is ridiculous at times but try and remember why it exists. Bigotry and discrimination are real issues suffered by real people in the real world. Not in the rarified world of the internet forum.

You could create a 3rd area a Transgender area for changing and all that. Would that not solve the problem ?