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The US Think They Can Extradite Gary Davis

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Comments

  • #182
    Wompa1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,360 ✭✭✭Wompa1


    Eugene Norman wrote: »
    Apparantly you are ok with world police Team America. Empires always have slaves and hangers on.

    Apparently you make some pretty hefty assumptions. It's ok, sweetheart. Not everybody in this world will agree with you.

    I see a need for countries to have the ability to REQUEST extradition of cyber criminals from other countries. e.g. Ransomware, cases of attempted extortion leading to the victims torment and suicide.

    I believe the person in question should be up for extradition to the country the victim was in for their prosecution. Even if the country that the attacker was in had it's own cyber crime laws (which not all countries in the world have put in place effectively)
    Eugene Norman wrote: »
    I'd like a European alliance with Russia and others to oppose American hegemony.

    More power to you. With the strides we've made with equality for gay people, I'd hate to see that tainted by aligning with an establishment that has many policies that are stuck in the stone age


  • #183
    Berserker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,043 ✭✭✭Berserker


    Lemsiper wrote: »
    To be fair, child porn was always forbidden on the original Silk Road.

    The weaponry section was also closed early on.

    That's incorrect. The whole idea of SR and the dark web as a whole was that "anything goes".


  • #184
    Subcomandante Marcos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,682 ✭✭✭Subcomandante Marcos


    The Honey Monster wrote: »
    He was allegedly an admin of The Silk Road...distributors of drugs, child porn, weapons, assassinations, stolen credit cards etc?

    Tell me again how serving life in jail would be a harsh sentence?



    No he's not and no silk Road didn't
    The silk Road specifically did not allow the sale or offering of any child porn, weapons or other ways of hurting others.

    Gary Davis owned and operated a deep Web hosting company. He worked of the model of "if someone reports something illegal I'll investigate, but I'm not monitoring my customers content".

    He never published anything illegal himself, nothing illegal was found on any of his hardware, in his apartment or even linked to him personally.

    The only crime he broke in Ireland is tax evasion, he should be prosecuted for that, in Ireland.


  • #185
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,461 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    Hahahaha Comparing the SR to Wikileaks ...


  • #186
    nxbyveromdwjpg
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,402 ✭✭✭nxbyveromdwjpg


    Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »
    Gary Davis owned and operated a deep Web hosting company. He worked of the model of "if someone reports something illegal I'll investigate, but I'm not monitoring my customers content".

    It sounds like you're getting confused here with the Freedom Hosting guy.

    The guy in this case is accused of being a forum moderator, nothing more. The servers were in Iceland or somewhere.


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  • #187
    dasdog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,138 ✭✭✭dasdog


    Yamanoto wrote: »
    Divil for the Colombian marching powder by all accounts

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f1RIoalqKgw


    Glad I wasn't the only one who made this initial association. Could play 12 string guitar pretty well especially for someone who was blind. Donovan and Pete Seeger in total awe.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJSLkznE1dc

    https://subscriptions.boards.ie



  • #188
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,094 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    How about the Irish state hand this alleged criminal to the US when the US ratifies the Rome Statute, which it has already signed, and start extraditing its alleged war criminals to the International Criminal Court of which 123 countries on this planet are now members?

    At the moment, its refusal to ratify has it hanging out with lovers of justice like Israel and Sudan. I wonder what they might be trying to hide?


  • #189
    Eugene Norman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,191 ✭✭✭Eugene Norman


    Wompa1 wrote: »
    Apparently you make some pretty hefty assumptions. It's ok, sweetheart. Not everybody in this world will agree with you.

    I see a need for countries to have the ability to REQUEST extradition of cyber criminals from other countries. e.g. Ransomware, cases of attempted extortion leading to the victims torment and suicide.

    I believe the person in question should be up for extradition to the country the victim was in for their prosecution. Even if the country that the attacker was in had it's own cyber crime laws (which not all countries in the world have put in place effectively)

    Yes but as we've pointed out remedially in this thread the only country that thinks it's laws are universal is the U.S. It's a crime to criticise Muhammad in many countries and your internet scribblings can be read anywhere. Yet if you criticise Muhammad don't expect an extradition to Saudi. Or an attempt at extradition.

    Also the U.S. forces it's laws on other countries while refusing to extradite both American citizens and even non Americans for much greater crimes.

    Sweetheart.

    More power to you. With the strides we've made with equality for gay people, I'd hate to see that tainted by aligning with an establishment that has many policies that are stuck in the stone age

    the alliance I am hoping for will be as much European as Russian. It will be primarily be anti-American. And gay rights aren't the only rights - the right to not be murdered in your millions by an imperial power that counterfeited claims of weapons of mass destruction is unarguably a greater right.

    ( not that the U.S. led the way on gay rights, nor would most of its population have voted for gay marriage were it not judicially forced upon them by the courts)


  • #190
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,365 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Yes let us get away from those oppressive americans and straight into the arms of those peace loving, civil liberties advocates the Russians. What could possibly go wrong.


  • #191
    Wompa1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,360 ✭✭✭Wompa1


    Eugene Norman wrote: »
    Yes but as we've pointed out remedially in this thread the only country that thinks it's laws are universal is the U.S. It's a crime to criticise Muhammad in many countries and your internet scribblings can be read anywhere. Yet if you criticise Muhammad don't expect an extradition to Saudi. Or an attempt at extradition.

    Also the U.S. forces it's laws on other countries while refusing to extradite both American citizens and even non Americans for much greater crimes.

    Sweetheart.




    the alliance I am hoping for will be as much European as Russian. It will be primarily be anti-American. And gay rights aren't the only rights - the right to not be murdered in your millions by an imperial power that counterfeited claims of weapons of mass destruction is unarguably a greater right.

    ( not that the U.S. led the way on gay rights or would most have voted for gay marriage were it not judicially forced upon them by the courts)

    You're talking out of your arse. Where are you getting your information about the US never extraditing criminals? Link to proof, please

    You also seem to be white washing over Russian history, if you believe they are some bastion of hope for humanity, you're simply naive.


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  • #192
    petrolcan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 898 ✭✭✭petrolcan


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    Aspergers isn't autism and why does that mean a person shouldn't goto prison?

    ummm

    http://www.autism.org.uk/about-autism/autism-an-introduction/what-is-asperger-syndrome.aspx


  • #193
    lizzyman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 704 ✭✭✭lizzyman


    petrolcan wrote: »
    ummm

    http://www.autism.org.uk/about-autism/autism-an-introduction/what-is-asperger-syndrome.aspx

    I pointed this out earlier.

    In joeytheparrot's defense, it's only a year or two since Aspergers was phased out as a separate diagnosis and included under autism.


  • #194
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,365 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    lizzyman wrote: »
    I pointed this out earlier.

    In joeytheparrot's defense, it's only a year or two since Aspergers was phased out as a separate diagnosis and included under autism.

    and it is still not a get out of jail free card.


  • #195
    hatrickpatrick
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,798 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    darkpagandeath wrote: »
    Most of the drugs sold on there would be illegal pretty much everywhere.

    So what? If I sell the drugs in Ireland I'm on Irish soil and it's for the Gardai, DPP and Irish courts to deal with me. America has absolutely no sovereignty, unless I was using a computer in the American Embassy in Ballsbridge.


  • #196
    hatrickpatrick
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,798 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    Wompa1 wrote: »
    Were the transactions completely based in data centers outside of the US? Did any data or money transfer into data centers in the US. Even for just routing back to Europe or where ever else?

    If no, they don't have any jurisdiction. If transactions took place in the US, which you can be pretty sure they did. That's a different story, particularly if they facilitated a crime taking place in the US. The US would be well within their rights to request extradition based on that and then it's up to the Irish Government whether they accept the extradition request.

    I don't see where the outrage is.

    The laws need to be reworked. It's not about the infrastructure used, it's about the person's physical location. If data flowing through the US gives the US government jurisdiction over the people at either end, this represents a serious threat to national sovereignty in the digital age, and national governments should enact legislation immediately to rule out extraditions in those specific cases.


  • #197
    tawnyowl
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 517 ✭✭✭tawnyowl


    johnc77 wrote: »
    Nope rico does not apply to bitcoin transactions.
    Why would bitcoin transactions be different to any other transactions?


  • #198
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,461 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    hatrickpatrick wrote: »
    The laws need to be reworked. It's not about the infrastructure used, it's about the person's physical location. If data flowing through the US gives the US government jurisdiction over the people at either end, this represents a serious threat to national sovereignty in the digital age, and national governments should enact legislation immediately to rule out extraditions in those specific cases.

    hard drugs are pretty much illegal everywhere.


  • #199
    alb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,259 ✭✭✭alb


    tawnyowl wrote: »
    Why would bitcoin transactions be different to any other transactions?

    Bitcoin enthusiast here (and no I've never used Silk Road or any other darknet market, nor used bitcoin for anything illegal). Bitcoin transactions are not like conventional money transactions in many ways. I'm not even sure how you would define the jurisdiction(s) in which a transaction took place. There would have been no interaction with any US financial institution

    What is the link to the US here btw? He's Irish, he was in Ireland, the servers were not in US or am I missing something?


  • #200
    Subcomandante Marcos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,682 ✭✭✭Subcomandante Marcos


    alb wrote: »
    am I missing something?

    youtube.com/watch?v=tX5ZRE26YWM


  • #201
    Wompa1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,360 ✭✭✭Wompa1


    hatrickpatrick wrote: »
    The laws need to be reworked. It's not about the infrastructure used, it's about the person's physical location. If data flowing through the US gives the US government jurisdiction over the people at either end, this represents a serious threat to national sovereignty in the digital age, and national governments should enact legislation immediately to rule out extraditions in those specific cases.

    I agree to an extent but in the context of this case they are going to make an extradition request. It's not threatening sovereignty to request and want to prosecute somebody IF they facilitated illegal activity in your country.


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  • #202
    tawnyowl
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 517 ✭✭✭tawnyowl


    nm wrote: »
    Are boards.ie moderators responsible for the contents of the posts here?
    Judging by some of the contents on the charter sticky, yes: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055747615 (Specifically the one on Rules on drug discussion.)


  • #203
    end of the road
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,006 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    darkpagandeath wrote: »
    hard drugs are pretty much illegal everywhere.
    doesn't matter. should america be able to extradite someone from ireland who sold an american citizen living here for years drugs? he's point is valid. countries need to bring in laws that stop such extraditions otherwise we will have a serious threat to national security, jurisdiction and more.

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



  • #204
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,046 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    darkpagandeath wrote: »
    hard drugs are pretty much illegal everywhere.

    If you were caught with pills this weekend in Dublin and suddenly, you were being shipped off to America because some American overheard you trying to sell them on the street, I don't think you'd believe it to be fair.


  • #205
    FishOnABike
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,364 ✭✭✭FishOnABike


    topper75 wrote: »
    Not sure what Ireland owes this individual such that we would risk a reputation internationally for harbouring crims. I believe the U.S. judges understand Asbergers plenty good. Book him Danno.
    It would do Ireland's international reputation far more damage to kow tow to extra legal demands from another state.

    The Irish government recently sided with Microsoft in standing up to American law enforcement questionable extra territorial requests for data from an Irish subsidiary.
    http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/12/24/irish_government_sides_with_microsoft_over_us_cops_cloud_data_snatch/

    It is highly important to both Ireland's IT industry and large foreign direct investment sector that Ireland is not seen to be willing to bend the law if subject to political or diplomatic pressure from a larger country.

    Ireland owes every Irish citizen the unbiased critical legal scrutiny of any extradition request and only to determine the validity of an extradition request after all due legal process, without external influence.

    I am not a lawyer but as far as I know the conditions for extradition include, there has to be comparable crimes in both jurisdictions, comparable penalties, fair legal process in the requesting jurisdiction and prima facie evidence of a crime having been committed by the accused in the requesting jurisdiction.


  • #206
    FishOnABike
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,364 ✭✭✭FishOnABike


    Noblong wrote: »
    Can we not just declare these tor networks a millitary tech and bring in a heafty 10 years for those caught using it along with bit coins. We need a deterant ourselves along with every other country.
    :rolleyes:Sure why not declare all encrypted electronic communications illegal ? What could possibly be wrong with this type of approach ?

    While we're at it let's declare roads, cars, petrol stations illegal ? After all they are used by criminals too.


  • #207
    Smiles35
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,749 ✭✭✭Smiles35


    FishOnABike wrote: »
    :rolleyes:Sure why not declare all encrypted electronic communications illegal ? What could possibly be wrong with this type of approach ?

    While we're at it let's declare roads, cars, petrol stations illegal ? After all they are used by criminals too.

    You dont get it. If we are to properly investigate these things and derminine set crimes in multiple jurisdictions then we would need the budget and manpower of interpol.


  • #208
    FishOnABike
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,364 ✭✭✭FishOnABike


    Noblong wrote: »
    You dont get it. If we are to properly investigate these things and derminine set crimes in multiple jurisdictions then we would need the budget and manpower of interpol.
    Can you clarify what you think I don't get ? I think I get 'it' whether 'it' refers to the disproportionate effect of making TOR, VPNs, crypto currencies, encrypted communication or any other tools illegal or the importance of defending our sovereignty and upholding our citizens rights in subjecting the relatively small number of extradition requests received to full and proper legal scrutiny.


  • #209
    Smiles35
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,749 ✭✭✭Smiles35


    FishOnABike wrote: »
    Can you clarify what you think I don't get ? I think I get 'it' whether 'it' refers to the disproportionate effect of making TOR, VPNs, crypto currencies, encrypted communication or any other tools illegal or the importance of defending our sovereignty and upholding our citizens rights in subjecting the relatively small number of extradition requests received to full and proper legal scrutiny.

    Concidering the extradition request isnt an option, they are going with the hang them in public approach. So, what now?


  • #210
    Lemsiper
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 870 ✭✭✭Lemsiper


    Berserker wrote: »
    That's incorrect. The whole idea of SR and the dark web as a whole was that "anything goes".

    Wow, completely clueless and misinformed there from you.

    If you were a member of SR during it's time you would be well aware of the fact CP was entirely against the ethos of the site and eventually weapons were also included.

    The whole 'anything goes' possibly applies to the DN on the broader scale, but on SR, the topic of conversation, this is not correct.


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  • #211
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,292 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    Wompa1 wrote: »
    You're talking out of your arse. Where are you getting your information about the US never extraditing criminals? Link to proof, please

    You also seem to be white washing over Russian history, if you believe they are some bastion of hope for humanity, you're simply naive.

    Gonzalo Sánchez Del Lozada

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/sep/09/america-refusal-extradite-bolivia
    In October 2003, the intensely pro-US president of Bolivia, Gonzalo Sánchez de Lozada, sent his security forces to suppress growing popular protests against the government's energy and globalization policies. Using high-powered rifles and machine guns, his military forces killed 67 men, women and children, and injured 400 more, almost all of whom were poor and from the nation's indigenous Aymara communities. 
    But the refusal of the Obama administration to allow him to stand trial for what are obviously very serious criminal allegations is completely consistent with American conceptions of justice 


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