Cruel reality of life for Gardai

dr.fuzzenstein · 10-07-2015 12:44PM

Can we get back on point?
If you earn 40k and have to eat cereal and sleep in your car, its NOT the fault of your employer.

Potential-Monke · 10-07-2015 12:49PM

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Why? Does he know many others who have suffered that fate?
I'm guessing he doesn't!

There are 3 basic levels of discipline, which basically equate to 1: a slap on the wrist, 2: permanent record of midconduct with a possible fine, or 3: getting fired. Every Garda knows plenty for 1, quite a lot for 2 and even a few for 3. So yes, he probably knows many others.

percy212 · 10-07-2015 12:55PM

However it is the fault of a government that allows a housing market to run amok and encouraged banks to lend money that people could clearly not afford. That government continues to be at fault when it then locks up the market with a quango called NAMA and regressive housing policies. We could call what many including the gardai in these articles are suffering from as "roof over your head poverty". In the case of these gardai, who are employed by the government it is most certainly the employer's fault.

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Can we get back on point?
If you earn 40k and have to eat cereal and sleep in your car, its NOT the fault of your employer.

T-K-O · 10-07-2015 01:05PM

So for a gard to be on the poverty line, we create a new poverty group to suit their needs.

Some people love to play the victim others get out there and make things better for themselves.

sbsquarepants · 10-07-2015 01:33PM

Potential-Monke wrote: »

There are 3 basic levels of discipline, which basically equate to 1: a slap on the wrist, 2: permanent record of midconduct with a possible fine, or 3: getting fired. Every Garda knows plenty for 1, quite a lot for 2 and even a few for 3. So yes, he probably knows many others.

I can remember a handful of cases with links to organised crime and so on - it's extraordinarily rare that a cop gets the sack.
If your friend is living in fear of it he is either corrupt or paranoid.

suicide_circus · 10-07-2015 01:36PM

Buying a family home on a 110% mortgage and finding yourself in negative equity is one thing. Complaining about your hardship in trying to service the mortages on 2 or 3 buy-to-lets is quite another. Not saying that's the case here but an awful lot of gardai are part time landlords.

seamus · 10-07-2015 01:40PM

percy212 wrote: »

However it is the fault of a government that allows a housing market to run amok and encouraged banks to lend money that people could clearly not afford.

The subsequent collapse of the market and the economic fallout from that is of course the fault of the government.

But if you give someone bad advice and they act on that advice, you are not liable for the outcome of that bad advice. So many people don't seem to understand that when you act on someone else's advice and it turns sour, that's your fault and your problem, not theirs.

Joe prim · 10-07-2015 01:45PM

The problem may be entirely due to the cereal, I've often seen kids who fill their bowl right up to the top, almost overflowing, and then add milk.They then only consume about half of the cereal, leaving a large quantity in the bowl, which is then thrown out.This can boost household costs for waste disposal (unless your dog like soggy cereal), and ,if you are a fan of some of the more expensive branded cereals ( Coco Pops, Chocolate and Caviar Special K etc.), this habit can add €s to the average household budget. Perhaps the GRA could introduce "cereal counselling" for their members, showing them how to avoid the misery of breakfast-induced poverty.

Mesrine65 · 10-07-2015 01:46PM

I don't get the hatred/disdain for AGS, there are good & bad in every organization, admittedly there are more than a few bad apples in AGS, but I deal with a lot of Garda in a professional capacity & have always found them to be professional, courteous & diligent in the performance of their duties.

I have a friend in the ERU in Limerick & the wage he takes home, for the shít he has to deal with, would not be an incentive for me to join AGS

Same goes for the PDF, they are paid an abysmal wage for the duties they have to perform.

FFS Dublin Bus drivers earn more & are always whinging about conditions, anti-social behaviour etc.

I do believe the quoted article is a whole bunch of bullshít IMHO, but when the shít hits the fan, who are you going to call on...AGS

keithclancy · 10-07-2015 01:48PM

It's a bit mad that you get paid the same regardless of where you are stationed.

40k a year in Dublin City would be a terrible salary.

40k a year in Cork City you could live quite comfortably.

dr.fuzzenstein · 10-07-2015 01:50PM

percy212 wrote: »

However it is the fault of a government that allows a housing market to run amok and encouraged banks to lend money that people could clearly not afford. That government continues to be at fault when it then locks up the market with a quango called NAMA and regressive housing policies. We could call what many including the gardai in these articles are suffering from as "roof over your head poverty". In the case of these gardai, who are employed by the government it is most certainly the employer's fault.

I was in the same housing market. I also bought a house and have a mortgage.
My GF got laid off from her job and 2 years later it was my turn. She was unemployed and I was doing odd jobs for a few months.
I found work in a factory (a dirty hellhole run by thieving arseholes) and literally ate dirt for nearly 3 years. It was so bad, I took a massive paycut to work in a callcenter after that, because it was my way into tech support.
We had 5 years of absolute hell, the money would run out halfway through the month. We got behind in the mortgage and had to negotiate a deal with our bank so we wouldn't lose the roof over our heads. There were no holidays, no nights out, we still drive the same cars from 5 years ago held together with sticky tape and the house needs everything done.
You know what?
I never had to eat cornflakes out of sheer desperation and I never had to sleep in my car because I couldn't afford my daily 120km commute.
We had to cut back on holidays, nights out, going shopping, cinema, upgrading the cars (mine is an 06 with 335k km on it), buying clothing, stuff for the house, computers, phones, new telly, even necessities like a new fridge, hob and oven (all were half broken, replaced now), you name it, we couldn't afford it.
But we made the most of it, we go cycling locally, every now and then go to Lahinch, we can even afford going out for a few drinks recently, things were never desperate. Also, desperate is a state of mind. I never felt wanting or poor. I'm not poor, I just don't have any money right now. (well, right now, things are better, better job and more money)

PS:
I can't blame my employer, I wouldn't know which one of the 5 employers to blame that I had over the last 6 years.

Fred Swanson · 10-07-2015 01:51PM

This post has been deleted.

irish_dave_83 · 10-07-2015 02:00PM

I understand that he has got wage cuts etc.

But I have a government job too and probably get paid about the same as this garda member(assuming he is a Garda rank). I bought a house in Dublin at the height of the boom, so I have a big mortgage too(assuming he does as well).
Fact is, my net pay now is slightly less that it was 7 years ago despite having 7 increments, this is due to wage cuts and tax cuts. I will moan about it etc, but I had to make some decisions that would enable me to keep a similar lifestyle for me and my family and while it has been stressful on occasion I wouldn't go as far as to say I cant afford petrol to get to work or only eat cereal.

Don't get me wrong they have a hard job, and put up with a lot of guff, but this story is an attempt to get wages restored. I'd like my wages restored too but if they don't get restored I still wont be sleeping in my car, so this is a bit of propaganda from the GRA(or at least inspired by them) if I was to have a guess.

Henlars67 · 10-07-2015 02:42PM

I'd love if there was a way of forcing the 'better off on the dole' brigade to actually live on the dole for a couple of months

darkpagandeath · 10-07-2015 02:52PM

percy212 wrote: »

However it is the fault of a government that allows a housing market to run amok and encouraged banks to lend money that people could clearly not afford. That government continues to be at fault when it then locks up the market with a quango called NAMA and regressive housing policies. We could call what many including the gardai in these articles are suffering from as "roof over your head poverty". In the case of these gardai, who are employed by the government it is most certainly the employer's fault.

Did Nama make them over extend on their earnings ? If they are on a decent wage and struggeling it's only one persons fault.

SteelyDanJalapeno · 10-07-2015 03:33PM

1800 wrote: »

I love when people say life is so much better on the Dole. Go ahead then buddy theres **** all stopping you quitting your job and going on it. See how you like your life being harrassed by idiots in social welfare offices who can click their finger and suspend your payment over nothing. Faceless rude people who have no problem sending threatening letters or phonecalls but when you need them they are nowhere to be found. They'll force you onto pointless out of date FAS courses or a Slavebridge internship, but try and go back to College to better yourself and they will put every obstacle in your way.

I'm know there are certain jobs out there that pay so bad and treat you like dirt, where its better on the scratcher. But a Gardai sergeant with 10 years and all payments that go with it is certainly not something you'd give up for welfare.

You cannot simply quit your job and go on the dole.

Fred Swanson · 10-07-2015 03:37PM

This post has been deleted.

wp_rathead · 10-07-2015 03:46PM

Mesrine65 wrote: »

I don't get the hatred/disdain for AGS, there are good & bad in every organization, admittedly there are more than a few bad apples in AGS, but I deal with a lot of Garda in a professional capacity & have always found them to be professional, courteous & diligent in the performance of their duties.

I have a friend in the ERU in Limerick & the wage he takes home, for the shít he has to deal with, would not be an incentive for me to join AGS

Same goes for the PDF, they are paid an abysmal wage for the duties they have to perform.

FFS Dublin Bus drivers earn more & are always whinging about conditions, anti-social behaviour etc.

I do believe the quoted article is a whole bunch of bullshít IMHO, but when the shít hits the fan, who are you going to call on...AGS

Which is what the thread is pulling the piss out of
I have great respect for AGS but this article is ridiculous and deserves to be ridiculed

arayess · 10-07-2015 03:47PM

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Can we get back on point?
If you earn 40k and have to eat cereal and sleep in your car, its NOT the fault of your employer.

I'm not sure if you are serious. 40k when you previously earned more is probably very hard.
40k with a family is really ****ing hard.

percy212 · 10-07-2015 03:53PM

I am fairly sure you have not Fred. Nor have you given a coherent response.

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

percy212 · 10-07-2015 03:55PM

Honestly this sentence is so ill formed and incoherent I can't understand it enough to cut it to shreds.

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Did Nama make them over extend on their earnings ? If they are on a decent wage and struggeling it's only one persons fault.

percy212 · 10-07-2015 03:57PM

This is what your government wants you to think. Poor? Pull yourself up by the bootstraps! Luckily for them there are enough people in Ireland who buy into this capitalist claptrap, allowing current politicians to ride high on the taxpayer hog. Meanwhile Irish people are suffering. I don't know how the Dail isn't burned to the ground.

T-K-O wrote: »

So for a gard to be on the poverty line, we create a new poverty group to suit their needs.

Some people love to play the victim others get out there and make things better for themselves.

wp_rathead · 10-07-2015 04:00PM

percy212 wrote: »

This is what your government wants you to think. Poor? Pull yourself up by the bootstraps! Luckily for them there are enough people in Ireland who buy into this capitalist claptrap, allowing current politicians to ride high on the taxpayer hog. Meanwhile Irish people are suffering. I don't know how the Dail isn't burned to the ground.

Cause we are not lunatics

seamus · 10-07-2015 04:02PM

percy212 wrote: »

I don't know how the Dail isn't burned to the ground.

Because most people aren't morons who think that the government put themselves in the Dail.

We put them there and if we don't like them we vote them out, we don't burn our own buildings to the ground :rolleyes:

T-K-O · 10-07-2015 04:06PM

percy212 wrote: »

This is what your government wants you to think. Poor? Pull yourself up by the bootstraps! Luckily for them there are enough people in Ireland who buy into this capitalist claptrap, allowing current politicians to ride high on the taxpayer hog. Meanwhile Irish people are suffering. I don't know how the Dail isn't burned to the ground.

No, it's what I think and practice.

This government or any government will not keep me down.
Don't enjoy your work? Change career. Not earning enough money? Hit the books. It really is that simply for the majority of people

I fully understand certain people will always struggle, however, there are far too many 'victims' in Irish society.

il gatto · 10-07-2015 04:07PM

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

New recruits don't get the rent allowance.

That's a pretty poor argument.

I didn't say they did. But you get it when you assigned after 32 weeks. You're being very disingenuous.

il gatto · 10-07-2015 04:11PM

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

New recruits don't get the rent allowance.

That's a pretty poor argument.

You're being disingenuous. I never mentioned new recruits. Only what sum is received as a salary at 32 weeks. Once assigned the rent allowance is paid, even of you don't pay rent.
Was it with quoting me to point out something I didn't even say?

il gatto · 10-07-2015 04:35PM

irish_dave_83 wrote: »

I understand that he has got wage cuts etc.

But I have a government job too and probably get paid about the same as this garda member(assuming he is a Garda rank). I bought a house in Dublin at the height of the boom, so I have a big mortgage too(assuming he does as well).
Fact is, my net pay now is slightly less that it was 7 years ago despite having 7 increments, this is due to wage cuts and tax cuts. I will moan about it etc, but I had to make some decisions that would enable me to keep a similar lifestyle for me and my family and while it has been stressful on occasion I wouldn't go as far as to say I cant afford petrol to get to work or only eat cereal.

Don't get me wrong they have a hard job, and put up with a lot of guff, but this story is an attempt to get wages restored. I'd like my wages restored too but if they don't get restored I still wont be sleeping in my car, so this is a bit of propaganda from the GRA(or at least inspired by them) if I was to have a guess.

7 increments? That's nice. What's an increment? And where do I get them?
Imagine if you didn't get increments, allowances, top-ups etc. That's why people are bitter on this thread. Impossible to wrangle a true figure out of the PS. Lots of complaining and very little figures and the one's you do get don't include all the little extras.

Potential-Monke · 10-07-2015 04:35PM

T-K-O wrote: »

Don't enjoy your work? Change career. Not earning enough money? Hit the books. It really is that simply for the majority of people

Way to over simplify things. Change career, go back to college? It's that simple, to just quit a job, get another one, or go back to college. Never mind that these people may (and probably do) have mortgages, bills, families to cover. You think these people can just quit their job, find another one just like that, or even manage to go back through college? You think the banks and loan companies would be completely understanding that they may not get a penny back for years? Seriously...

il gatto wrote: »

7 increments? That's nice. What's an increment? And where do I get them?
Imagine if you didn't get increments, allowances, top-ups etc. That's why people are bitter on this thread. Impossible to wrangle a true figure out of the PS. Lots of complaining and very little figures and the one's you do get don't include all the little extras.

So you think people would be willing to join a 30 year job without increments? They're given in the private sector too. Not all jobs, no. But a career job? Certainly. And yes, 7 increments. One after attestation (€2,657 pa), after year 1 (€1,532 pa), 2 (€2,577 pa), 3 (€3,433 pa), 5 (€2,053 pa) and 6 (€1,975 pa), one after year 11 (€1,719 pa), and the final one after year 17 (€1,964 pa). Then that's it. Yes, they're increments, but they're very finite. So that's an increase from €25,745 to €45,793 over 17 years and that's it for another 13. Yes, excluding allowances, but not everyone gets them. They're not guaranteed income. If you can come up with a performance based alternative which is fair to all members of AGS, i would love to hear it. Genuinely.

What people are forgetting is that since the recession, the average Garda is down ~€150 a week, due to cuts, increased taxes, 4 pension levies. Yes, the wages were good, the overtime abundant. They were living within their means (and probably quite a few outside it, but there was always the overtime to make up the difference). Now, they are down €150 a week, €600+ a month down. That makes a huge difference. That's why some of them may be playing the poor card. They were living within their means, with a lot saving up anything extra. Yes, they could afford 2+ holidays a year. Yes, they probably have fancy cares more than likely on hire purchase. All living within their means, until the recession.

And aside from someone with an interest in economics, they couldn't see it coming. Grand to say that anyone with a bit of sense and cop on could see it coming, but the majority don't care about economics. I've no interest in economics, so i have no idea if the recession is over, still going strong, getting better...

And enough of the giving out about how exorbitant their wages were. That's what was offered. Most people didn't take it because they either had no interest in the job, or didn't think it was enough for what the job entails. And no, no one truly knew what the job entailed. Yeah, basic overview, but no one could tell them that the job would change so drastically in the last 10 years. It's not what it was back then, be it for better or worse.

il gatto · 10-07-2015 05:02PM

Potential-Monke wrote: »

Way to over simplify things. Change career, go back to college? It's that simple, to just quit a job, get another one, or go back to college. Never mind that these people may (and probably do) have mortgages, bills, families to cover. You think these people can just quit their job, find another one just like that, or even manage to go back through college? You think the banks and loan companies would be completely understanding that they may not get a penny back for years? Seriously...

So you think people would be willing to join a 30 year job without increments? They're given in the private sector too. Not all jobs, no. But a career job? Certainly. And yes, 7 increments. One after attestation (€2,657 pa), after year 1 (€1,532 pa), 2 (€2,577 pa), 3 (€3,433 pa), 5 (€2,053 pa) and 6 (€1,975 pa), one after year 11 (€1,719 pa), and the final one after year 17 (€1,964 pa). Then that's it. Yes, they're increments, but they're very finite. So that's an increase from €25,745 to €45,793 over 17 years and that's it for another 13. Yes, excluding allowances, but not everyone gets them. They're not guaranteed income. If you can come up with a performance based alternative which is fair to all members of AGS, i would love to hear it. Genuinely.

What people are forgetting is that since the recession, the average Garda is down ~€150 a week, due to cuts, increased taxes, 4 pension levies. Yes, the wages were good, the overtime abundant. They were living within their means (and probably quite a few outside it, but there was always the overtime to make up the difference). Now, they are down €150 a week, €600+ a month down. That makes a huge difference. That's why some of them may be playing the poor card. They were living within their means, with a lot saving up anything extra. Yes, they could afford 2+ holidays a year. Yes, they probably have fancy cares more than likely on hire purchase. All living within their means, until the recession.

And aside from someone with an interest in economics, they couldn't see it coming. Grand to say that anyone with a bit of sense and cop on could see it coming, but the majority don't care about economics. I've no interest in economics, so i have no idea if the recession is over, still going strong, getting better...

And enough of the giving out about how exorbitant their wages were. That's what was offered. Most people didn't take it because they either had no interest in the job, or didn't think it was enough for what the job entails. And no, no one truly knew what the job entailed. Yeah, basic overview, but no one could tell them that the job would change so drastically in the last 10 years. It's not what it was back then, be it for better or worse.

The Gardai are over subscribed even now. Even with the poor mouth stories in the press.
And in the private sector, most people get a rise at the whim of their employer. You don't automatically get one. You want more money, you go job hunting.
And ultimately the fact is that a guard's job is safe. None of them lost their jobs as happened hundreds of thousands in the private sector.

Cruel reality of life for Gardai

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