Views on my son's 5k time

Lex Luther · 22-06-2015 09:18AM #1

Hi my son was 11 in June.
He recently ran a 5k road race in just under 22 minutes off no specific training and it didnt seem to knock a feather out of him.
(He's generally fit through playing lots of sport).
What I'm wondering is , how does taht time sound to people who know for that age ? Should I see about getting him into a club ( he'd have to ditch some other sport but if he has a bit of talent at running I want to give him a chance to develop).
Thanks for any thoughts.
Lex

Notwork Error · 22-06-2015 10:17AM

Lex Luther wrote: »

Hi my son was 11 in June.
He recently ran a 5k road race in just under 22 minutes off no specific training and it didnt seem to knock a feather out of him.
(He's generally fit through playing lots of sport).
What I'm wondering is , how does taht time sound to people who know for that age ? Should I see about getting him into a club ( he'd have to ditch some other sport but if he has a bit of talent at running I want to give him a chance to develop).
Thanks for any thoughts.
Lex

That's very good running for an 11 year old.

I think the key here though is what he wants to do. If he doesn't want to run, don't push him into dropping other sports that he may prefer. All the talent in the world means nothing if he doesn't enjoy it as somewhere down the line, the cracks will start to show and it won't matter how good he is running, he'll pack it in.

If he wants to do it, sign him up to a club and encourage him. It should be all about fun at that age and he'll meet loads of new friends as well.

Clearlier · 22-06-2015 10:29AM

Lex Luther wrote: »

Hi my son was 11 in June.
He recently ran a 5k road race in just under 22 minutes off no specific training and it didnt seem to knock a feather out of him.
(He's generally fit through playing lots of sport).
What I'm wondering is , how does taht time sound to people who know for that age ? Should I see about getting him into a club ( he'd have to ditch some other sport but if he has a bit of talent at running I want to give him a chance to develop).
Thanks for any thoughts.
Lex

Hey Lex,

Get him doing as many sports as he likes. At this stage it's all about enjoyment and general skill development. Specialisation if appropriate comes at 15 or 16. It's absolutely impossible to say whether an 11 year old is going to be a great athlete or not - it's just too early.

Chivito550 · 22-06-2015 10:53AM

11 year olds should not be running 5k races IMO. By all means sign him up with an athletics club and let him try out all the various disciplines, and he'll find the ones that he likes the most. 11 year olds should be running 100s and 800s, and jumping into sand, leaping over a bar, and throwing a spear as far as possible, not slogging it out through miles.

walshb · 22-06-2015 10:57AM

Excellent time.

As to the age and the distance, if he has bundles of energy what's the harm? I know we ran/jogged 2/3/4 miles when training as kids in boxing. It's not at all slogging it out if the kid has a good make up.

Dubgal72 · 22-06-2015 11:00AM

Hi Lex, great advice above. At your son's age, variety is key. If he decides to specialise in running at age 15 or 16 as Clearlier suggests, all the skills he has learned from other sports and disciplines will come with him and help make him a more holistic, and therefore better, athlete. Also, if it goes pear-shaped and running does not work out for him, he has 'something else' to fall back on.

Lex Luther · 22-06-2015 11:03AM

Thanks to all..he loves running, I wouldnt at all want him running so far normally and would discourage - but it was just a local fun run that he really wanted to try. He normally does sprints etc for school, community games.
He's sports mad - does soccer, gaa, hurling and wants to do everything. Something has to give and I'm just trying to figure out best for him. His run suprised me, I was expecting him to be much slower/ find it much harder. I just wondered whether the time seemed good and that maybe I should let him try out athletics a bit more seriously..as a proud dad I'm conscious I'm obviously biased.
Thanks again !

Chivito550 · 22-06-2015 11:07AM

Lex Luther wrote: »

Thanks to all..he loves running, I wouldnt at all want him running so far normally and would discourage - but it was just a local fun run that he really wanted to try. He normally does sprints etc for school, community games.
He's sports mad - does soccer, gaa, hurling and wants to do everything. Something has to give and I'm just trying to figure out best for him. His run suprised me, I was expecting him to be much slower/ find it much harder. I just wondered whether the time seemed good and that maybe I should let him try out athletics a bit more seriously..as a proud dad I'm conscious I'm obviously biased.
Thanks again !

What are his times for the sprints and other short distances? If you have those times then it is easier to tell how good his 5k time is relatively speaking.

demfad · 22-06-2015 11:28AM

Lex Luther wrote: »

Thanks to all..he loves running, I wouldnt at all want him running so far normally and would discourage - but it was just a local fun run that he really wanted to try. He normally does sprints etc for school, community games.
He's sports mad - does soccer, gaa, hurling and wants to do everything. Something has to give and I'm just trying to figure out best for him. His run suprised me, I was expecting him to be much slower/ find it much harder. I just wondered whether the time seemed good and that maybe I should let him try out athletics a bit more seriously..as a proud dad I'm conscious I'm obviously biased.
Thanks again !

Hi Lex. Enjoyment is key.

These trail/hill races are off road and mighty crack. They have short courses for juniors too.

https://www.imra.ie/leagues/view/id/240/

Look at these orienteering events too, in particular the 'come and try it' events. Short course can be done in well under and hour. They are like a running treasure hunt.

Developing all round skills is important. Enjoyment is key and if he enjoys running aerobic miles then there you go. It will do him only good.

Notwork Error · 22-06-2015 11:37AM

Chivito550 wrote: »

11 year olds should not be running 5k races IMO. By all means sign him up with an athletics club and let him try out all the various disciplines, and he'll find the ones that he likes the most. 11 year olds should be running 100s and 800s, and jumping into sand, leaping over a bar, and throwing a spear as far as possible, not slogging it out through miles.

I agree that kids should try out all the events and see what they like best.

Not so much on the slogging, that makes it sound really negative. When I was 11, I used to run 10k's and it didn't hurt me. We used to go out and play soccer on the green for so long during in the evening, weekend and summer that the score would often reach triple digits. I'm pretty sure I was running more miles and at a higher intensity as an 11 year old than I am at 25 and never felt tired. I'd recover almost instantly.

That natural fitness and all round energy is just incredible at that age. As Joe Vigil says, Kenyan youths are running up to 8-12k per day and have racked up almost 10,000 miles by the time they reach highschool. They are no different to any other kids, that's just a cultural perception.

If the kid is enjoying running miles and doing it under their own motivation, I don't see a problem with running long distance and the studies are there to back it up. A young kid is no more likely to suffer injury or physiological damage than a fully grown adult.

Wottle · 22-06-2015 11:41AM

It's a good time and its a time I'd expect most of our 11year olds to be able to run, if not quicker. But they don't race 5ks.
They race 600m on the track and times range from 1'43 to 2'00 mins which is about 4:40 to 5:15 mile pace.
I think if he likes running, get him in a club, he doesn't have to specialise either, athletics has loads of events, javelin, long jump etc and see how he goes over 600m. Sounds like he has a good engine.
In xc the most they would race is 1500 to 2000m.

Tigerandahalf · 22-06-2015 11:50AM

There are young lads running similar times in parkruns around us. It would be as good a time as most young lads would be running.
Let him enjoy it and if the desire and talent is there it will naturally come out.
Out of interest what distance will the junior parkrun be and under what age?

RayCun · 22-06-2015 01:06PM

Get him into a club

and I agree with Chivito (!!! alert the newspapers !!!) he shouldn't be running those distances
With any runner, of any age, a long distance run will tend to be bad for your running form. You get tired, you slump over, your stride shortens etc. Too much tired running, and not enough thought about form, and you end up a one-paced shuffler. Kids like to run fast, and they recover quickly, but they don't have much endurance. 5k is very far for them, and too much running like that will be very bad for their running technique

Being a good runner at 11 isn't always a good indicator of being a good runner at 15, or 19, or 25, by the way. But if he enjoys it, he'll do better with proper coaching than going out and doing a parkrun every weekend (which far too many kids do)

average_runner · 22-06-2015 01:36PM

I agree with Ray and Chivito, get him into a club where they work on his technique and form. Everything else will come as he progresses. But let him enjoy it all.

ThisRegard · 22-06-2015 02:29PM

Notwork Error wrote: »

That natural fitness and all round energy is just incredible at that age.

Problem is that it can be old pretty quick, kids get bored doing the same thing quite easily, they need a bit of variation.

Pherekydes · 22-06-2015 02:38PM

It's ok, but you'll have to face facts: your son is no Superman.

Pawwed Rig · 22-06-2015 02:46PM

Chivito550 wrote: »

11 year olds should not be running 5k races IMO.

Why as a matter of interest?
I have a 10 year old niece who does that distance regularly enough. Any research I have read would seem to indicate that it is no harm once the child enjoys it.

walshb · 22-06-2015 02:58PM

Looking back on some of the points made as regards young children running long distances I have to say that they are very valid points. No harm in it, but not as advisable as starting off on the shorter distances to develop and nurture!

rom · 22-06-2015 04:11PM

Age graded its 69.58% which would be similar to a 18:32 for a 23 year old male time. So yes he could come top 10 in a 5k (depending on the field)

tbh its probably more important that he likes running/racing at this stage. The current 10k Irish champ used to finish in 20+ places at 13/14 so those that "showed more potential" at the time are all gone. Longevity is more important than his times currently.

Having him give up team sports to focus on athletics is probably not a great idea.

Field/team sports with sprinting is probably quite complementary to short distance running.

Age graded is normally representative of the percentages below.

>100% = World record level
> 90% = World class
> 80% = National class
> 70% = Regional class
> 0% = An Athlete

Notwork Error · 22-06-2015 08:14PM

Ah lads, I think ye're being a bit harsh on the time. You're talking about an 11 year old who has done no actual run training and just jumped into a 5k fun run.

Wottle · 22-06-2015 08:44PM

Notwork Error wrote: »

Ah lads, I think ye're being a bit harsh on the time. You're talking about an 11 year old who has done no actual run training and just jumped into a 5k fun run.

I agree, I think it's a great starting point and I'd love to get him into our club, XC only around the corner.
PM me if you're looking for info on juvenile clubs (south Dublin area)

walshb · 23-06-2015 07:46AM

Notwork Error wrote: »

Ah lads, I think ye're being a bit harsh on the time. You're talking about an 11 year old who has done no actual run training and just jumped into a 5k fun run.

I don't think harsh is the correct word here. I don't think anybody is being harsh. Just giving an honest answer to the question. Seems like a great time to me.

23-06-2015 08:55AM

Orienteering is a great sport for families. My 6 month old has already posted 2 times in a pram, though she is useless for spotting the controls and just laughs at the leaves.

Lex Luther · 23-06-2015 03:47PM

Again thanks to everyone for taking the time to give honest feedback which I really appreciate and which has helped enormously.
Just wanted to get some objective views and opinions as the advice and knowledge here is always very good.
Lex

Tom__jnr2 · 23-06-2015 04:17PM

Lex Luther wrote: »

Hi my son was 11 in June.
He recently ran a 5k road race in just under 22 minutes off no specific training and it didnt seem to knock a feather out of him.
(He's generally fit through playing lots of sport).
What I'm wondering is , how does taht time sound to people who know for that age ? Should I see about getting him into a club ( he'd have to ditch some other sport but if he has a bit of talent at running I want to give him a chance to develop).
Thanks for any thoughts.
Lex

Fair play for your son...support him and you will have great athlete in few years. Would say shorter distances firts to develope his speed. There is always time for endurance training.

P.S. His time puts many adults into shame...

Myles Splitz · 24-06-2015 07:05PM

shiibata wrote: »

Did do 5Ks at a young age but he stopped as was told not good for that age.

A child should never be discouraged from a sport and anyone ruling them out that young really doesn't know what they are on about.

Three factors which need to be taken into account are natural talent, response to training and puberty as all have huge impact on performance at that age.

If the child has an interest in sport encourage but let them make the choice and facilitate that choice. Early specialization is not usually encouraged in distance running better to develop wide range of functional movement skills and visual sensory skills that have greater transference over a wide range of sports and day to day activities later in life.

Pawwed Rig · 24-06-2015 09:45PM

shiibata wrote: »

:rolleyes: I only said he was advised against 5Ks at that young age, I never said he was discouraged from the sport, far from it.

Why though? You're not the first on this thread to say something similar

RayCun · 24-06-2015 10:09PM

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Why though? You're not the first on this thread to say something similar

Because athletes need to learn the skill of running. The more 'bad' running you do, the more bad habits you pick up, and that is particularly true if you are running long and slow. And if you have a kid who is very active anyway from other sports, there is even less need to worry about developing their endurance. Make them good runners and the endurance will follow in time.

Pawwed Rig · 24-06-2015 10:16PM

IMO the most important thing is that they are enjoying it. Where they enjoy it they keep active and will find their preferred sport/distance over time.

While I am sure you can find arguments for and against this was a article from one website that I found interesting http://www.runnersworld.com/high-school/should-kids-run-long

Notwork Error · 24-06-2015 10:49PM

RayCun wrote: »

Because athletes need to learn the skill of running. The more 'bad' running you do, the more bad habits you pick up, and that is particularly true if you are running long and slow. And if you have a kid who is very active anyway from other sports, there is even less need to worry about developing their endurance. Make them good runners and the endurance will follow in time.

But is the slow running ruins your form idea a fallacy? Most kids have great form(there are exceptions of course). When I think of kids who ran long distances young under their own motivation, I think of guys like Moses Mosop here:

http://thumbs.dreamstime.com/z/moses-mosop-samsung-diamond-league-eugene-19782776.jpg

He's a guy with sub-50 400m speed which would put many a sprinter to shame.

I think of Gerry Lindgren, John Treacy and every runner pre 1990. Many people point to the adoption of the Coe/Horwill low mileage, high intensity training by coaches in the early 90's as the death of distance running in Europe and America. Coaches only wanted the kids to run middle distance as they thought that was how you make an athlete and all these ideas of long distance running ruining form and kids ability to progress started to pop up or even that it stunts growth.

There is nothing to back up claims that long distance running impacts kids in any negative way. In fact, running hard intervals is far more damaging and at risk of burnout. There is plenty of evidence to back up that long distance running will not do anymore harm to them than adults.

The key thing is what the kid wants to do and enjoying it. As a guy who has first hand experience of running long distance as a kid, it didn't do me any harm, I could still go out and win 600m races which while probably my strongest event at the time, I never enjoyed it as much as running long. Obviously, my view is biased but I'd still like to know where you coming from Ray?

RayCun · 25-06-2015 10:19AM

Notwork Error wrote: »

But is the slow running ruins your form idea a fallacy? Most kids have great form

I'd say long and slow, but especially tired running

Kids (in my experience at least) are very prone to starting too fast and finishing at a slog. And a lot of them don't have great form to begin with - arms all over the place, feet dragging or kicking out behind, you name it. Kids like to run fast, which usually looks better than their parents' jogging

. That's kind of the point, keep them running fast!

Many people point to the adoption of the Coe/Horwill low mileage, high intensity training by coaches in the early 90's as the death of distance running in Europe and America. Coaches only wanted the kids to run middle distance as they thought that was how you make an athlete and all these ideas of long distance running ruining form and kids ability to progress started to pop up or even that it stunts growth.

sure, you can go too far the other way. I wouldn't set a hard limit on how far an 11 year old should be running, and whatever distance it is for a particular 11 year old, you'd expect it to go up with age.

But whatever you do with an 11 year old, you should be thinking about how this is going to benefit them 10 years down the line. Improving their technique as a runner is going to keep paying off for the rest of their running lives. A steady 10/15 minute run at a controlled pace has its place in building strength. 800-1500m races, sure, and the future distance runners will enjoy them more than a sprint.

A 5k race? The fact that its a race means they'll be running as fast as they can, and they can't sustain that, so they are going to spend half the race running badly.* Where is the benefit?

*I see this a lot. There are some kids around my son's age who compete with him in XC and 600/800 on the track. I've also seen them run some road 5ks. On the track they're graceful. At the end of XC they're tired but strong. At the end of a road race they look like they have a bag full of bricks on their backs.

Views on my son's 5k time

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