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DCM 2015: Mentored Novices Thread
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Hi Novices, some of you will know that my PC chose last weekend to die, the weekend the updated boards plan was to be posted :rolleyes: Adrian522 has very kindly come to the rescue so those of you who have been holding your breath, breathe because it will be up later
Apologies for the delay.0 -
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mobfromcork wrote: »Some good reading in the last few pages and good points about running form and the breathing article was interesting. Good week of running for me and the knee injury seems to be doing ok. I read up a lot more about pacing over the last few weeks based on recommendations on this thread and I have being running far too fast in most training runs over the past 6-8 months. Based on my most recent race (half marathon in February) I should only be running at a 9.07 minutes per mile for my easy runs or 5.40 minutes per km. I was generally running my easy runs at around 5.00 minutes per km and long runs at around 5.15 - 5.20 minutes per km on average.
This week I slowed down a bit. I did last week's LSR on Monday. I was in Ardmore for the weekend and did runs on both mornings as it was so nice. Took the second morning really easy and enjoyed the views and sunshine. Probably a bit much in one week for this stage but really enjoyed running somewhere different, especially next to the sea which makes a big change from my city/park routes.
Monday 9.5 miles @ 8.31 minute per mile average pace. 1hr 21
Wednesday 3.1 miles @ 8.30 minute per mile average pace
Thursday 7.2 miles @ 8.32 minute per mile average pace - this included 5 x 15 second strides
Saturday 9.83 miles @ 8.30 minute per mile average pace
Sunday 8.66 miles @ 8.46 minute per mile? average pace.
Total mileage - 38.3 miles
I am also trying to make the changeover to measuring in miles rather than km. I now spend most of my runs manipulating fractions.
This week I plan to do two easy 3 or 4 mile runs and one faster 6 mile session session in between. Will go for around 10-11 miles this weekend for my LSR. I have been reading about the VDOT values which were linked to earlier in the thread and have treated myself to a new Garmin Forerunner with a HRM during the week. A friend kindly lent me his watch for a few months but I took the plunge myself last week. I'm going to stick on the HRM for the runs this week to see what shape my ticker is in during and after my running.
I got a heart rate app from Runtastic which measures your heart rate using the camera flash light on your phone. I have been using it on and off for a few months, mainly for resting heart rate. My HR during the middle of the day at work etc is usually between 48-55 bpm. Mornings are around 43- 47 bpm. I didn't use the app during or after running as it's a bit unwieldy to use when moving but hopefully the Garmin HRM will give me that information now. It'll be interesting to see how my HR corresponds to my current pacing for both easy and faster runs.
Hope everyone's training is going well. Looking forward to starting the plan in a few weeks,
Mob
Hi mob, good, steady week's running there but I noticed that there is not much variation in paces between longer and shorter runs. Was that intentional? Your 9 mile run looked a bit fast too. The key to marathon training is getting your aerobic base built up by time on your feet. You will achieve this effectively by slowing down and building up the miles. If you look at your planned 'realistic finishing time' (3:45), this indicates that all your runs last week were done at PMP (planned marathon pace). Slow everything down right now, there will be plenty of tempo, HM pace and PMP runs for you down the line
If you plan to use a HRM for training, have you looked into establishing your max HR? From there you can work out what zones to stay in for different training runs. I think this is the most effective way of using a HRM.0 -
Thanks for that denis_b, I think there are a few lessons there for everyone!Back in the saddle again. Did something not so good to my back 9 days ago out of the blue. Rested and followed physio advice and managed a very comfortable 5km run this morning.
On reflection I think that I definitely over-trained for Belfast. I used my down week and bought and read Advanced Marathoning. I think that too many of my sessions were run too quickly as I was feeling so good initially. I was constantly feeling quite cold and was sleeping very very poorly for a combination of reasons. That was probably my undoing. I also got hit with 3 low grade chest colds/sinus type infections over the 18 weeks. There is every likelihood that these events were linked and that I got gradually worn down. That seemed to increase my resolve to work harder for the next session and so on...
Have rested and now appreciate that it is an integral part of training and I will just continue to build up mileage slowly to match my initial plan needs. I cannot recommend the Kinetica Revolution 30 day challenge enough so thanks for the heads up on that folks. Balance, core, flexibility, form and strength are all improving.
The LSR issue: I was following the Hal Higdon Intermediate and was running the LSR way too fast following a MP run the previous day. I think that, along with the above, just proved to be too much. Not surprised but hey you live and learn.
Shall I recap?!
Novices:
Rest and recovery are as important as training days. You don't have to rest completely but for you guys, a hard day should always be followed by an easy day. Which leads us to pace:
Slow down!!
Do your core/strength and conditioning....this is not an 'add-on', it's an integral part of your training.
get to bed early! *wags finger* If you are not getting your 8 hours nightly, you won't train as well, you won't recover as well...and you will pick up every sniffle that is going. Marathon training will compromise your immune system. Indeed, a hard training session and/or race will leave your immune system compromised for up to 72 hours. So
Don't get cold: shower ASAP after training and if you can't do that, have a complete change of clothes to hand.
Lecture over...for now
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Hi Tommy, no medical advice here but I can tell you that I have had hamstring issues on a few occasions over the last year or more. As the training load increases they struggle. Mainly because I don't do enough focus S&C work to help load/strengthen them. Anyway on the last two occasions the problem has been very localised and dry needling has done the job for me. This allowed me to get back running relatively quickly but it takes me anything up to a month or more to get back up to pace. As with most of these things patience is the biggest factor. Start slow and build back up. The more you rush it the more chance of a backward step. If the hamstrings are a regular issue for you try to build in specific loading exercises to reduce future risk.....do as I say and not as I do would be my main piece of advise;)
Best of luck with the injury and the training when you get back to it.
+1 to this, thanks FBOT 0 -
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hopefully not too late to be posting this but only seen this thread lately, anyway here goes
1.What is your athletics background? Have you run before? What other sports have you taken part in and at what level?
after an unsuccessful junior football career, I have ran various amounts over the last 7-8 yrs, 2011&2012 being my best focussed yrs & most pbs were set then. I joined my local running club then which is no coincidence!
had a injury disaster last yr from may til December but is behind me now. did ballyvaughan 10k (54min as part of 9mile long run) & galway 5k series (best time 23.30) & doing portumna half marathon on Saturday so will see how that goes
2.Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs? (Date and distance please!)
5k - 22:45 (galway april 2012)
8k - 36:19 (SoG june 2011)
10k - 46:50 (coole park april 2011)
10m - 1:23:08 (kilnaboy april 2014)
Half - 1:44:43 (Waterford dec 2012)
3.Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training ? (No problem if you do)
no
4.How much training do you currently do incl cross training? running 2-3 times a week on average, have built up wkend run from 6miles by 1 mile per wk since april for portumna, Tuesday speed session or galway 5k series race & an other
5.How many days a week can you train?
Up to 5 times a week, but would prefer a 4 day per week program.
6.What do you want to achieve? Dream finishing time and realistic finishing time? Or just complete it in no specified time?
1. finish it 2. run 3hrs 50
7.What marathon programme are you following/intending to use?
don't know yet, any 4 day a week training programme you would recommend?
Hi bluestone and welcome, never too late It's very encouraging that you have a reasonable base to work off and also have been doing some speed work. For that reason, I'd recommend the boards plan. You can tweak it (drop an easy or recovery run) to suit you but I would strongly recommend that you sacrifice a slice or two of life halfway through the programme at the latest to up your weekly running total to 5 and eventually six days. How close do you want to get to your target?!
Let us know how you get on in Portumna, it's a great opportunity to benchmark 0 -
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get to bed early! *wags finger* If you are not getting your 8 hours nightly, you won't train as well, you won't recover as well...and you will pick up every sniffle that is going. Marathon training will compromise your immune system. Indeed, a hard training session and/or race will leave your immune system compromised for up to 72 hours. So
Don't get cold: shower ASAP after training and if you can't do that, have a complete change of clothes to hand.
Lecture over...for now
This is the hardest one for me, the going to bed early. Or rather, the getting 8 hours of sleep! I didn't know that about the immune system so that's good to know. I'll try my hardest to combat my sleeping problems!0 -
Hi all, in a moment of madness yesterday I decided that this would be the perfect year to attempt the DCM!
What is your athletics background? Have you run before? What other sports have you taken part in and at what level?
I only started running in the last five years and have dipped in and out of it since then. I do a lot more resistance training these days but still try to run every week just to keep my hand in. Haven't raced since Dunshaughlin 2013 :eek: Nothing of particular sporty note in my background either!
Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs? (Date and distance please)
Year Distance Race PB
2013 5km 26.22
2013 10km 58.07
Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training ? (No problem if you do) Well not for the training I am doing at them moment but then again that is not very much!!
How much training do you currently do ? Distances, cross training - whatever you think is relevant to your current fitness level.
I do strength and resistance training at least 3 times a week so a combination of free weight and body-weight exercises. There's also a little cardio thrown in for good measure and also I try to do at least one run a week (5-10km) and usually a couple of km to warm up before cross-training.
How many days a week can you train?
I could manage 5 days a week at the moment.
What do you want to achieve? Dream finishing time and realistic finishing time? Or just complete it in no specified time?
I'd really like to finish! Ideally in less than 4.30 but if I can committ to the training and go into it feeling like I have prepared properly then I'll be happy wahtever the outcome. I've always loved DCM and so admire the people that run in it so I'd really like to be a part of that.
What marathon programme are you following/intending to use?
I'm going with the Hal Higdon Novice 1 for the moment.
So that's that! Looking forward to being involved in this thread and thanks to all the contributors. Bring it on!!!!!!
Hi Toulouse and welcome I think you've said it yourself there that you'd 'like to go into it feeling like you have prepared properly'. I'm a little concerned at your preparation pre-plan. You really should be comfortably running 20 miles per week by now. There is no way I could recommend that you jump into the plan on the 22nd, you would be looking at a high injury risk. The alternative is that you gradually enter the HH novice plan but that in itself will leave you under-prepared for DCM, especially as you are lacking a running base of 12-24 months. Is there any way I can persuade you to hold off for 2016?! Several more experienced runners on this forum have nailed that date to their calendar so you will be in very good company.....have a think anyway. 0 -
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Hi mob, good, steady week's running there but I noticed that there is not much variation in paces between longer and shorter runs. Was that intentional? Your 9 mile run looked a bit fast too. The key to marathon training is getting your aerobic base built up by time on your feet. You will achieve this effectively by slowing down and building up the miles. If you look at your planned 'realistic finishing time' (3:45), this indicates that all your runs last week were done at PMP (planned marathon pace). Slow everything down right now, there will be plenty of tempo, HM pace and PMP runs for you down the line
If you plan to use a HRM for training, have you looked into establishing your max HR? From there you can work out what zones to stay in for different training runs. I think this is the most effective way of using a HRM.
Hiya Dubgal and thanks for the reply,
I'm really trying to slow down. I did most previous training runs at around 8 minutes per mile. I did the Monday run with a friend of mine who's also training for DCM and we just got into a rhythm where we were chatting away as we ran but it was at 8.30 per mile pace. I'm did a very easy run with another friend this morning - 3.13 miles @ 9.12 per mile pace. I'm going to do a faster run tomorrow morning with a few strides or hill sprints thrown in.
My best half time has a projected full marathon time of sub 3.30 according to a few different websites so I'm going to keep that as my goal rather than the 3.45 and pace accordingly. If it transpires that I'm unable for that pace, I'll readjust over the next while. For now I'm going to concentrate on getting mainly slow miles done and try to concentrate on form and do some speed work.
I'll try and ascertain my Max HR over the next few days.
Thanks again for your advice
Mark0 -
Hi Toulouse and welcome Is there any way I can persuade you to hold off for 2016?! Several more experienced runners on this forum have nailed that date to their calendar so you will be in very good company.....have a think anyway.
Thanks for the advice but I'm all signed up and determined to give it a go. Will just have to see how I get on!0 -
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Well lookee here, what just popped up on my FB feed It comes recommended by a European Masters level athlete so pay attention Novices! It's only seven minutes long so stick the kettle on...
They recommend accelerating your strides up to 90% but you don't need to go quite that high for marathon training. Also don't stress about hitting the recommended cadence/foot strike either. We're going to keep things simple for now
It's funny though, while running in my local park lately, I have had a real urge to take my runners off and run barefoot. I used to, a long time ago, and this has made my mind up: next run = naked feet*
In case the link isn't working:
http://youtu.be/wCVSv7UxB2E
*If you decide to do this, make sure you scan the area beforehand for poop and sharp stuff :eek:
http://youtu.be/wCVSv7UxB2E0 -
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Thanks for the advice but I'm all signed up and determined to give it a go. Will just have to see how I get on!
I had a feeling you'd say that Ok, we'll help you as much as we can so you need to listen to us but most of all, you need to listen to your body.
I mentioned it earlier in the thread, you all need to be in tune with your body to the nth degree, running, walking, eating and sleeping 0 -
I had a feeling you'd say that Ok, we'll help you as much as we can so you need to listen to us but most of all, you need to listen to your body.
I mentioned it earlier in the thread, you all need to be in tune with your body to the nth degree, running, walking, eating and sleeping
Deal! 0 -
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