The Irish language is failing.

ThinkProgress · 31-05-2015 08:34PM

Shep_Dog wrote: »

The greatest reform of all would be to make learning Irish voluntary. But that would require the Irish lobby to show confidence in the merits of Irish.

They know if they made it voluntary tomorrow, the language would probably be dead within a few years. (except for a few pockets here and there)

So, basically the language is being kept alive artificially by forcing it on us. (at the cost of many millions to the tax payer)

Aineoil · 31-05-2015 08:37PM

ThinkProgress wrote: »

If it's not dead, it's certainly on life support.

Nobody wants to be the one to turn the switch off. They'll be labelled as unpatriotic or a west brit or something stupid like that! :P

It would be a brave government that would do that. But Gaeilge is alive in the Gaelscoileanna.

Iwasfrozen · 31-05-2015 08:37PM

I have never heard one non nationalist reason why I should speak Irish.

Iwasfrozen · 31-05-2015 08:39PM

Aineoil wrote: »

It would be a brave government that would do that. But Gaeilge is alive in the Gaelscoileanna.

Were Irish to be made optional in the leaving do you think these schools would be so popular? I don't think so.

Personally I think we should put more effort into STEM subjects in primary school and less religion / Irish.

I don't know if it's still the same but when I was younger children entered secondary school without even knowing what algebra is! :eek:

tipparetops · 31-05-2015 08:40PM

do not understand the attitude among some posters.
You should all start again with the language. give it another chance.
Irish is not as hard to learn as some here think. It is in our blood, you just have to show some effort.
with 2016 celebrations coming up, what better way to show some patriotism.

Iwasfrozen · 31-05-2015 08:42PM

tipparetops wrote: »

do not understand the attitude among some posters.
You should all start again with the language. give it another chance.
Irish is not as hard to learn as some here think. It is in our blood, you just have to show some effort.
with 2016 celebrations coming up, what better way to show some patriotism.

Why should we?

Reiver · 31-05-2015 08:43PM

Hated it in school. Be relearning it for a year now. I dropped down to pass in 6th year because I couldn't hack writing essays and An Triail.

Not just learning for nationalistic reasons but because believe it or not, it helps with other languages. Already knew German and learning Polish as well. Learning a language helps you learn more and Irish it seems was already half-learned, just tucked away in my head. Nothing wrong with some extra knowledge.

Shrap · 31-05-2015 08:44PM

Aineoil wrote: »

I'm just fed up of the crap about the language.

Don't blame you and am hoping you don't blame me either. Am honestly an innocent party in the debacle the school system threw out, no better and no worse than any other, and certainly no less Irish by dint of not speaking or loving the language....although it feels like some would have it so.

If you felt Peig murdered you - fine. (and you'd be ancient like me if you studied Peig)

If you hate Irish - fine.

If you like Irish - fine.

I really don't care.

Bad teaching of Irish? I could say the same of maths.

The teaching of maths in the 1970's was just awful.

It was all computation and no problem solving.

Indeed I am as ancient as you so! I totally agree that you either like it or dislike it (Irish), and either way doesn't make you any more or less Irish than the other. However, the compulsory aspect, combined with the distinct advantages given to those who pass, cannot be construed as equal treatment in a country where virtually no Irish is spoken. Yes, the teaching of maths was awful, and I'm not in a position to comment on any improvement in the area, but at least not having maths doesn't rule you out of a whole University, whereas not having Irish can and does.

tipparetops · 31-05-2015 08:44PM

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Why should we?

Sorry i was posting to Irish people, not people in general.

Aineoil · 31-05-2015 08:46PM

I don't have firm ideas about the Irish language - you either speak it or you don't.

One day I was speaking Irish to another work colleague because it was natural to do so, another work colleague heard us and asked us "to stop

raving".

Iwasfrozen · 31-05-2015 08:48PM

tipparetops wrote: »

Sorry i was posting to Irish people, not people in general.

Checks passport,

I'm Irish. Now answer the question.

Shrap · 31-05-2015 08:48PM

Aineoil wrote: »

I don't have firm ideas about the Irish language - you either speak it or you don't.

One day I was speaking Irish to another work colleague because it was natural to do so, another work colleague heard us and asked us "to stop

raving".

'Tis a pity you don't have firm ideas on whether Irish students should be discriminated against by having Irish or not, in the basic admissions policy of most universities. It would actually help the language if you did have some opinion on it.

tipparetops · 31-05-2015 08:54PM

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Checks passport,

I'm Irish. Now answer the question.

You are Irish, yet you seem to have such a terrible attitude to our language.
Where did it go all wrong?

My answer to you,
I am proud to be Irish, and I show that pride by speaking the Irish language with as many people as I can.
I just wish others felt the same.

dissed doc · 31-05-2015 08:54PM

Knasher wrote: »

I've long been of the opinion that all languages but English are going to decline in the long term. It is the language of the internet and of most mass market entertainment, more and more people learn it as a second language, and unlike people with English as a primary language, they actually have cause to use it.

Actually, English is the one on the decline, especially in the area of the internet, and it has been for years now. English will be number 4, after Spanish, Mandarin and Arabic, within around 20 years. English is still the dominant language of the internet now, at around 50% of websites are in English. But, is has been steadily declining for years.

Bored_lad · 31-05-2015 08:54PM

Aineoil wrote: »

I don't have firm ideas about the Irish language - you either speak it or you don't.

One day I was speaking Irish to another work colleague because it was natural to do so, another work colleague heard us and asked us "to stop

raving".

This is the huge problem the language can't succeed and grow until people stop judging us for using it and trying to promote it.

Shep_Dog · 31-05-2015 08:56PM

tipparetops wrote: »

You should all start again with the language. give it another chance.

What's with 'the'? We have two languages or does English not count?

tipparetops wrote: »

It is in our blood,

Piffle, empty rhetoric.

tipparetops wrote: »

with 2016 celebrations coming up, what better way to show some patriotism.

There are many better ways, such as being real and in the present and honest about it being OK to be Irish and speaking English. Times have changed, The Catholic Church no longer controls the government, Gay marriage is even possible. Now, it's time to stand up to the language zealots.

Let's make it OK to say 'no' to Irish and celebrate what we are, and not what we were.

Iwasfrozen · 31-05-2015 08:56PM

tipparetops wrote: »

You are Irish, yet you seem to have such a terrible attitude to our language.
Where did it go all wrong?

My answer to you,
I am proud to be Irish, and I show that pride by speaking the Irish language with as many people as I can.
I just wish others felt the same.

It's not our language. Like most Irish people my language is English.

You can wish all you want but Ireland is an English speaking country and Ireland will remain an English speaking country.

I have no problem with people speaking Irish as long as they don't try to force it onto other people.

Grayson · 31-05-2015 08:56PM

Aineoil wrote: »

I'm just fed up of the crap about the language.

If you felt Peig murdered you - fine. (and you'd be ancient like me if you studied Peig)

If you hate Irish - fine.

If you like Irish - fine.

I really don't care.

Bad teaching of Irish? I could say the same of maths.

The teaching of maths in the 1970's was just awful.

It was all computation and no problem solving.

I've seen textbooks from the 70's they were all horrible. Maths included. But in the 80's and 90's the maths books were better. Irish was still the same. Same poems and same prose

ThinkProgress · 31-05-2015 08:56PM

tipparetops wrote: »

Sorry i was posting to Irish people, not people in general.

I'm Irish too, I'd like to know more about this patriotism you speak of? What's it like?

Since I speak almost no Irish, I've actually never experienced anything like that. :rolleyes:

tipparetops · 31-05-2015 08:57PM

Shrap wrote: »

'Tis a pity you don't have firm ideas on whether Irish students should be discriminated against by having Irish or not, in the basic admissions policy of most universities. It would actually help the language if you did have some opinion on it.

Being honest, if you cannot make some attempt at LC Irish, you really have to question are you ready for University.

Un Croissant · 31-05-2015 08:58PM

tipparetops wrote: »

Being honest, if you cannot make some attempt at LC Irish, you really have to question are you ready for University.

Oh no! You're the one I was worried about

tawnyowl · 31-05-2015 08:58PM

UCDVet wrote: »

I was absolutely amazed at how quickly and effectively my phone can translate languages. I went to France and I could record people talking in French, and read it in English, I could snap pictures of signs in French and see it in English, and I can type something in English and have it read aloud in French.

I can only imagine how much better it'll be in 10 years.

I just don't see any point in learning a second language these days.

The quality of the phone translation can vary. For instance, I tried translating "Bear with me" into French using Google Translate app and it became "Ours avec moi". That's a literal translation of a colloquialism.

ThinkProgress · 31-05-2015 08:59PM

dissed doc wrote: »

Actually, English is the one on the decline, especially in the area of the internet, and it has been for years now. English will be number 4, after Spanish, Mandarin and Arabic, within around 20 years. English is still the dominant language of the internet now, at around 50% of websites are in English. But, is has been steadily declining for years.

:eek: WOW! 4th place??

Where is Irish?

Iwasfrozen · 31-05-2015 08:59PM

dissed doc wrote: »

Actually, English is the one on the decline, especially in the area of the internet, and it has been for years now. English will be number 4, after Spanish, Mandarin and Arabic, within around 20 years. English is still the dominant language of the internet now, at around 50% of websites are in English. But, is has been steadily declining for years.

What makes you think it will decline? English has far more total speakers than Spanish or Arabic. The latter is barely even one language anymore.

Shrap · 31-05-2015 09:00PM

tipparetops wrote: »

Being honest, if you cannot make some attempt at LC Irish, you really have to question are you ready for University.

That's actually reportable, as you are basically calling me stupid (which I am quite patently not). I'm thinking you're seriously out of order in saying that. I shall henceforth ignore you, byes :pac:

Aineoil · 31-05-2015 09:00PM

Shrap wrote: »

Don't blame you and am hoping you don't blame me either. Am honestly an innocent party in the debacle the school system threw out, no better and no worse than any other, and certainly no less Irish by dint of not speaking or loving the language....although it feels like some would have it so.

Indeed I am as ancient as you so! I totally agree that you either like it or dislike it (Irish), and either way doesn't make you any more or less Irish than the other. However, the compulsory aspect, combined with the distinct advantages given to those who pass, cannot be construed as equal treatment in a country where virtually no Irish is spoken. Yes, the teaching of maths was awful, and I'm not in a position to comment on any improvement in the area, but at least not having maths doesn't rule you out of a whole University, whereas not having Irish can and does.

I agree with you. Compulsory Irish is just cracked. To need Irish to get into some universities is a bit cracked too.

My husband is a native speaker and I am fluent. Our

son can't string even the most basic sentence together in Irish.

4zn76tysfajdxp · 31-05-2015 09:01PM

tipparetops wrote: »

Sorry i was posting to Irish people, not people in general.

This is counter-productive. Using Irish for lording over people isn't right.

Reiver · 31-05-2015 09:01PM

Alice Gifted Zenith wrote: »

This is counter-productive. Using Irish for lording over people isn't right.

Agreed. It's meant to be inclusive.

tipparetops · 31-05-2015 09:02PM

ThinkProgress wrote: »

I'm Irish too, I'd like to know more about this patriotism you speak of? What's it like?

Since I speak almost no Irish, I've actually never experienced anything like that. :rolleyes:

Just having your name as Gaeilge puts a lump in your throat.

feargale · 31-05-2015 09:03PM

Shrap wrote: »

'Tis a pity you don't have firm ideas on whether Irish students should be discriminated against by having Irish or not, in the basic admissions policy of most universities. It would actually help the language if you did have some opinion on it.

This is unfair to Aineoil who has told a tale which illustrates to all save the blind that all the rudeness and intolerance attaching to this issue does not rest on one side. You should address that tale before smokescreening it by attempting to drag Aineoil into another issue which, to my knowledge, has not been touched on by Aineoil.

The Irish language is failing.

Comments