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As Christians how do people feel about David Quinn's response to yes vote?

  • 23-05-2015 02:29PM
    #1
    JohnBee
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 335 ✭✭JohnBee


    Not sure if people have heard David Quinn comment on the yes vote but just wondering how Christians feel?

    Basically his attitude was that they had an uphill battle, that their tactics failed and that they started their campaign too late.

    I found this very patronizing. It almost suggests that the outcome of the referendum, in his view, is that it represents the outcome of the best campaign. To me this is quite small minded of him. Why can he (and Iona) not just accept that this is a sign of the will of the people and that his views (and that of the mothers and fathers group) are minority views that are out of place in 2015?


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Comments

  • #2
    smokingman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,773 ✭✭✭smokingman


    I would be more curious to know what your average christian thinks of the other head of iona describing good people who were prominant catholics that voted yes, as some sort of monsters.


  • #3
    Manach
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 9,804 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manach


    Given the invective & demonisation hurl at Mr. Quinn by the tolerant classes of Ireland, it was hardly likely that any form of concession that did not involve a form of his auto-proskynesis would have been accepted. :rolleyes:
    The electoral defeat is likely to one of many such, with the anti-clericalism coming in to bloom as is the fashion, but just as the eve of Pentecost approaches, so to does the enduring message of the Church's message and that hopefully will continue to be heard.


  • #4
    katydid
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,351 ✭✭✭katydid


    JohnBee wrote: »
    Not sure if people have heard David Quinn comment on the yes vote but just wondering how Christians feel?

    Basically his attitude was that they had an uphill battle, that their tactics failed and that they started their campaign too late.

    I found this very patronizing. It almost suggests that the outcome of the referendum, in his view, is that it represents the outcome of the best campaign. To me this is quite small minded of him. Why can he (and Iona) not just accept that this is a sign of the will of the people and that his views (and that of the mothers and fathers group) are minority views that are out of place in 2015?
    Considering the amount of people involved in the NO side, they got more than their fair share of coverage in the media.


  • #5
    PopePalpatine
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,140 ✭✭✭✭PopePalpatine


    Manach wrote: »
    Given the invective & demonisation hurl at Mr. Quinn by the tolerant classes of Ireland, it was hardly likely that any form of concession that did not involve a form of his auto-proskynesis would have been accepted. :rolleyes:
    The electoral defeat is likely to one of many such, with the anti-clericalism coming in to bloom as is the fashion, but just as the eve of Pentecost approaches, so to does the enduring message of the Church's message and that hopefully will continue to be heard.

    His side gave as good as they got:
    CFYSHikWYAA-HQ3.jpg


  • #6
    galljga1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,938 ✭✭✭galljga1


    Manach wrote: »
    Given the invective & demonisation hurl at Mr. Quinn by the tolerant classes of Ireland, it was hardly likely that any form of concession that did not involve a form of his auto-proskynesis would have been accepted. :rolleyes:
    The electoral defeat is likely to one of many such, with the anti-clericalism coming in to bloom as is the fashion, but just as the eve of Pentecost approaches, so to does the enduring message of the Church's message and that hopefully will continue to be heard.

    David Quinn is poisonous and he and his ilk have used spurious and insulting arguments to derail every debate in which they have had representation. He should bow down and beg forgiveness for his blinkered, bigoted views.
    And yes, the country is in the process of lessening the church's influence on the day to day lives of those of us who have no interest in what they preach and rightly so.


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  • #7
    Manach
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 9,804 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manach


    galljga1 wrote: »
    David Quinn is poisonous and he and his ilk have used spurious and insulting arguments to derail every debate in which they have had representation. He should bow down and beg forgiveness for his blinkered, bigoted views.
    And yes, the country is in the process of lessening the church's influence on the day to day lives of those of us who have no interest in what they preach and rightly so.

    New Ireland: so forgiving and so sure of its moral superiority. What a brave new world that has such people in it.


  • #8
    Penny Tration
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,687 ✭✭✭✭Penny Tration


    Manach wrote: »
    New Ireland: so forgiving and so sure of its moral superiority. What a brave new world that has such people in it.

    So, rather than address what's in the posts you've responded to, you're just going to condescend to people?

    Okay then.


  • #9
    ziedth
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,081 ✭✭✭ziedth


    Manach wrote: »
    New Ireland: so forgiving and so sure of its moral superiority. What a brave new world that has such people in it.

    Makes a welcome change from the churches moral superiority to be honest


  • #10
    Manach
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 9,804 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manach


    Jenny Thalia wrote: »
    So, rather than address what's in the posts you've responded to, you're just going to condescend to people?

    Okay then.

    Seriously, really seriously. The bland and recycled cliches anti-clericism get a pass it is the opinions that diverge from the new norm (well the current one, I'm sure there is another one coming so if you do like it) that one gets to critique. So very surprised, or not.


  • #11
    galljga1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,938 ✭✭✭galljga1


    Manach wrote: »
    New Ireland: so forgiving and so sure of its moral superiority. What a brave new world that has such people in it.

    Yeah, bring back John Charles, all is forgiven. Lets start throwing young girls into slavery again and take their children to be dispensed to 'good' couples. How about raping children? Should we return to that?

    There is a lot to forgive "the church" for but until such time as they admit their sins and seek forgiveness, it will not be forthcoming from me.


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  • #12
    Manach
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 9,804 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manach


    ziedth wrote: »
    Makes a welcome change from the churches moral superiority to be honest

    Well, so long as one kowtows to whatever the prevailing orthodoxies (TBD) I'm sure one will get on fine.


  • #13
    galljga1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,938 ✭✭✭galljga1


    Manach wrote: »
    Well, so long as one kowtows to whatever the prevailing orthodoxies (TBD) I'm sure one will get on fine.

    The thing is, we have given up kautauing. We make up our own minds. It's kind of the modern thing to do.


  • #14
    Manach
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 9,804 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manach


    galljga1 wrote: »
    Yeah, bring back John Charles, all is forgiven. Lets start throwing young girls into slavery again and take their children to be dispensed to 'good' couples. How about raping children? Should we return to that?

    There is a lot to forgive "the church" for but until such time as they admit their sins and seek forgiveness, it will not be forthcoming from me.

    As opposed to the State's own crimes both here and other ones abroad which made the previous century such a joy to live through. Given the bankrupcy of the state at the time of its foundation and its nationistic posturing that squandered what remain of the monies, it was at to the credit of the Church that it provided some form of institualtion structure to preserve people. Both here and abroad for the immigrants that had to leave this country. Strangely this is never taken as a historical mea culpa from the anti-clericists, a strange case of annesia there especially in light of the numerous apologies given by Church members, in total and by individual members.


  • #15
    galljga1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,938 ✭✭✭galljga1


    Manach wrote: »
    As opposed to the State's own crimes both here and other ones abroad which made the previous century such a joy to live through. Given the bankrupcy of the state at the time of its foundation and its nationistic posturing that squandered what remain of the monies, it was at to the credit of the Church that it provided some form of institualtion structure to preserve people. Both here and abroad for the immigrants that had to leave this country. Strangely this is never taken as a historical mea culpa from the anti-clericists, a strange case of annesia there especially in light of the numerous apologies given by Church members, in total and by individual members.

    Blinkered nonsense.


  • #16
    Manach
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 9,804 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manach


    galljga1 wrote: »
    The thing is, we have given up kautauing. We make up our own minds. It's kind of the modern thing to do.

    Given the multiplicities of various competing lobbying groups that determine how public opinion is formed from both judiciation, executive and legislative levels (from my reading focusing on Jurisprudence) that statement is ether incredible naive or ironic.


  • #17
    PopePalpatine
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,140 ✭✭✭✭PopePalpatine


    By your logic, we should stop prosecuting abusive parents because they've put a roof over their children's heads and kept them fed and watered.


  • #18
    Manach
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 9,804 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manach


    galljga1 wrote: »
    Blinkered nonsense.

    Crushed by that fine retort. Surely the classic rheotorics of the groves of Athens would have hailed such sophistic mastery.


  • #19
    PopePalpatine
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,140 ✭✭✭✭PopePalpatine


    Manach wrote: »
    Crushed by that fine retort. Surely the classic rheotorics of the groves of Athens would have hailed such sophistic mastery.

    Remove the log from your own eye first.


  • #20
    galljga1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,938 ✭✭✭galljga1


    Manach wrote: »
    Given the multiplicities of various competing lobbying groups that determine how public opinion is formed from both judiciation, executive and legislative levels (from my reading focusing on Jurisprudence) that statement is ether incredible naive or ironic.

    It is good to get the opinion of someone so indoctrinated, s(he) cannot contemplate that maybe loosening the stranglehold of the church may just be a progressive step.


  • #21
    Not a NSA agent
    Closed Accounts Posts: 781 ✭✭✭Not a NSA agent


    PopePalpatine wrote: »
    His side gave as good as they got:
    CFYSHikWYAA-HQ3.jpg

    He cant look like the victim or blame it on "anti-clericism" so will be ignored.

    Im just thankful cultural marxism hasnt been brought in yet.


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  • #22
    ziedth
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,081 ✭✭✭ziedth


    Manach wrote: »
    Well, so long as one kowtows to whatever the prevailing orthodoxies (TBD) I'm sure one will get on fine.

    One will be just fine thanks,the prevailing orthodoxies at the very least don't have decades of covering up child abuse within thier own organisation and accumlating untold anounts of wealth. if the church ever does fall you can always follow the word of the BBC i guess


  • #23
    alias no.9
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,400 ✭✭✭alias no.9


    Manach wrote: »
    Well, so long as one kowtows to whatever the prevailing orthodoxies (TBD) I'm sure one will get on fine.

    So your main issue is that catholic dogma is no longer the prevailing orthodoxy?


  • #24
    galljga1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,938 ✭✭✭galljga1


    Manach wrote: »
    Crushed by that fine retort. Surely the classic rheotorics of the groves of Athens would have hailed such sophistic mastery.

    It was an appropriate response to the nonsense you spouted. Although I have been to Athens, it was in the recent past. Unlike you, I live in the now, not in ancient Greece. I doubt you would appreciate some of the practices Plato and his compatriots got up to.


  • #25
    eviltwin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    Manach wrote: »
    Crushed by that fine retort. Surely the classic rheotorics of the groves of Athens would have hailed such sophistic mastery.

    Nothing has changed for you. You are still free to go about your business as you were before yesterday. You're not a victim here. You would think if you can't be happy for gay people and their family you could at least have the good grace to accept the will of the people.


  • #26
    PopePalpatine
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,140 ✭✭✭✭PopePalpatine


    I don't think he'd be happy until this country turned into Franco's Spain with a crappier climate.


  • #27
    Manach
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 9,804 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manach


    galljga1 wrote: »
    It is good to get the opinion of someone so indoctrinated, s(he) cannot contemplate that maybe loosening the stranglehold of the church may just be a progressive step.
    Progressive means I presume moving in some definiable direction. However without any deseriable roadmap beyond a relativism recycled anti-clerical agenda we might regard the 40 years spend in the desert as a w/e break. At least until the social stresses of such progress to the breakdown of familial societal structures as happening in the UK.


  • #28
    PopePalpatine
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,140 ✭✭✭✭PopePalpatine


    Engaging in apologetics whenever pressed about what the RCC has inflicted on this country sounds a lot like "relativism" to me.


  • #29
    galljga1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,938 ✭✭✭galljga1


    Manach wrote: »
    Progressive means I presume moving in some definiable direction. However without any deseriable roadmap beyond a relativism recycled anti-clerical agenda we might regard the 40 years spend in the desert as a w/e break. At least until the social stresses of such progress to the breakdown of familial societal structures as happening in the UK.

    Why do you need a roadmap? You are here for a short time. Ask questions. Live life. Wear sunscreen.


  • #30
    uck51js9zml2yt
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,268 ✭✭✭✭uck51js9zml2yt


    PopePalpatine wrote: »
    His side gave as good as they got:
    CFYSHikWYAA-HQ3.jpg
    So we have a typed up document without any reference to its author attributed to david Quinn.


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  • #31
    Manach
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 9,804 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manach


    If you pardon me, I need now step out of this thread. Given the lack of the Church's power to shape Ireland over the past generation, perhaps there is a bright new dawn being hearld with this vote or perhaps Catholicism, where it once was the English, will continue be a convinient scapegoat for a the failure to reach the progressive paradise.


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