Same Sex Marriage Referendum Mega Thread - MOD WARNING IN FIRST POST

captbarnacles · 22-05-2015 11:48PM

Zen65 wrote: »

This is true.

However, as I have posted somewhere else before, this is simply second-hand homophobia, in the sense that the "tradition" which frames their view was itself a result of the majority's disdain for gay and lesbian practices. Not everybody who displays homophobic thinking actually has anti-LGBT sentiments. In effect they simply cling to the indoctrination of their youth.

And I've admitted here before that I can see my own homophobic inclinations, even as a committed YES voter. I am aware that I get a sense of unease if I am sharing a train carriage, or a restaurant, or a hotel bar, with a gay couple who are exhibiting public displays of affection towards each other. I tend to look away, to wish that maybe they could reserve "that sort of thing" for the privacy of their own homes or hotel rooms. I am well aware that such feelings are wrong on my part, but I am conditioned to feel them. I do not however blame the couple for my discomfort - the problem in that regard lies entirely with me.

As an important part of our community I wish my LGBT brothers and sisters the very best, and I hope to celebrate with them tomorrow when Ireland finally declares a new dawn of tolerance and inclusion.

I thought this too and was a little ashamed of it but then I thought that public displays of affection by a heterosexual couple (and i mean more than holding hands) make me equally uncomfortable.

efb · 22-05-2015 11:48PM

Cardinal Murphy O'Connor, stay classy

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/religion-and-beliefs/murphy-o-connor-admits-shame-over-1980s-sex-abuse-case-1.2222895

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/referendum/cardinal-in-britain-prays-for-irish-no-vote-in-marriage-referendum-31245755.html

endacl · 22-05-2015 11:49PM

SummerSummit wrote: »

There was a bible on the polling clerk's table in my voting station. Thought it was inappropriate.

It's an alternative firm if ID. A voter can affirm their identity. Can't be argued with.

Bit of an anachronism these days. Feck it. So are the pencils. I was a polling clerk/presiding officer for years. Used to just leave the bibblibook in the big brown envelope that the supplies came in. It just has to be available. Not on display.

LordSutch · 22-05-2015 11:49PM

K4t wrote: »

Except it's not. The No side's arguments (perpetuated by Iona, MAFM and the Church) stemmed from homophobia (well hidden admittedly), and these arguments caused enough confusion and raised enough doubt in people's minds that they voted no; Not because they themselves are homophobic, but because the arguments they believed might be true were covers for homophobia. It's quite simple to understand really.

Simple to understand?

Firstly, who are Iona and MAFM ? And which Church?

endacl · 22-05-2015 11:49PM

YFlyer wrote: »

Anybody spoil their vote?

I bought mine ice cream and some Lego.

Ave Sodalis · 22-05-2015 11:49PM

JamboMac wrote: »

But do you think either the staunchly yes or no voters read any of what was going to be changed. To me their seemed like a massive band wagon for the yes and everybody seemed to on it and if anybody who voted no from the voice of this thread they'll be crucified.

For its of homophobic nature why they voted no.

If you are staunchly yes or no voter the bigger picture is always not seen and maybe those of us who didn't vote ultimately didn't believe either side was right and if this had have been done a little different then more would have voted yes.

The reality is the majority over 60 more then likely voted no and they are the usual voters.
Let's say the majority of 18-30 year olds voted yes. Your swing vote will be the people in the middle.

As I said if it's a yes fair play, if it's a no, in 3 or 4 years it will be voted on again.

I'm open to any argument put before me and I would rather listen to them all. Which is why I'm still wondering what you meant by your first comment.

Cold War Kid · 22-05-2015 11:50PM

Ah jeez I wouldn't feel comfortable with any two people, whatever gender, mauling each other next to me on a train or wherever. Get a room loik. I don't think second-guessing oneself as being homophobic is necessary in relation to scenarios like that.

MathDebater · 22-05-2015 11:52PM

SafeSurfer wrote: »

I voted yes. But your reference to Obama is apt. His campaign slogan was "change" our campaign slogan was "equality" and equality doesn't end with the right to marry who you love regardless of sex. If the momentum could be kept going, this is a country we could all be proud of.

Abortion and the blasphemy laws need to be brought in line with the rest of W.E. What else is there?

darced · 22-05-2015 11:52PM

This post has been deleted.

endacl · 22-05-2015 11:52PM

mrkiscool2 wrote: »

It's over. All that's left is for all those sheets of democracy to be spread over the tables in each counting centre in Ireland and to be counted. I am extremely proud to have been a part of a momentous occasion and hopefully, at around 6pm tomorrow, we see that Ireland has not only passed same-sex marriage in one of the biggest ever turn-outs for a referendum, but that it has passed it by a massive margin. This is going to go down as one of the biggest days in Irish history, whatever way it goes

Ireland will (hopefully) by the first country to introduce same sex marriage by the will of the people. By referendum. All other examples were by legislation.

Nice one, us. Wasn't the gubbernmint. It was us.

Iwasfrozen · 22-05-2015 11:52PM

Zen65 wrote: »

This is true.

However, as I have posted somewhere else before, this is simply second-hand homophobia, in the sense that the "tradition" which frames their view was itself a result of the majority's disdain for gay and lesbian practices. Not everybody who displays homophobic thinking actually has anti-LGBT sentiments. In effect they simply cling to the indoctrination of their youth.

And I've admitted here before that I can see my own homophobic inclinations, even as a committed YES voter. I am aware that I get a sense of unease if I am sharing a train carriage, or a restaurant, or a hotel bar, with a gay couple who are exhibiting public displays of affection towards each other. I tend to look away, to wish that maybe they could reserve "that sort of thing" for the privacy of their own homes or hotel rooms. I am well aware that such feelings are wrong on my part, but I am conditioned to feel them. I do not however blame the couple for my discomfort - the problem in that regard lies entirely with me.

As an important part of our community I wish my LGBT brothers and sisters the very best, and I hope to celebrate with them tomorrow when Ireland finally declares a new dawn of tolerance and inclusion.

In fairness I'd feel that way about any couple. Gay or straight.

It's got nothing to do with conditioning it's just gross.

Cold War Kid · 22-05-2015 11:52PM

efb wrote: »

Cardinal Murphy O'Connor, stay classy

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/religion-and-beliefs/murphy-o-connor-admits-shame-over-1980s-sex-abuse-case-1.2222895

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/referendum/cardinal-in-britain-prays-for-irish-no-vote-in-marriage-referendum-31245755.html

Well he's a catholic cardinal so I'd be very surprised if he spoke in favour of a "yes" outcome. But his nonsense of "the greatest evil in our society" is the breakdown of the traditional family unit... lol, right after talking about child sexual abuse, and it's the *other* thing that's "the greatest evil"?!

PopePalpatine · 22-05-2015 11:52PM

RayM wrote: »

Repeal of the Eighth Amendment, hopefully. The final nail in the coffin of the religious right.

Eh, we've still got school patronage to sort out.

CaveCanem · 22-05-2015 11:53PM

K4t wrote: »

It's true though. The poster does not call the people homophobic, but rather that the beliefs and arguments opposing same sex marriage stem from homophobia. Especially true of Iona, MAFM and the Catholic Church, who created false arguments which confused many non-homophobic people into voting No or abstaining.

Was opposition to divorce also homophobic? The fact is conservatives hold marriage as a sacred value and that can be either from a secular or religious viewpoint. Much like some liberals see GMO and fast food as defiling their sacred values. Same sex marriage to them is like seeing Supersize Big Mac with Fries on the menu of your local organic fair trade non-GMO local artist supporting restaurant. It just makes it feel soiled and tarnished to have it there, regardless of the merits of changing it or who it affects.

They see the entire social structure as depending on it, it has been man and at least one woman with their biological children for thousands of years, who are we to say we suddenly know better?

The same opposition to divorce drove the opposition to this, marriage is not something you f€&@ with lightly and it is almost incomprehensible that you can alter it without altering the security of children.

I'm not asking you to agree with that point of view, I don't agree with it myself fully. But if people of your opinion don't even try to understand it we will end up like the U.S. Where both sides hate each other so much no decision, no matter how big or small ends up dead in the water as each side spends more time throwing mud than making things happen.

CiDeRmAn · 22-05-2015 11:53PM

darced wrote: »

Its not an election or anything mildly important to most people so plenty of people like myself just let those with a horse in the race decide.

I'm sure most gave it a bit of thought,probably more than a lot of people posting on facebook for likes,before coming to that conclusion.

This is a referendum to change the constitution of the country in which we live.
Sounds pretty important to me.
And you may not be aware of having a horse in the race right now but you just don't know when you might find someone you are close to relying upon such a ruling.
And it's for them and yourself that the referendum matters.

emo72 · 22-05-2015 11:53PM

Who won?

endacl · 22-05-2015 11:53PM

darced wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

It is between a man and a woman. Except where it's not. Man/woman marriages are still groovy though.

RoadhouseBlues · 22-05-2015 11:54PM

Hope no one minds me dipping my paw in here. I'm straight, but most people think I'm gay. So I don't know where I fit in here:-):-):-). I hope the Yes vote wins though. But I just wanted to say if ye don't mind. I've met bigots all through the years and I was just thinking. Even if the Yes vote wins, won't there still be bigots. Or what I'm trying to say is, the same bigots will still be bigots. Although as I'm typing this I'm thinking that it doesn't matter. Before ye get fed up of me, all the young people I was talking to seem to be really mature about this and are real positive about it. Maybe that's the difference between this generation and years ago. I hope that made some sense.

YFlyer · 22-05-2015 11:54PM

endacl wrote: »

I bought mine ice cream and some Lego.

A tutti frutti?

Alt J · 22-05-2015 11:55PM

Never voted till today, can I ask. Are all votes counted at your local polling station after it closes or are they sent too your countys one location where they are all counted etc ?

Bannasidhe · 22-05-2015 11:55PM

emo72 wrote: »

Who won?

Panti.

Breda was a no show.

yellowlabrador · 22-05-2015 11:56PM

I feel that this whole issue has divided the generations. The fact that bibles in the voting stations caused controversy says it all.
The no campaign made such an issue out of children, when logically, it should have been of the least importance. A gay or lesbian couple have to put so much more thought and effort into having children than hetrosexual couples. Maybe it would have been helpfull for the laws on adoption and surrogacy should have been tackled at the same time.
Any way I hope that the yes vote wins.

Bannasidhe · 22-05-2015 11:57PM

Alt J wrote: »

Never voted till today, can I ask. Are all votes counted at your local polling station after it closes or are they sent too your countys one location where they are all counted etc ?

Count centres - list is here:

http://www.referendum.ie/downloads/Count%20Centres.pdf

StewartGriffin · 22-05-2015 11:57PM

emo72 wrote: »

Who won?

Kermit, so he said.

Ave Sodalis · 22-05-2015 11:57PM

RoadhouseBlues wrote: »

Hope no one minds me dipping my paw in here. I'm straight, but most people think I'm gay. So I don't know where I fit in here:-):-):-). I hope the Yes vote wins though. But I just wanted to say if ye don't mind. I've met bigots all through the years and I was just thinking. Even if the Yes vote wins, won't there still be bigots. Or what I'm trying to say is, the same bigots will still be bigots. Although as I'm typing this I'm thinking that it doesn't matter. Before ye get fed up of me, all the young people I was talking to seem to be really mature about this and are real positive about it. Maybe that's the difference between this generation and years ago. I hope that made some sense.

There will be but the more normal sections of society become, the less they exist. They rarely die out though... there's still sexist people, there's still racist etc. Bigots exist everywhere, it'll just minimise their numbers by excluding those who don't like change or abnormal.

darced · 22-05-2015 11:57PM

This post has been deleted.

Not a NSA agent · 22-05-2015 11:57PM

Billy86 wrote: »

All this "there could be consequences and represcussions, even negative impacts that we don't know about yet since none of the other countries to introduce gay marriage yet have had them" comments are puzzling.

Surely then, by that logic, we should always vote to keep everything the same forever and ever, and indeed should have not introduced any changes ever either.

Theres your problem. If you try to follow through a lot of the no sides arguments using logic it wont make sense. e.g. procreation.

CaliforniaDream · 22-05-2015 11:57PM

I'm not able to vote as I no longer live in Ireland, but I'm glad to see our country getting the chance to vote on this.
If I could I'd vote yes and hope it goes that way tomorrow.
We say a lot about ourselves but ireland has come a long way and we're moving forward quite a bit. Since I've been born we've legalised divorce, homosexuality, some abortion laws (still a ways to go on that) and hopefully gay marriage tomorrow. We're fighting to change the hold the church had on us and it's amazing to see.
We're a lot more liberal and logical than we give ourselves credit for and I think it would be a great country to raise children in a few years.

So, as someone who cannot exercise my vote I'd like to thank everyone who did.

dublinman1990 · 22-05-2015 11:58PM

I voted yes for marriage equality and no to the presidential age referendum.

I also thought that hearing lots of people heading back to Ireland to vote in this referendum is absolutely heroic. I guess that the majority of those going back to Ireland are young people and do not conform to Catholic values any longer.

RTE News had said a few minutes ago on RTE One that the turnout in a lot of areas are reported to be over 70% which is great news to hear.

Just so you know there will be a exit poll result from Millward Browne Lansdowne and RTE which will be relayed on Morning Ireland on RTE Radio 1 from first thing in the morning to give a clear indication on where the marriage equality referendum will be heading.

YFlyer · 22-05-2015 11:58PM

RoadhouseBlues wrote: »

Hope no one minds me dipping my paw in here. I'm straight, but most people think I'm gay. So I don't know where I fit in here:-):-):-). I hope the Yes vote wins though. But I just wanted to say if ye don't mind. I've met bigots all through the years and I was just thinking. Even if the Yes vote wins, won't there still be bigots. Or what I'm trying to say is, the same bigots will still be bigots. Although as I'm typing this I'm thinking that it doesn't matter. Before ye get fed up of me, all the young people I was talking to seem to be really mature about this and are real positive about it. Maybe that's the difference between this generation and years ago. I hope that made some sense.

Yeah the knacker friends of hairdressers aren't as bigot as before.

Same Sex Marriage Referendum Mega Thread - MOD WARNING IN FIRST POST

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