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Same Sex Marriage Referendum Mega Thread - MOD WARNING IN FIRST POST

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Comments

  • #6392
    floggg
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,821 ✭✭✭floggg


    Kiwi in IE wrote: »
    Would you agree that Okapis, which appear to be the result of an unholy union between a giraffe and a zebra, are an abomination?

    Okapis are beautiful in their way
    'Cause God makes no mistakes
    They're on the right track, baby
    Okapis were born that way


  • #6393
    seamus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,173 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    MessiHutz wrote: »
    I'm concerned about individuals and their right to hold their beliefs.
    How would that be impacted?


  • #6394
    eviltwin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    MessiHutz wrote: »
    Not in legal terms but in reality it will ,anyone who has cited religious beliefs as their reason for voting no just gets accused of homophobia. How can you say there will be no impact on religious beliefs after looking at the Ashers case, yeah different state blah blah but I guarantee that kind of stuff will start happening here.
    As I've said before I don't care that Priests won't be forced to marry gay couples. Most of the leadership of religious organisations are bastards anyway so I don't care what they are forced to do. I'm concerned about individuals and their right to hold their beliefs.

    Churches are legally exempt from legislation that a private business wouldn't be. They already deny marriage to divorced people, have done for years, they can just add gay couples to the list.


  • #6395
    Bannasidhe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,218 ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    seamus wrote: »
    How would that be impacted?

    They wouldn't be able to use their religious views as a 'you may discriminate' free pass?


  • #6396
    floggg
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,821 ✭✭✭floggg


    MessiHutz wrote: »
    Not in legal terms but in reality it will ,anyone who has cited religious beliefs as their reason for voting no just gets accused of homophobia. How can you say there will be no impact on religious beliefs after looking at the Ashers case, yeah different state blah blah but I guarantee that kind of stuff will start happening here.
    As I've said before I don't care that Priests won't be forced to marry gay couples. Most of the leadership of religious organisations are bastards anyway so I don't care what they are forced to do. I'm concerned about individuals and their right to hold their beliefs.

    Sigh.

    Northern Ireland doesn't have gay marriage.

    So clearly that case had nothing to do with this referendum.

    People can hold whatever believes they want. They cannot discriminate though - which is the case regardless of the outcome of the referendum. We already have equality law. Our equality law already prevents you discriminating on grounds of sexual orientation, family status, or gender.

    That's not changing regardless of the result.


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  • #6397
    MessiHutz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 72 ✭✭MessiHutz


    seamus wrote: »
    How would that be impacted?

    Just said Seamus. Shouted down as homophobes during the campaign? Forced into making political cakes that go against their beliefs? (In North I know but if it was down here would be same result most likely) And it's only going to get worse


  • #6398
    galljga1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,937 ✭✭✭galljga1


    seamus wrote: »
    How would that be impacted?

    Some of them may have to hide some of their beliefs in case some people might think they were mad, Ted.
    Pretty much the same as today, as the referendum will have no impact.


  • #6399
    MessiHutz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 72 ✭✭MessiHutz


    eviltwin wrote: »
    Churches are legally exempt from legislation that a private business wouldn't be. They already deny marriage to divorced people, have done for years, they can just add gay couples to the list.

    Read my post again


  • #6400
    jobbridge4life
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,759 ✭✭✭jobbridge4life


    MessiHutz wrote: »
    Just said Seamus. Shouted down as homophobes during the campaign? Forced into making political cakes that go against their beliefs? (In North I know but if it was down here would be same result most likely) And it's only going to get worse

    Political cakes? You think its an affront to make a cake but you think its okay to keep thousands of your fellow countrymen, women and children as second class citizens... How can you deal with the hypocrisy of that?


  • #6401
    Kiwi in IE
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,063 ✭✭✭Kiwi in IE


    MessiHutz wrote: »
    I'm concerned about individuals and their right to hold their beliefs.

    How is allowing LGBT couples to marry going to impact on anyones right to hold their beliefs? Please explain?


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  • #6402
    SafeSurfer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,398 ✭✭✭SafeSurfer


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    Seriously - so what?

    As long as it is involving consenting adults and the child is loved and well cared for what the fúck does it matter how the child was conceived or gestated?

    Jayzus - given the number of children who are 'accident's' or brought into this world by people who really don't want them you'd think the moral guardians with their much vaunted concern would be off policing uncontrolled heterosexual reproduction but on the contrary the very same people are against contraception

    The leaders of the No campaign have said over and over and over again during abortion debates it doesn't matter if a child is conceived through rape it is still a child so why does it matter so much if a consenting adult offers his sperm or a her womb?

    Gay people do not have children on a whim. They do not have accidents. They do not have unwanted children.

    You'd think wanting and planning and preparing for a child was a crime against humanity the way some people are banging on about it.

    So you have no problem with, for example poor, illiterate Indian women being implanted with a fertilised egg to carry for a wealthy western couple, of whatever sexual preference?

    Is there any potential for exploitation in this arrangement?

    Is it ok for couples who can conceive to rent surrogate wombs to avoid stretch marks?

    You say it's ok for consenting adults to offer their womb? Even if that consent is given for money?
    Is prostitution ok because it is a business arrangement in which consent is purchased?
    If the child born is handicapped is it a breach of contract and it's ok to return the child to the woman who gave birth to it?

    "So what" just doesn't cut it.

    Multo autem ad rem magis pertinet quallis tibi vide aris quam allis



  • #6403
    floggg
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,821 ✭✭✭floggg


    MessiHutz wrote: »
    Just said Seamus. Shouted down as homophobes during the campaign? Forced into making political cakes that go against their beliefs? (In North I know but if it was down here would be same result most likely) And it's only going to get worse

    Who exactly has been shouted down?

    The catholic church has participated in many of the debates. It also spoke freely about it in the churches.

    We also have religious posters up in many places telling me and those like me that I am sinful and against god's will.

    We also have some delightful churchs handing out some pretty horrific and offensive flyers and leaflets.

    So who has been shouted down or silenced? Who has been bullied?

    it certainly hasn't been the religious.


  • #6404
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 1,100 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    jobbridge4life wrote: »
    Political cakes? You think its an affront to make a cake but you think its okay to keep thousands of your fellow countrymen, women and children as second class citizens... How can you deal with the hypocrisy of that?

    Did ya not get the memo, it's open season on Christians ;)


  • #6405
    jobbridge4life
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,759 ✭✭✭jobbridge4life


    SafeSurfer wrote: »
    So you have no problem with, for example poor, illiterate Indian women being implanted with a fertilised egg to carry for a wealthy western couple, of whatever sexual preference?

    Is there any potential for exploitation in this arrangement?

    Is it ok for couples who can conceive to rent surrogate wombs to avoid stretch marks?

    You say it's ok for consenting adults to offer their womb? Even if that consent is given for money?
    Is prostitution ok because it is a business arrangement in which consent is purchased?
    If the child born is handicapped is it a breach of contract and it's ok to return the child to the woman who gave birth to it?

    "So what" just doesn't cut it.

    Why are you posting this in a thread that has nothing to do with surrogacy? Why are you continuing to attempt to derail any discussion about this referendum?


  • #6406
    SafeSurfer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,398 ✭✭✭SafeSurfer


    Kiwi in IE wrote: »
    Would you agree that Okapis, which appear to be the result of an unholy union between a giraffe and a zebra, are an abomination?

    As the zebra said to the giraffe "you have some neck".

    Multo autem ad rem magis pertinet quallis tibi vide aris quam allis



  • #6407
    jobbridge4life
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,759 ✭✭✭jobbridge4life


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Did ya not get the memo, it's open season on Christians ;)

    I'm a Christian and the only attack I see is on my right to get married. thanks for the support.


  • #6408
    Fat Christy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,866 ✭✭✭Fat Christy


    SafeSurfer wrote: »
    So you have no problem with, for example poor, illiterate Indian women being implanted with a fertilised egg to carry for a wealthy western couple, of whatever sexual preference?

    Is there any potential for exploitation in this arrangement?

    Is it ok for couples who can conceive to rent surrogate wombs to avoid stretch marks?

    You say it's ok for consenting adults to offer their womb? Even if that consent is given for money?
    Is prostitution ok because it is a business arrangement in which consent is purchased?
    If the child born is handicapped is it a breach of contract and it's ok to return the child to the woman who gave birth to it?

    "So what" just doesn't cut it.

    I'm very confused, this referendum is about same sex marriage not about surrogacy.


  • #6409
    galljga1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,937 ✭✭✭galljga1


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Did ya not get the memo, it's open season on Christians ;)

    To be honest, I am with the lions.
    First one in the den is David Quinn.


  • #6410
    cloud493
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,835 ✭✭✭✭cloud493


    It is possible to be a christian and support same sex marriage. Like me :)


  • #6411
    SafeSurfer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,398 ✭✭✭SafeSurfer


    jobbridge4life wrote: »
    Why are you posting this in a thread that has nothing to do with surrogacy? Why are you continuing to attempt to derail any discussion about this referendum?

    Is surrogacy featuring in the discussion in the general public, in the media?
    Why should it be forbidden from mention here?

    Who will set the parameters for what can and cannot be discussed?

    Multo autem ad rem magis pertinet quallis tibi vide aris quam allis



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  • #6412
    MessiHutz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 72 ✭✭MessiHutz


    Kiwi in IE wrote: »
    How is allowing LGBT couples to marry going to impact on anyones right to hold their beliefs? Please explain?

    It's not really the result, it's the campaign where religious people have been demonised for holding their beliefs. I suppose it would be unfair of me to take that out on gay people


  • #6413
    Kiwi in IE
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,063 ✭✭✭Kiwi in IE


    Fat Christy wrote: »
    I'm very confused

    Well you can take comfort in the knowledge that you are far from alone there!


  • #6414
    SafeSurfer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,398 ✭✭✭SafeSurfer


    Fat Christy wrote: »
    I'm very confused, this referendum is about same sex marriage not about surrogacy.

    You are right. Surrogacy arises in the discussion because couples of the same sex cannot conceive children. Ergo in order to have children some other route must be found ergo discussion of surrogacy and adoption in this debate.

    Multo autem ad rem magis pertinet quallis tibi vide aris quam allis



  • #6415
    seamus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,173 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    MessiHutz wrote: »
    Just said Seamus. Shouted down as homophobes during the campaign?
    So person A is allowed to express an opinion, but person B is not allowed to express an opinion about their opinion?
    Forced into making political cakes that go against their beliefs?
    No, just required to treat people equally and not refuse them business on the basis of sexuality. That seems fair doesn't it?

    Besides, what has any of this got to do with the referendum? Are you trying to invoke some bizarre slippery slope argument?


  • #6416
    MessiHutz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 72 ✭✭MessiHutz


    floggg wrote: »
    Who exactly has been shouted down?

    The catholic church has participated in many of the debates. It also spoke freely about it in the churches.

    We also have religious posters up in many places telling me and those like me that I am sinful and against god's will.

    We also have some delightful churchs handing out some pretty horrific and offensive flyers and leaflets.

    So who has been shouted down or silenced? Who has been bullied?

    it certainly hasn't been the religious.


    Are you honestly suggesting that people who disagree with gay marriage on religious grounds haven't been called homophobic because that is nonsense and you know it.


  • #6417
    seamus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,173 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    SafeSurfer wrote: »
    You are right. Surrogacy arises in the discussion because couples of the same sex cannot conceive children. Ergo in order to have children some other route must be found ergo discussion of surrogacy and adoption in this debate.
    Except we're not debating homosexuality. Homosexual couples exist and already have children. SSM does not change that.


  • #6418
    galljga1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,937 ✭✭✭galljga1


    cloud493 wrote: »
    It is possible to be a christian and support same sex marriage. Like me :)

    Absolutely. The true Christian thing to do is to vote yes. I cannot see Christ having a problem with two people loving each other and committing their lives to each other in marriage.


  • #6419
    Fat Christy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,866 ✭✭✭Fat Christy


    SafeSurfer wrote: »
    You are right. Surrogacy arises in the discussion because couples of the same sex cannot conceive children. Ergo in order to have children some other route must be found ergo discussion of surrogacy and adoption in this debate.

    As far as I'm aware, surrogacy in Ireland is not legal. Plus not all couples who marry have children.

    This is about marriage, Ergo.


  • #6420
    jooksavage
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,545 ✭✭✭jooksavage


    cloud493 wrote: »
    It is possible to be a christian and support same sex marriage. Like me :)

    Indeed. It's possible to be an 81 year old farmer who says his rosary before bed every night and also support gay marriage, like my father.


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  • #6421
    Knasher
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,370 ✭✭✭Knasher


    MessiHutz wrote: »
    How can you say there will be no impact on religious beliefs after looking at the Ashers case, yeah different state blah blah but I guarantee that kind of stuff will start happening here.
    I'm concerned about individuals and their right to hold their beliefs.
    Gay marriage isn't legal in NI. Equality law, which they violated, exists regardless of the outcome of the referendum. We have, and will continue to have, similar laws.

    What that case was about whether having a religious belief should exempt you from having to comply with the law. Frankly that would have been a crazy bit of legal precedent to establish, it was ridiculous when they established it in America, and it would be down right negligent if they established it in NI.


This discussion has been closed.
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