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Same Sex Marriage Referendum Mega Thread - MOD WARNING IN FIRST POST

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Comments

  • #4682
    molloyjh
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,767 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    Ironé wrote: »
    Great question - and I would be interested to here the response from a No voter.

    Further to this how exactly do they envision surrogacy being a right that has to be granted to gay men? Would it be enshrined in law that they would be given use of their choice of woman of child bearing age?

    Just on this, Lawyers For Yes produced this video on the issue of surrogacy explaining why it is irrelevant.

    https://vimeo.com/128086456


  • #4683
    Kiwi in IE
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,063 ✭✭✭Kiwi in IE


    Shrap wrote: »
    In first class, I told everyone in my school that I was going to marry Nicky (male) when we got older. I didn't have a notion how babies were made, but I knew I liked him. 1st class = 6 years old.

    Yeah I would have been close to the same age, kids are a bit older starting school in NZ. I wanted to marry this boy too (Marc), didn't have a clue about anything either, only that I liked him. There is a junior infant girl who has a crush on my boy who's a senior infant. He was the only boy invited to her birthday party and her mum whispered to me 'I think she has a bit of a crush'. It's normal! It has a lot to do with sexuality but nothing to do with sexual activity!


  • #4684
    LookingFor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,682 ✭✭✭LookingFor


    Kiwi in IE wrote: »
    I listened to Jim Walsh and Breda O'Brien rant on during The Last Word on Today FM about how normalising LGBT relationships in schools is 'sexualising children'. Can you explain to me how the above equates to sexualising my child, or even what could possibly be considered wrong with it?

    They cannot think of homosexuality as anything but the sexual act. It's diminishing of gay people, they know it, and they use it. There's nothing wrong with 'the sex', but it's only one part of a big puzzle, and a completely irrelevant (and inappropriate one) to be discussing with children.

    I have always thought of my sexuality as, more than anything else, being about who I fall in love with. That's a far more important part of my life than 'the sex', and will be for far longer in my life.

    And that's the bit you should talk to your kids about - love, partnership, companionship. All things that, I guess, don't exist in the Breda O'Brien, Jim Walsh view of gay relationships.

    Again, it's another 'mask slip' moment, IMO. They can claim to respect gay people and gay relationships all they like, but stuff like this tells a different story.


  • #4685
    Shrap
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,163 ✭✭✭Shrap


    RobertKK wrote: »
    There is nothing to more to add.
    If you say so.
    RobertKK wrote: »
    Are you really going to claim you wanted to have homosexual sex at five years of age?
    I can believe curiosity at that age. I don't believe you wanted to have sex at 5 years of age.

    For the record though, it was you, wasn't it...who mentioned wanting to have homosexual sex at 5 yrs of age? Nobody else previous to this quote? No?

    Ok. Nothing more to add.


  • #4686
    Ironé
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 260 ✭✭Ironé


    LookingFor wrote: »
    They cannot think of homosexuality as anything but the sexual act. It's diminishing of gay people, they know it, and they use it. There's nothing wrong with 'the sex', but it's only one part of a big puzzle, and a completely irrelevant (and inappropriate one) to be discussing with children.

    I have always thought of my sexuality as, more than anything else, being about who I fall in love with. That's a far more important part of my life than 'the sex', and will be for far longer in my life.

    And that's the bit you should talk to your kids about - love, partnership, companionship. All things that, I guess, don't exist in the Breda O'Brien, Jim Walsh view of gay relationships.

    This is what it all boils down to - these types of people cannot understand how someone could be attracted to someone of the same sex. The only way they can make any sense of it is that it is purely physical. They cannot understand that it is exactly the same as heterosexual relationships.


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  • #4687
    Kiwi in IE
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,063 ✭✭✭Kiwi in IE


    Ironé wrote: »
    I must get that book. It's the same as the where do babies come from conversation. There is an age appropriate way to explain these things. I want my kids to grow up not having hang ups with their sexuality. I have a very close gay friend, and he is in the house a good bit with his boyfriend. My kids know that's normal and my eldest, who is 5, knows that they are together. You'd be surprised t how cool kids are with this sort of thing.

    It's a nice story, cute pictures, easy to read (rhymes). We didn't buy it for that reason, Little Kiwi liked the Gruffalo, so it was bought for him because of the author. I don't even know if Prunella and Pat are supposed to be gay, but they are now in our house anyway!


  • #4688
    Bannasidhe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,218 ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    Kiwi in IE wrote: »
    It's a nice story, cute pictures, easy to read (rhymes). We didn't buy it for that reason, Little Kiwi liked the Gruffalo, so it was brought for him because of the author. I don't even know if Prunella and Pat are supposed to be gay, but they are now in our house anyway!

    Ohhh... the grandkids love the Gruffalo and have a couple of other books by same author. Must get them this one.


  • #4689
    jobbridge4life
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,759 ✭✭✭jobbridge4life


    RobertKK wrote: »
    Oh please....



    It was not my suggestion, it was the the comment about being a criminal at 5 years of age because one is homosexual, which was incorrect before homosexual acts was decriminalised.
    Prurience is not a word I use, so will thank marienbad for that, I googled the word, and it said lustful, desires, so adding the word unsavoury to it and given what was being discussed...

    There is nothing to more to add.

    There is so much to add Robert. You could apologise for suggesting that I said I wanted anal sex as a five year old. You could apologise for telling me and by extension all LGBT people what they felt and when they felt it. You could apologise for diminishing the fact that until I was five years of age homosexuality* was criminalised. You could apologise for demeaning the experience of all those who grew up (and I mean alot more than my five years) since the 70s the period you mentioned.

    Robert we only want to be your equal and if I had my way your friend. Why is that so abhorrent to you?

    *criminalising the act which defines the person is in essence criminalising the person


  • #4690
    Kiwi in IE
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,063 ✭✭✭Kiwi in IE


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    Any 6 year old?

    My will be 6 next week grandson mentioned it to me, asked it I was going to marry my OH and asked could he wear a suit like Matt Smiths Dr if I do. The only nose scrunching was at the suggestion he might wear a tie rather than a dickie bow.

    My six year old asked me why I was wearing the badge and I told him. Why should this subject be kept secret from children or deemed inappropriate? Does anyone keep their children away from heterosexual weddings because it's inappropriate to talk about relationships and marriages with them?


  • #4691
    molloyjh
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,767 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    Kiwi in IE wrote: »
    It's a nice story, cute pictures, easy to read (rhymes). We didn't buy it for that reason, Little Kiwi liked the Gruffalo, so it was bought for him because of the author. I don't even know if Prunella and Pat are supposed to be gay, but they are now in our house anyway!

    We all grew up with that kind of thing I think....

    Bert-and-Ernie.jpg


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  • #4692
    road_high
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,898 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    Shrap wrote: »
    If you say so.


    For the record though, it was you, wasn't it...who mentioned wanting to have homosexual sex at 5 yrs of age? Nobody else previous to this quote? No?

    Ok. Nothing more to add.

    It fascinates me how certain posters on a certain side bring everything back to sex and sexual acts. It's says it all.
    Been the case for generations with any debate involving homosexuality.


  • #4693
    Kiwi in IE
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,063 ✭✭✭Kiwi in IE


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    Ohhh... the grandkids love the Gruffalo and have a couple of other books by same author. Must get them this one.

    Tabby McTat. Same author and illustrator as Gruffalo :)


  • #4694
    To Elland Back
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,923 ✭✭✭To Elland Back


    Is there anyone as concerned as me that there are a vast number of young people who won't be voting this Friday because they are away from their registered polling station because of college or work? Also, because of the disenchantment many young people have in our politicians, they just never registered.

    I believe the vast majority of people will want this referendum passed, but will the required numbers cast a vote? I'm genuinely worried.


  • #4695
    joe40
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,813 ✭✭✭joe40


    I have two kids boy aged 9 and girl aged 11. I have never deliberately avoided the topic of homsexuality or same sex relationship but it never came up and i never thought about discussing it with them.

    I am actually glad now that since the posters were up we have been talking about the referendum and how sometimes two men want to be married or two women. They can accept the idea no problem. it is also easy to discuss this topic in an appropriate way with children in the same way as any other relationships can be discussed.


  • #4696
    LookingFor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,682 ✭✭✭LookingFor


    To Elland Back wrote: »
    Is there anyone as concerned as me that there are a vast number of young people who won't be voting this Friday because they are away from their registered polling station because of college or work? Also, because of the disenchantment many young people have in our politicians, they just never registered.

    I believe the vast majority of people will want this referendum passed, but will the required numbers cast a vote? I'm genuinely worried.

    Remembering my college days, there was basically nothing happening on Fridays, a lot of people didn't even turn up. Loads of folks from the country would head home on Thursday evening.

    Dunno if that was just my college, though.

    In terms of interest, there have apparently been large voter registration drives at colleges in the run up to this. Not sure if we have firm figures on students alone, but over 60k people were added to the supplementary register.

    I've seen a 'VoterMotor' campaign that is aimed, partially, at helping people get to their polling booth on Friday. Not sure how well organised it is, but people are definitely thinking about things like this.


  • #4697
    jobbridge4life
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,759 ✭✭✭jobbridge4life


    joe40 wrote: »
    I have two kids boy aged 9 and girl aged 11. I have never deliberately avoided the topic of homsexuality or same sex relationship but it never came up and i never thought about discussing it with them.

    I am actually glad now that since the posters were up we have been talking about the referendum and how sometimes two men want to be married or two women. They can accept the idea no problem. it is also easy to discuss this topic in an appropriate way with children in the same way as any other relationships can be discussed.

    And how I wish you had been my Father. Not that mine was bad but he just wouldn't have been as comfortable with the topic as you. If he had been our relationship could have been a thousand times more positive.

    You Sir are credit to your parents and boon to your children. Thank you.


  • #4698
    Shrap
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,163 ✭✭✭Shrap


    Kiwi in IE wrote: »
    It's a nice story, cute pictures, easy to read (rhymes). We didn't buy it for that reason, Little Kiwi liked the Gruffalo, so it was bought for him because of the author. I don't even know if Prunella and Pat are supposed to be gay, but they are now in our house anyway!
    Kiwi in IE wrote: »
    Tabby McTat. Same author and illustrator as Gruffalo :)

    Oooh, the Gruffalo was so good. And Room on the Broom. Pity I missed the Tabby McTatt one, kids gone too big :(


  • #4699
    c_man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,436 ✭✭✭c_man


    joe40 wrote: »
    it is also easy to discuss this topic in an appropriate way with children in the same way as any other relationships can be discussed.

    There's a lot to be said for the way my generation were educated in such matters. Late night Channel 4 broadened the mind.


  • #4700
    matrim
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,516 ✭✭✭matrim


    To Elland Back wrote: »
    Is there anyone as concerned as me that there are a vast number of young people who won't be voting this Friday because they are away from their registered polling station because of college or work? Also, because of the disenchantment many young people have in our politicians, they just never registered.

    I believe the vast majority of people will want this referendum passed, but will the required numbers cast a vote? I'm genuinely worried.

    Given how much publicity student unions (and others) have put into getting people to register, if you are unable to vote because you aren't registered, or are registered in an area you don't live (e.g. live in Dublin but registered in Laois), it's pretty much your own fault if you can't vote.


  • #4701
    joe40
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,813 ✭✭✭joe40


    c_man wrote: »
    There's a lot to be said for the way my generation were educated in such matters. Late night Channel 4 broadened the mind.

    They used to have a little triangle on the screen as a warning. i'm really showing my age now


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  • #4702
    road_high
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,898 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    matrim wrote: »
    Given how much publicity student unions (and others) have put into getting people to register, if you are unable to vote because you aren't registered, or are registered in an area you don't live (e.g. live in Dublin but registered in Laois), it's pretty much your own fault if you can't vote.

    A lot will make the effort though. Many for the first time.
    I think the college term is over for a lot of them now anyhow....


  • #4703
    Bannasidhe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,218 ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    joe40 wrote: »
    They used to have a little triangle on the screen as a warning. i'm really showing my age now

    I remember that - it was the signal to record it. Think I still have those video tapes in the attic. :D


  • #4704
    SafeSurfer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,398 ✭✭✭SafeSurfer


    jobbridge4life wrote: »
    There is so much to add Robert. You could apologise for suggesting that I said I wanted anal sex as a five year old. You could apologise for telling me and by extension all LGBT people what they felt and when they felt it. You could apologise for diminishing the fact that until I was five years of age homosexuality* was criminalised. You could apologise for demeaning the experience of all those who grew up (and I mean alot more than my five years) since the 70s the period you mentioned.



    *criminalising the act which defines the person is in essence criminalising the person

    I am truly sorry that you experienced feelings of intolerance growing up. However I am surprised that you say you are defined by the act of anal sex. I may be misinterpreting what you mean but it seems to me to be a very narrow definition of a human being. Sex is important to most people but can the sexual act, whatever it may be, truly define us as people?

    Multo autem ad rem magis pertinet quallis tibi vide aris quam allis



  • #4705
    Not a NSA agent
    Closed Accounts Posts: 781 ✭✭✭Not a NSA agent


    SafeSurfer wrote: »
    I am truly sorry that you experienced feelings of intolerance growing up. However I am surprised that you say you are defined by the act of anal sex. I may be misinterpreting what you mean but it seems to me to be a very narrow definition of a human being. Sex is important to most people but can the sexual act, whatever it may be, truly define us as people?

    According to the no campaign it does. By being gay you become a lesser parent, attempting to bring down society and a bad influence on their children.


  • #4706
    K4t
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,362 ✭✭✭K4t


    SafeSurfer wrote: »
    I am truly sorry that you experienced feelings of intolerance growing up. However I am surprised that you say you are defined by the act of anal sex. I may be misinterpreting what you mean but it seems to me to be a very narrow definition of a human being. Sex is important to most people but can the sexual act, whatever it may be, truly define us as people?
    If vaginal sex was a criminalised act, do you not think it might just slightly affect heterosexuals? Oh wait no, vaginal sex between a man and a woman is natural and unavoidable, while anal sex is only the way in which homosexuals choose to express their love right? Why can't they just stick to blowjobs and handjobs goddamit!


  • #4707
    G_R
    Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 5,028 Mod ✭✭✭✭G_R


    K4t wrote: »
    If vaginal sex was a criminalised act, do you not think it might just slightly affect heterosexuals? Oh wait no, vaginal sex between a man and a woman is natural and unavoidable, while anal sex is only the way in which homosexuals choose to express their love right? Why can't they just stick to blowjobs and handjobs goddamit!

    Lets not go down this route please


  • #4708
    aloyisious
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,165 ✭✭✭✭aloyisious


    I'm watching Claire Byrne Live out of the corner of my eye and listening to the SC appearing for the No Side. I think I just heard him say, in his opening sentence, that same sex marriages would be pretence. If I'm right, then he's clearly a high-thinking person, one with his head in the clouds.


  • #4709
    walkingshadow
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 369 ✭✭walkingshadow


    aloyisious wrote: »
    I'm watching Claire Byrne Live out of the corner of my eye and listening to the SC appearing for the No Side. I think I just heard him say, in his opening sentence, that same sex marriages would be pretence. If I'm right, then he's clearly a high-thinking person, one with his head in the clouds.

    Is there a yes supporter on for balance?


  • #4710
    The_Minister
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,255 ✭✭✭✭The_Minister


    Lad on my Facebook just put up a 'sorry, I've thought about it a lot, I'm voting No because of my faith, no hard feelings' post and is getting just awful, awful personal abuse. Real venomous, bileful dog-pile stuff.

    No matter how many prats are on my side, I'm still leaning towards a Yes, but people need to realise that that stuff isn't helpful.


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  • #4711
    Bannasidhe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,218 ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    The_Minister wrote: »
    Lad on my Facebook just put up a 'sorry, I've thought about it a lot, I'm voting No because of my faith, no hard feelings' post and is getting just awful, awful personal abuse. Real venomous, bileful dog-pile stuff.

    No matter how many prats are on my side, I'm still leaning towards a Yes, but people need to realise that that stuff isn't helpful.

    No. It isn't.


This discussion has been closed.
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