Same Sex Marriage Referendum Mega Thread - MOD WARNING IN FIRST POST

Bannasidhe · 18-05-2015 10:05AM

silverfeather wrote: »

They are also a private limited company they became Lolek Ltd and incorporated in 2006.

Perhaps someone with access to solocheck could see if they filed returns...my subscription expired.

There does seem to be a veil of mystery surrounding where the funds for all those posters and you tube ads and newpapers ads came from..

I am sure some would say that Iona Inc wouldn't be so foolish as to call into question the funding of the Yes Campaign if they had something to hide but these are the very people who are now claiming Civil Partnership is the best thing for gays since it homosexuality stopped being a crime yet they fought tooth and nail against it..
These are the very people who state a mother is just for 9 months but say to pregnant rape victims if they are that upset they can give their child up for adoption...
These are the people who care so much for children that one of their main spokesmen was an adviser to a member of the RCC hierarchy who was covering up child abuse...

The rules don't apply to Iona apparently as they are too busy policing everyone else.

floggg · 18-05-2015 10:07AM

tomwaterford wrote: »

It won't....it'll fly through,,...this no vote thing is being blown out of all proportion imho

I honestly haven't meet anyone (in real life) promoting a no vote!!(I live in backarse of nowhere)

I wish that was the case - but it won't be.

While the No vote may be in the minority, they will most definitely all vote. So unless Yes voters actually show up on the day in huge numbers, this will be close and may very well be lost.

Every Yes voter needs to get to a polling station on Friday. Otherwise, the vocal minority will earn an undeserved and unrepresentative victory.

RobertKK · 18-05-2015 10:10AM

TheBeardedLady wrote: »

Same sex marriage is legal in Spain. Very open towards homosexuality here and they would find it extremely backwards if this didn't pass. I'd feel deeply ashamed as I said before.

It is legal in Spain and other countries where the people didn't decide via a referendum.
California voted against it, but had it imposed on them, which is far more shameful as it ignored the people.
One could argue these countries and states with same sex mariage, have been afraid of the people., or ignored the people if they voted against as in California.

floggg · 18-05-2015 10:10AM

TheBeardedLady wrote: »

Tom I'm not so confident anymore. I know 2 people voting NO who I didn't expect would. I really hope you're right. I know it's not logical to feel shame for other people's decisions but that's how I'll feel nonetheless. Harsh as it sounds, I won't feel so proud to say where I'm from when people ask. A NO vote will do damage to our rep abroad and that's something that concerns me as an emigrant.

Well I know as a gay person, a No vote will not only make me ashamed of our country, it will make me feel unloved by it.

I don't know if people realise the toll this thing has taken on LGBT people in Ireland - to learn there is such a vocal and bitter group dedicated to denying our equality, and a large number of voters who agree with them.

If that number gets over 50%, I will be devastated, and will truly fall out of love with our country.

floggg · 18-05-2015 10:12AM

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Surely whatever the Irish people decide is the right decision. If anyone from abroad asks why Ireland voted no, ask them if the same provisions are in their constitution and you will find that they are not. Ireland's would be the first constitution to include a same sex marriage clause.
Nothing to be ashamed of.

No. I don't feel a denial of my rights and equality will ever be right. Just like any other discrimination can never be right, no matter how many people endorse it.

In fact, they more people who endorse it, the worse the discrimination becomes.

tigger123 · 18-05-2015 10:15AM

keano_afc wrote: »

Off topic, but my voting cards still havent come. They came much earlier than this for the general election, anyone else still waiting?

I'm pretty certain that you don't actually need your voting card to vote. If you turn up to your local polling station with a passport or driving licence you can still vote.

Can anyone else confirm this?

sjb25 · 18-05-2015 10:15AM

keano_afc wrote: »

Off topic, but my voting cards still havent come. They came much earlier than this for the general election, anyone else still waiting?

Got mine but if you don't get it just go to the polling station with ID and you can vote no problems

MrWalsh · 18-05-2015 10:16AM

keano_afc wrote: »

Off topic, but my voting cards still havent come. They came much earlier than this for the general election, anyone else still waiting?

No no yet, but Ill just go down with my passport if they dont.

floggg · 18-05-2015 10:17AM

kunst nugget wrote: »

Ah, there's over-vigorous champions for truth and justice on both sides who take the law into their own hands so to speak by living in the bottom half of the internet, ripping down or defacing posters or ringing schools or business to apply pressure yet somehow, ironically, the people campaigning for the no are the only ones that are somehow able to market themselves as oppressed.

Someone was going on about the surrogacy thing and how soon nobody will be sure how they are really marrying. The strange thing is they seem to ignore the history of Mother and Baby homes, forced adoption and the inability for many from those homes to find out who their actual parents are - which muddied the waters far worse than surrogacy ever would. But hey, you can't replace a mother's love…

Somebody questions whether any angry, ignorant and venomous old man is the right sort of person to talk to kids (so of whose rights he is campaigning against) and its the greatest wrong the country has known. (Let's ignore the right of whoever made that call to free speech).

And yet when Yes canvassers are getting abused at doors up and down the country, there's no a word to be side from the so-called "anti-bullying" champions of the No side.

What about when their friends in evangelical churches are handing out vile and offensive fliers containing outrageous lies, slanders and hatred towards LGBT people. Where are they then to speak out against bullying?

Whenever there a story emerges about a gay person being beaten, abused or discriminated against, where is John Waters?

He doesn't care about bullying. He cares about his opinions, and ensuring other people are forced to live by them.

Bannasidhe · 18-05-2015 10:17AM

tigger123 wrote: »

I'm pretty certain that you don't actually need your voting card to vote. If you turn up to your local polling station with a passport or driving licence you can still vote.

Can anyone else confirm this?

If you are on the register you can vote as long as you have ID... a marriage cert for example, but not a Civil Partnership cert...

SafeSurfer · 18-05-2015 10:19AM

floggg wrote: »

No. I don't feel a denial of my rights and equality will ever be right. Just like any other discrimination can never be right, no matter how many people endorse it.

In fact, they more people who endorse it, the worse the discrimination becomes.

The difficulty is that many people think the difference between civil partnership and marriage is splitting hairs. That a vocal, well funded lobbying campaign has propelled the same sex marriage issue to the top of the Irish political agenda when there are many, in many people's view, more pressing matters.
Many people fail to comprehend how your rights are being denied. Many people are simply turned off by the political expediency of making this an issue when it could be dealt with in legislation and no one would bat an eyelid.

Bannasidhe · 18-05-2015 10:21AM

SafeSurfer wrote: »

The difficulty is that many people think the difference between civil partnership and marriage is splitting hairs. That a vocal, well funded lobbying campaign has propelled the same sex marriage issue to the top of the Irish political agenda when there are many, in many people's view, more pressing matters.
Many people fail to comprehend how your rights are being denied. Many people are simply turned off by the political expediency of making this an issue when it could be dealt with in legislation and no one would bat an eyelid.

Do you really believe if it was dealt with via legislation there wouldn't be a Constitutional challenge?

floggg · 18-05-2015 10:22AM

RobertKK wrote: »

It is legal in Spain and other countries where the people didn't decide via a referendum.
California voted against it, but had it imposed on them, which is far more shameful as it ignored the people.
One could argue these countries and states with same sex mariage, have been afraid of the people., or ignored the people if they voted against as in California.

Lol. A court over-turning what was established to be an arbitrary and pernicious form of discrimination which served no legitimate purpose whatsoever (which was established as a matter of fact in the resulting court cases) was shameful?

And I guess the courts in the U.S. where also shameful for opposing the will of the southern states to discriminate.

jobbridge4life · 18-05-2015 10:23AM

SafeSurfer wrote: »

The difficulty is that many people think the difference between civil partnership and marriage is splitting hairs. That a vocal, well funded lobbying campaign has propelled the same sex marriage issue to the top of the Irish political agenda when there are many, in many people's view, more pressing matters.
Many people fail to comprehend how your rights are being denied. Many people are simply turned off by the political expediency of making this an issue when it could be dealt with in legislation and no one would bat an eyelid.

You can't be sure of that. The only way to guarantee the constitutional protection of same sex marriage was through and amendment. Moreover what you describe seems more like someone deliberately trying to find any excuse to avoid the actual matter of the referendum and to find a reason to vote no.

Hermy · 18-05-2015 10:23AM

The thing I don't get about John Waters is his alignment with First Families First. Ditto Kathy Sinnot.

Both have been involved in campaigns for minority groups - one for unmarried fathers rights and the other for people with disabilities.

Despite this Waters was quoted in the Irish Times as saying: “Yet we have this absolute frenzy to address the needs of a much smaller grouping . . . I ask the question, what about the majority?"

floggg · 18-05-2015 10:24AM

tigger123 wrote: »

I'm pretty certain that you don't actually need your voting card to vote. If you turn up to your local polling station with a passport or driving licence you can still vote.

Can anyone else confirm this?

Yes, that's correct. They will even accept a marriage certificate as I.D.

Just not a civil partnership certificate...

SafeSurfer · 18-05-2015 10:25AM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Do you really believe if it was dealt with via legislation there wouldn't be a Constitutional challenge?

Well we wont know unless the referendum is defeated and there are moves to deal with it via legislation as has been intimated.
Other restrictions on marriage are proscribed by legislation and could be unrestricted by legislation. Why do you think there would be a constitutional challenge and why do you think it would be successful given the fact that marriage is not defined in the constitution?

floggg · 18-05-2015 10:27AM

SafeSurfer wrote: »

The difficulty is that many people think the difference between civil partnership and marriage is splitting hairs. That a vocal, well funded lobbying campaign has propelled the same sex marriage issue to the top of the Irish political agenda when there are many, in many people's view, more pressing matters.
Many people fail to comprehend how your rights are being denied. Many people are simply turned off by the political expediency of making this an issue when it could be dealt with in legislation and no one would bat an eyelid.

That doesn't make it right, now does it?

And believe me, it's not the Yes campaign who insisted this be done by referendum. Do you think we wanted this long drawn out campaign?

The fact that we have had to fight so hard to get this far shows it's not the Yes side who have made this into a contentious issue. Unless we were just expected to wait patiently until people got around to giving us the same rights and recognition.

floggg · 18-05-2015 10:30AM

Hermy wrote: »

The thing I don't get about John Waters is his alignment with First Families First. Ditto Kathy Sinnot.

Both have been involved in campaigns for minority groups - one for unmarried fathers rights and the other for people with disabilities.

Despite this Waters was quoted in the Irish Times as saying: “Yet we have this absolute frenzy to address the needs of a much smaller grouping . . . I ask the question, what about the majority?"

It's because he actually is a H word - see his comments about gay people only wanting to marry to destroy marriage for everybody else.

He clearly has an extremely low opinion of LGBT people and our relationships, and is opposed to their recognition.

He just knows that if he comes out with anything too obviously discriminatory, RTE may come looking for a refund.

Bannasidhe · 18-05-2015 10:31AM

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Well we wont know unless the referendum is defeated and there are moves to deal with it via legislation as has been intimated.
Other restrictions on marriage are proscribed by legislation and could be unrestricted by legislation. Why do you think there would be a constitutional challenge and why do you think it would be successful given the fact that marriage is not defined in the constitution?

Because I know how Iona operate.

Either way - it's academic because a Referendum has already been called.

Bannasidhe · 18-05-2015 10:32AM

floggg wrote: »

It's because he actually is a H word - see his comments about gay people only wanting to marry to destroy marriage for everybody else.

He clearly has an extremely low opinion of LGBT people and our relationships, and is opposed to their recognition.

He just knows that if he comes out with anything too obviously discriminatory, RTE may come looking for a refund.

"Lesbians playing house" said John.

kunst nugget · 18-05-2015 10:35AM

“We’re no longer Catholic Ireland,” said Evana Boyle, an organizer of Mothers and Fathers Matter, a group campaigning for a no vote. “We’re changing the essence of an institution that has been known as one man and one woman since the beginning of time.”

Boyle’s group has plastered this city, and much of the country, with posters showing opposite-sex parents kissing a cherub-faced baby along with the words “Don’t deny a child the right to a mother & a father. Vote No.”

Boyle, a lawyer and a mother of four, said her side is counting on a backlash to a new era in which homosexuality has become “normalized.” When even Catholic schools plan lessons around LGBT Awareness Week, she said, she needs to be on guard against attempts to indoctrinate her own children. “The idea of having two dads, they just go, ‘Eww, that’s not right,’ ” she said.

The essence of the No Vote argument…

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/after-decades-in-the-shadows-gays-in-ireland-ready-for-coming-out-party/2015/05/16/9e2bb6e4-f8ca-11e4-a47c-e56f4db884ed_story.html?postshare=7101431837855229

sjb25 · 18-05-2015 10:49AM

God sake some teacher on the radio calling for a no vote and on about what is he supposed to do on making mothers and Father's Day cards in school if the referendum is passed........
Scrapping the old barrel there

Kiwi in IE · 18-05-2015 10:50AM

The Indo is doing a great job of buying into the scaremongering of the no side with their front page headline today.

Hermy · 18-05-2015 10:51AM

“We’re no longer Catholic Ireland,” said Evana Boyle

Couldn't agreee more.
Now lets legislate for that fact and for all of Irelands diversity.

When even Catholic schools plan lessons around LGBT Awareness Week, she said, she needs to be on guard against attempts to indoctrinate her own children.

So don't send your kids to Catholic schools!

TheBeardedLady · 18-05-2015 10:54AM

RobertKK wrote: »

It is legal in Spain and other countries where the people didn't decide via a referendum.
California voted against it, but had it imposed on them, which is far more shameful as it ignored the people.
One could argue these countries and states with same sex mariage, have been afraid of the people., or ignored the people if they voted against as in California.

The government voted in by the Spanish people at that time were very supportive of gay marriage - people knew the kind of party they were voting in. Nothing was "imposed" upon them and that's an assumption you're making based on your own feelings on this issue.

As I said, Spanish culture is very open to homosexuality - even conservative, right-wing voters would be accepting of homosexuality. Gay Pride here goes off without incident every year and gay and lesbian couples can walk around and show affection in public without any hassle. People are not hung up on what others do behind closed doors here. It's very interesting but even if a politician is embroiled in what we'd call a sex scandal (of which there's been many), people don't give a ****e - what you do in your bed is your business as long as no laws are broken and it doesn't affect them.

My boyfriend told me there was a protest in Madrid but it was only the very hardline far-right, Opus Dei-following conservatives out on the day - the move was generally very well received and I've talked to a lot of people about this from every political background and they supported it and still do - they can't see what the big deal is.

Most people don't care because it doesn't affect them and it has had zero impact on their lives or the sacred "Family" - family ties here are still as strong as they ever were and there isn't a surge in children from gay marriages being taken into care - all the scaremongering from the far-right never came to pass, surprise surprise.

Not a NSA agent · 18-05-2015 10:57AM

I find it strange why people both with debating biological parents vs non biological parents as if there is really a choice. In the case of surrogacy the child wouldnt exist and in the case of adoption they are hardly going to just keep saying that they have decided the child is best with the biological parents so there will be no adoption.

Bannasidhe · 18-05-2015 10:57AM

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

The Indo is doing a great job of buying into the scaremongering of the no side with their front page headline today.

The Indo is so incredibly biased it's unreal - but if they keep screaming about the collapse of the Yes vote it may encourage Yes voters to get out and vote so leave 'em at it I say.

At least we know where they stand and I know I for one will avoid that particular publication in future.

TheBeardedLady · 18-05-2015 10:58AM

floggg wrote: »

Well I know as a gay person, a No vote will not only make me ashamed of our country, it will make me feel unloved by it.

I don't know if people realise the toll this thing has taken on LGBT people in Ireland - to learn there is such a vocal and bitter group dedicated to denying our equality, and a large number of voters who agree with them.

If that number gets over 50%, I will be devastated, and will truly fall out of love with our country.

I understand completely and my heart goes out to you all. I really feel for you at this time.

gandalf · 18-05-2015 11:10AM

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

The Indo is doing a great job of buying into the scaremongering of the no side with their front page headline today.

They are probably getting a big slice of bigot pizza money for adverts from the no side this week hence they are favouring them

Same Sex Marriage Referendum Mega Thread - MOD WARNING IN FIRST POST

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