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ISIS vs The IRA ?

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Comments

  • #512
    Junkyard Tom
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,115 ✭✭✭✭Junkyard Tom


    130Kph wrote: »
    What f*cking planet are you on?

    Earth. What's the view like from your planet?
    I presume you accept what I posted earlier that war is the end of everything human.

    It's difficult to pick out any coherence among the hysterical arm-waving.
    Do you know that going to war isn't kids play?

    Yes.
    So, you think the provos could kick back at Gusty and then the BA and have no consequent response. Is this what you really think? You think war is about playing fair? Jesus H Christ, you really are at square no. 1.

    It doesn't surprise me that you have it arseways. The UVF were blowing things up and shooting people dead before the PIRA was formed and before the BA was brought to the north to prevent a loyalist/RUC/B-Special bloodbath initially. Also despite the propaganda the conflict wasn't between the PIRA and loyalists. The PIRA's M.O. was to take on the security apparatus of the state whereas the M.O. of loyalists was sectarian murder.
    I'd sincerely recommend you read some books about the profundity of going to war.

    Hilarious. You wear your cluelessness with such pride. I suggest you go to the CAIN University of Ulster website where you'll find some facts.
    "The problem with the world is that the intelligent people are full of doubts, while the stupid ones are full of confidence."

    Charles Bukowski


  • #513
    Junkyard Tom
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,115 ✭✭✭✭Junkyard Tom


    130Kph wrote: »
    All the sickening loyalist atrocities happened after the provos chose the path of violence. That is a fact also.

    Post hoc ergo propter hoc. Learn your logical fallacies.

    I tend to agree with Kevin Myers' take on the issue.
    This culture did not emerge simply as a response to IRA violence. It was there already. It was feckless, violent, drunken, lost, lumpen proletarians for whom a perverted tribal identity conjoined with a Godlessly Calvinist sense of superiority, even as they stewed in their ghettoes of suffocating illiteracy and economic failure. But they were nonetheless elevated by the insane delusion that they are the chosen people, who have been deprived of their birthright by some vast conspiracy between the Catholic Church and the British government.

    independent.ie


  • #514
    LordSutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,069 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    ISIS Vs the IRA

    ISIS would win by virtue of their more overt savagery + the fact that most of the PIRA are now getting a bit old & creaky, whilst holding down political jobs in Northern Ireland & the ROI. IRA heads would roll in this hypothetical encounter.


  • #515
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 22,384 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Junkyard Cat wrote: »
    Because, surprise surprise, he has created a hierarchy and ignored that the UDR regiment of the British Army was the principle source of weapons and training to loyalist murder gangs as well as providing killers.

    He's probably also ignored the covert BA gangs who executed people and the regular ol' British soldiers who opened fire on civilians in Derry and Belfast or shot people in the back from lookout towers.

    You couldn't make them up.

    Person arguing that "their child killers were worse than ours" invents point I never made. I am shocked.

    By all means fire in the BA as well. Particularly if you can cite examples as disgusting as Warrington, La Mon and all those attacks where the IRA intended to kill as many innocent civilians as possible. I'm not defending any scumbags here, you are.

    I suppose one credit due to the BA is that they didn't seem to have a policy about raping kids and covering for it.


  • #516
    noway12345
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,152 ✭✭✭noway12345


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Person arguing that "their child killers were worse than ours" invents point I never made. I am shocked.

    By all means fire in the BA as well. Particularly if you can cite examples as disgusting as Warrington, La Mon and all those attacks where the IRA intended to kill as many innocent civilians as possible. I'm not defending any scumbags here, you are.

    I suppose one credit due to the BA is that they didn't seem to have a policy about raping kids and covering for it.

    Read up on Kincora. :rolleyes:


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  • #517
    Junkyard Tom
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,115 ✭✭✭✭Junkyard Tom


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Particularly if you can cite examples as disgusting as Warrington, La Mon

    Bloody Sunday and Ballymurphy will do that job. Not only were those people murdered they were then declared terrorists and those who carried out the acts went on to have careers in the BA. The massacred of Ballymurphy have still not been declared innocent by the British Government.
    and all those attacks where the IRA intended to kill as many innocent civilians as possible.

    Killing civilians only ever hurt the IRA cause unlike how massacring civilians was considered a success by loyalists.


  • #518
    LordSutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,069 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    Junkyard Cat wrote: »
    Killing civilians only ever hurt the IRA cause unlike how massacring civilians was considered a success by loyalists.

    Admittedly ISIS have probably killed more civilians than the IRA, which is not to say that the Provo's didn't avoid civilian deaths.


  • #519
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 22,384 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Junkyard Cat wrote: »
    Killing civilians only ever hurt the IRA cause unlike how massacring civilians was considered a success by loyalists.

    Again with the our child killers were better than theirs, because we attribute more base motives to their child killing than ours. Our child killing was always for a noble cause, so the parents should draw some comfort from that as they scrape up the remains.


  • #520
    Junkyard Tom
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,115 ✭✭✭✭Junkyard Tom


    Deleted User wrote: »
    child killers

    As ruthless as the protagonists were I don't think any set out to kill children.


  • #521
    Skylinehead
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,690 ✭✭✭✭Skylinehead


    Junkyard Cat wrote: »
    As ruthless as the protagonists were I don't think any set out to kill children.

    Doesn't change the validity of the term though.


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  • #522
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 22,384 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Junkyard Cat wrote: »
    As ruthless as the protagonists were I don't think any set out to kill children.

    In placing bombs on city streets they were at least reckless as to the prospect of children dying, and as a matter of criminal law of course they were guilty of murder in committing a felony in which children died.


  • #523
    LordSutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,069 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    Skylinehead wrote: »
    Doesn't change the validity of the term though.

    What about the validity of the thread title though?

    ISIS Vs the IRA.


  • #524
    Junkyard Tom
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,115 ✭✭✭✭Junkyard Tom


    LordSutch wrote: »
    What about the validity of the thread title though?

    ISIS Vs the IRA.

    It has no real validity because ISIS are a different entity in a different time, with a different ideology, with different capabilities, with territory and natural resources.

    The PIRA's campaign was more of an insurgency or insurrection and they didn't hold territory (the controlled it in places like south Armagh but didn't technically occupy it). Their aims were a little more modest and they disbanded when the reasons for people joining them were no longer a factor.


  • #525
    Skylinehead
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,690 ✭✭✭✭Skylinehead


    LordSutch wrote: »
    What about the validity of the thread title though?

    ISIS Vs the IRA.

    I think ISIS would win, they have Sterling Archer.


  • #526
    Junkyard Tom
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,115 ✭✭✭✭Junkyard Tom


    Deleted User wrote: »
    In placing bombs on city streets they were at least reckless as to the prospect of children dying, and as a matter of criminal law of course they were guilty of murder in committing a felony in which children died.

    I agree. It was a heinous act.


  • #527
    noway12345
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,152 ✭✭✭noway12345


    The main thing that ISIS and the PIRA have in common is the fact that Britain played a big part in creating and swelling the numbers of both!


  • #528
    Egginacup
    Site Banned Posts: 2,922 ✭✭✭Egginacup


    Well I would imagine that IS/ISIL/ISIL are enjoying success that the IRA could never have hoped for:

    Ramadi has now been taken over.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-32773780

    Incidentally, Ramadi controls the water supply to Fallujah AND Baghdad.

    Cakewalk, Bush. Cakewalk.


  • #529
    130Kph
    Closed Accounts Posts: 625 ✭✭✭130Kph


    Junkyard Cat wrote: »
    Earth. What's the view like from your planet?

    It's difficult to pick out any coherence among the hysterical arm-waving.
    Yes.
    It doesn't surprise me that you have it arseways. The UVF were blowing things up and shooting people dead before the PIRA was formed and before the BA was brought to the north to prevent a loyalist/RUC/B-Special bloodbath initially. Also despite the propaganda the conflict wasn't between the PIRA and loyalists. The PIRA's M.O. was to take on the security apparatus of the state whereas the M.O. of loyalists was sectarian murder.
    Hilarious. You wear your cluelessness with such pride. I suggest you go to the CAIN University of Ulster website where you'll find some facts.
    :eek:
    Thats it. You've convinced me by force of argument that the provos were not a bunch of moronic ****-stains of history and were in fact the smartest freedom fighters the world has ever seen. Top marks Mr Junkyard Cat. You have won the internet.:D


  • #530
    Junkyard Tom
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,115 ✭✭✭✭Junkyard Tom


    130Kph wrote: »
    :eek:
    Thats it. You've convinced me by force of argument that the provos were not a bunch of moronic ****-stains of history and were in fact the smartest freedom fighters the world has ever seen. Top marks Mr Junkyard Cat. You have won the internet.:D
    A straw man is a common form of argument and is an informal fallacy based on false representation of an opponent's argument. To be successful, a straw man argument requires that the audience be ignorant or uninformed of the original argument.

    wikipedia.org
    .


  • #531
    130Kph
    Closed Accounts Posts: 625 ✭✭✭130Kph


    Oh nooos. You're pulling all the tricks I pull on other people. :pac:

    and your as fast as ***k.

    Listen, you gave your best arguments and so did I. The readers / onlookers can decide who has the best arguments.

    I do respect you as a valiant opponent. All the best.


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  • #532
    RandomName2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,575 ✭✭✭RandomName2


    130Kph wrote: »
    Oh nooos. You're pulling all the tricks I pull on other people. :pac:

    and your as fast as ***k.

    Listen, you gave your best arguments and so did I. The readers / onlookers can decide who has the best arguments.

    I do respect you as a valiant opponent. All the best.

    He actually describes people who kidnapped, tortured and murdered civilians as valiant (on the grounds that other "combatants" during the Troubles were just as grim ). I don't know what you expected.

    Hmm: now that I think about it, that's there's another similarity between the IRA and ISIS.


  • #533
    Junkyard Tom
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,115 ✭✭✭✭Junkyard Tom


    RandomName2 wrote: »
    He actually describes people who kidnapped, tortured and murdered civilians as valiant

    No I didn't...
    Junkyard Cat wrote: »
    They were defending their homes from actual criminal gangs called loyalists valiantly.

    ...but don't let that stop you from spewing inaccuracies.


  • #534
    DarkyHughes
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,393 ✭✭✭DarkyHughes


    Junkyard Cat wrote: »
    Those bloodthirsty cowards were the lowest form of filth when it came to the troubles. When the INLA assassinated a couple of their 'soldiers' they retaliated by spraying a pub full of civilians watching a match.

    The very fact that mass murderer, and torturer of Catholics, Lenny Murphy's gravestone had 'here lies a [UVF] soldier' carved on it says it all about those sub-human degenerates.

    I agree with this completely. If they just tried to engage Republican paramilitaries I still would have disliked them but would have had more respect for them. The Loyalists in particular the UDA had close links with Nazi's, some of them even were ones the documentary "Mad Dog Adair & Nazi Nick" says it all.

    Yeah the that's Loughingisland massacre your referring to. After the INLA (who did several Protestants in their organization) ambushed & killed 3 UVF men, one was Trevor King a top UVF player, two days later while people were watching the Ireland vs Italy 1994 world cup game 2 gunmen in boiler suits burst in & sprayed the small pub to bits shooting 6 people including a man in his mid 80's in his back. It's still one of the incidents being looked into.

    There was another week in 92 or 93 the UDA shot dead 5 Catholic civilians. They annouced in a statement at the end of that week the UDA said "this has been a successful week for us"

    After the Dublin & Monaghan bombings a high level UDA & UWC said "I am very happy about the bombings in Dublin. There is a war with the Free State and now we are laughing at them." Can you imagine a member of the IRA say something like that about Birmingham, I can't anyway.


  • #535
    RecordStraight
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,292 ✭✭✭RecordStraight


    Junkyard Cat wrote: »
    No I didn't...



    ...but don't let that stop you from spewing inaccuracies.
    Were there some IRA folks who just guarded houses, while whole other groups of them abducted and murdered people and blew up children?


  • #536
    LordSutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,069 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    ISIS Vs the IRA.

    ISIS would win.


  • #537
    Junkyard Tom
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,115 ✭✭✭✭Junkyard Tom


    RecordStraight wrote: »
    Were there some IRA folks who just guarded houses, while whole other groups of them abducted and murdered people and blew up children?

    I don't know how they allocated IRA operatives to certain activities. What I do know was that when Republicans got their hands on some weaponry the whole loyalists-burning-down-entire-neighbourhoods thing stopped.


  • #538
    Crooked Jack
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,679 ✭✭✭Crooked Jack


    LordSutch wrote: »
    ISIS Vs the IRA.

    ISIS would win.

    The question is stupid. Are we talking about the IRA now? Cause as it stand ISIS win simply by existing.

    Or the combined strength of the IRA from 1919 to 2005? If so how do you deal with the fact some of them would be using weaponry a hundred years old?

    Are we talking about two teams of equal number? Well who the hell knows? It would depend on the terrain, the weapons on offer, whether it would be a conventional shoot out or guerrilla tactics.

    It's a stupid question that cannot possible be answered, at least not without a detailed breakdown of what the OP actually means. ISIS v IRA means nothing. If the scenario was ISIS invade Ireland then I've no doubt the IRA would win. IF it's ISIS as they stand today vs the IRA as they stand today (ie; they dont) then obviously ISIS win. If it's six people from each in a paintball field with real guns then it's just a coin toss. The six best from the french army could beat the six best from the Russian army, doesnt mean france would win in a showdown with Russia.

    It's no wonder the thread has gone off topic. The topic is meaningless as it stands


  • #539
    Crooked Jack
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,679 ✭✭✭Crooked Jack


    RecordStraight wrote: »
    Were there some IRA folks who just guarded houses?

    http://www.anphoblacht.com/contents/24047


  • #540
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    LordSutch wrote: »
    ISIS Vs the IRA.

    ISIS would win.

    Sutch - the worlds first Unionist Jihadi....


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  • #541
    Crooked Jack
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,679 ✭✭✭Crooked Jack


    Nodin wrote: »
    Sutch - the worlds first Unionist Jihadi....

    Quote of the day :pac::pac:


This discussion has been closed.
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