Same Sex Marriage Referendum Mega Thread - MOD WARNING IN FIRST POST

SaveOurLyric wrote: »

That would be the thin edge of the wedge, all havoc would break loose, and it would lead to the breakdown of civil society as we know it. Think of the children.

your forgot the fabric.

efb wrote: »

Comfort or Lenor?

Lilly's.

Irish made, not tested on animals, no nasty chemicals.

:cool:

gandalf wrote: »

I'd agree with you about this. I would also say an increasing number of Hetero Married couples do not want children either based on the number of them who have chosen to remain childless.



What about single parents, divorced parents where one of the spouses have moved out of the country or widowed parents.

What you are wringing your hands about already exists in the real world and in reality it has nothing to do with marriage.



But it has already been made clear that Surrogacy has nothing to do with this referendum. Whatever is decided by government about Surrogacy in the future will effect all prospective parents equally be they single people, gay people or married couples (gay or straight).

Have a read of this linked article. It debunks a lot of your "concerns".

http://www.iccl.ie/articles/yes-equality-myth-busters.html

Scroll up or read my full reply.

I was just answering a question from a YES voter - Just giving some facts - I have no interest or concerns with surrogacy , except that its its own messy tricky area.

gk5000 wrote: »

No its the other way about. I like alcohol, and some people wish to change my relationship to alcohol - in an unknown way.

But the consequences....

:pac:

Bannasidhe wrote: »

How is the parenting going to be kept out of it exactly?
Do same-sex couples who are currently parents agree not to get married?
Do they hand their kids over for adoption?

Do gay couples who are getting married agree to get sterilised?

Should ALL gay couples who want to get married be denied because some selfish Lesbians and gay men went and procreated before being granted permission? I mean, everyone knows straight people get permission first right.

The Draft of the Head of the Marriage Bill has been published. It is on the Dept of Justice's website, there is a link to it on the Referendum Commission's web site. Instead of running around intoning we'rrrre dooooomed! DOOOOMMMMEEEED! Why not read the Bill? See what is proposed.

Look - here is a link :http://www.justice.ie/en/JELR/General%20Scheme%20of%20the%20Marriage%20Bill%202015.pdf/Files/General%20Scheme%20of%20the%20Marriage%20Bill%202015.pdf

It's there. They have thought about this. They wrote down the plan.

The legal system cannot handle it until they see the legislation - that is one of the reason the draft has been published.

The Irish legal system also couldn't handle divorce until they saw the legislation.
They couldn't handle bloody penalty points until they say the legislation (ok... there were issues with penalty points so bad example )

I do not know how this could have been done - to separate the ssm from the impact on parenting/children.

I thought that what civil unions was for, and that could have been modified to give all the same married rights to gay people and have no impact on existing marriages.

But instead we have this referendum where mostly the yes side including yourself deny the impact on parenting/children.

Anyway, any answer to the birth cert question?

haveringchick wrote: »

No it clears nothing up.
The posters brother was at a Catholic sacrament ceremony in a Catholic church and the Catholic celebrant took the opportunity to speak on the Catholic churches position in the referendum.What does this have to do with the Yes canvassers outside the church?

It was a discussion about the inappropriacy of using religious events such as a communion or confirmation to present a position on a referendum, either inside or outside the church.

Again, this was evident from reading the posts.

Bannasidhe wrote: »

If you have no problem with gay marriage as such just concerns about children but most gay couple do not have or want children ...

I'm struggling to see what your problem is...

The impact of this on existing marriages.

Bad example but - Have any gay bars been destroyed by becoming too popular with hetero's?

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

More importantly, what does the catholic position have to do with the state?

Nothing but that never stopped them before meddling in the affairs of Irish society. 2015 and it's incredible we are even discussing their view on anything. The sooner Ireland liberlises the better. Religion is and always should be a completely private matter.

osarusan wrote: »

Seeing as how you feel that the majority of SSM have no interest in having children, apart from through surrogacy, which you have no problem with, it should be easy for to separate the two issues?

Yep - civil union.

haveringchick wrote: »

That's preposterous.
How is s Catholic sacrament in a Catholic church attended by Catholics snd celebrated by a Catholic.cleric.an inappropriate occasion to espouse the Catholic pposition on an upcoming referendum?
I really want to hear this

It was not my opinion, it was the opinion of RobertKK:

efb wrote: »

So the bishops/priests were also in the wrong- glad we agree

RobertKK wrote: »

Yes, fine at Sunday mass, not at special church events.

Perhaps you should ask that poster what is so preposterous, if you want to hear it.

Again, I assume you have already read all these posts.

gk5000 wrote: »

I would support ssm if it was separated from parenting or had no impact on existing marriage legally.

It has no impact on marriage as it is. All it does is extend marriage to all citizens of this country.

The point is that the tail is wagging the dog.
Very few people with very few children are trying to change the constitution which shall affect the majority of peope who have children.

Again as one of those married people who does have a child I can confirm from my extensive reading on this that the proposal will have no effect at all on my current married status or will effect my childs relationship with me or my wife.

http://www.iccl.ie/articles/yes-equality-myth-busters.html

gk5000 wrote: »

I do not know how this could have been done - to separate the ssm from the impact on parenting/children.

I thought that what civil unions was for, and that could have been modified to give all the same married rights to gay people and have no impact on existing marriages.

But instead we have this referendum where mostly the yes side including yourself deny the impact on parenting/children.

Anyway, any answer to the birth cert question?

I never said it wouldn't impact on children. I said it isn't about children.

If (big if there) a gay couple who have children get married - because a married couple is a Constitutionally protected family - that protection will extend to the children - it's a beneficial byproduct.

However - the protection the couple receive will not be impacted by whether or not they have children. That will remain the same.

It has to do with who is considered a family.

A NO win denies the children of gay parents - even if there are only 5 in the whole country (there is more than that) - the protection of being a member of a legally protected family unit because it will deny that child's parents the ability to become a family.

The whole reason for the referendum is because only a married couple is legally a family in Irish Law.

This means there are three options if Gay couples are going to have full Constitutional protection and recognition as a family.

1. Remove all mentions of marriage from the Constitution = everyone loses that protection.
2. Extend who can marry to include same sex couple = straight and Gay married couples have the same protection.
3. Introduce a clause for a separate but equal 'Civil Partnership' 2.0 which is identical to marriage but not called marriage = legal segregation.

The Children and Family Relationship Act has already removed any issues around Same-Sex parenting. It is done and dusted. Same-sex parents exist, same sex couples can adopt as a couple. It's done.

What is left is will those couples be legally a family or not along with all those gay couples who do not have children/don't want children.

It's not our fault that the Constitution is written the way it is...

What birth cert question?

I am being distracted by three jack russells on a fly hunt so I may have missed it.