Same Sex Marriage Referendum Mega Thread - MOD WARNING IN FIRST POST

looking_around · 16-05-2015 04:34PM

Plryty wrote: »

Just as a casual viewer, the conduct from members of the yes campaign defacing posters etc was largely supported by those voting yes, not just by ordinary citizens who have been swept up in a sudden zeal by this campaign, but by many gay people too who in instances were more than just vocal supporters of such actions. Many would expect better from this sub-section of society who has been marginalised in previous decades & claims equality. Not for them to hurl ad-hominem attacks at people who are unsure where their vote lies or to take it upon themselves to decide what information should be publicly removed.

Like it or not, such conduct is not going to win sympathisers to a cause. Regardless of the actions of the opposing party.

lying posters should be banned, how such things can be advertised without any basis in truth is....idk, disappointing?
I'm all for freedom of speech, but isn't there some law to disallow the spreading lies? #sighs#

Those posters aimed to create strong emotions. That WAS their aim. And they've succeeded.
I don't blame the people who got angry at these posters, they are downright despicable and insulting (for a range of people, not just those of the lgbt community).
Of course that doesnt make what they did right, but how can anyone be truly ok with the lies????

tayto lover · 16-05-2015 04:36PM

looking_around wrote: »

lying posters should be banned, how such things can be advertised without any basis in truth is....idk, disappointing?
I'm all for freedom of speech, but isn't there some law to disallow the spreading lies? #sighs#

Those posters aimed to create strong emotions. That WAS their aim. And they've succeeded.
I don't blame the people who got angry at these posters, they are downright despicable and insulting (for a range of people, not just those of the lgbt community).
Of course that doesnt make what they did right, but how can anyone be truly ok with the lies????

I feel the same way about politicians. Lies, lies, lies.

Plryty · 16-05-2015 04:38PM

looking_around wrote: »

lying posters should be banned, how such things can be advertised without any basis in truth is....idk, disappointing?
I'm all for freedom of speech, but isn't there some law to disallow the spreading lies? #sighs#

Those posters aimed to create strong emotions. That WAS their aim. And they've succeeded.
I don't blame the people who got angry at these posters, they are downright despicable and insulting (for a range of people, not just those of the lgbt community).
Of course that doesnt make what they did right, but how can anyone be truly ok with the lies????

I'm sure there is a suitable avenue for complaints on misleading information. Thankfully society does not deem mob-mentality as an ok avenue & many would like to see that remain that way.

blacklilly · 16-05-2015 04:38PM

looking_around wrote: »

lying posters should be banned, how such things can be advertised without any basis in truth is....idk, disappointing?
I'm all for freedom of speech, but isn't there some law to disallow the spreading lies? #sighs#

Those posters aimed to create strong emotions. That WAS their aim. And they've succeeded.
I don't blame the people who got angry at these posters, they are downright despicable and insulting (for a range of people, not just those of the lgbt community).
Of course that doesnt make what they did right, but how can anyone be truly ok with the lies????

Just out of interest, can you specifically explain the lies these posters are purported to state?

endacl · 16-05-2015 04:41PM

Plryty wrote: »

I'm sure there is a suitable avenue for complaints on misleading information. Thankfully society does not deem mob-mentality as an ok avenue & many would like to see that remain that way.

Doesn't have to be mob mentality. I've, as an individual, removed several no posters that were visible from my living room window. They were spoiling an otherwise fine view and contained lies. I didn't remove any that weren't annoying me at home.

endacl · 16-05-2015 04:42PM

blacklilly wrote: »

Just out of interest, can you specifically explain the lies these posters are purported to state?

Read the thread. They've been specifically explained. Many times.

LeopoldIII · 16-05-2015 04:42PM

I probably hadn't really intended to vote in the referendum, it was only of passing interest. I had more or less decided to vote yes based on the equality posters I saw. Then I got the Independent Guide from the Referendum Commission. That got me thinking.

I read the Constitution and saw no inequality. The rules on marriage are set out in legislation, not the Constitution. The majority of people I spoke to, in a similar situation to myself with no real interest in the matter, didn't realise this. They thought that they were being asked whether or not to remove some sort of same sex marriage ban from the Constitution.

I really do think that politicians were let off the hook on this one. The shouty seem to rule the roost these days.

I see no need for this referendum and shall be voting no for that reason.

Plryty · 16-05-2015 04:48PM

endacl wrote: »

Doesn't have to be mob mentality. I've, as an individual, removed several no posters that were visible from my living room window. They were spoiling an otherwise fine view and contained lies. I didn't remove any that weren't annoying me at home.

Could I indifferently remove any posters within my line of sight from my house regardless of what land it is situated on because the posters are not objective?

If not, why is what you have done any different?

blacklilly · 16-05-2015 04:50PM

endacl wrote: »

Read the thread. They've been specifically explained. Many times.

200+ pages to read......no thanks.

SummerSummit · 16-05-2015 04:52PM

LeopoldIII wrote: »

I probably hadn't really intended to vote in the referendum, it was only of passing interest. I had more or less decided to vote yes based on the equality posters I saw. Then I got the Independent Guide from the Referendum Commission. That got me thinking.

I read the Constitution and saw no inequality. The rules on marriage are set out in legislation, not the Constitution. The majority of people I spoke to, in a similar situation to myself with no real interest in the matter, didn't realise this. They thought that they were being asked whether or not to remove some sort of same sex marriage ban from the Constitution.

I really do think that politicians were let off the hook on this one. The shouty seem to rule the roost these days.

I see no need for this referendum and shall be voting no for that reason.

You read the referendum commission website!! Really???

The current rules on marriage
Before 5 December 2005, the rules in relation to who could marry were determined by the common law and by some statutory provisions which set out certain impediments to marriage. It was accepted common law that a marriage could only be between two people of the opposite sex. There were statutory rules about, among other things, the age of the parties to the marriage, prohibited degrees of relationship and requirements to give notice (the requirement to give notice applied from 1 August 1996)
http://refcom2015.ie/marriage/#

G_R · 16-05-2015 04:53PM

endacl wrote: »

iPhone? Mods can mod from a phone?!? :eek:

I'd imagined some kind of hollowed out mountain/batcave/underground bunker type arrangement.

You're kind of correct - we do most of our modding from there (we call it the ModCave - we're a very creative bunch) but every now and again the Admins kindly let us out for fresh air, during which time they monitor us on the phones to ensure were still working.

CiDeRmAn · 16-05-2015 04:53PM

endacl wrote: »

iPhone? Mods can mod from a phone?!? :eek:

I'd imagined some kind of hollowed out mountain/batcave/underground bunker type arrangement.

I mod from a phone, but android, natch.
iPhone owners are the No voters of the phone world

blacklilly · 16-05-2015 04:54PM

endacl wrote: »

Doesn't have to be mob mentality. I've, as an individual, removed several no posters that were visible from my living room window. They were spoiling an otherwise fine view and contained lies. I didn't remove any that weren't annoying me at home.

Unauthorised removal of posters is a criminal offence. Do you normally spend your time at home gazing out your windows? What you did was wrong, if someone was to remove yes campaign posters they would be wrong too and in doing so would be carrying out a criminal act

marienbad · 16-05-2015 04:55PM

LeopoldIII wrote: »

I probably hadn't really intended to vote in the referendum, it was only of passing interest. I had more or less decided to vote yes based on the equality posters I saw. Then I got the Independent Guide from the Referendum Commission. That got me thinking.

I read the Constitution and saw no inequality. The rules on marriage are set out in legislation, not the Constitution. The majority of people I spoke to, in a similar situation to myself with no real interest in the matter, didn't realise this. They thought that they were being asked whether or not to remove some sort of same sex marriage ban from the Constitution.

I really do think that politicians were let off the hook on this one. The shouty seem to rule the roost these days.

I see no need for this referendum and shall be voting no for that reason.

You can't be serious !

ronivek · 16-05-2015 04:58PM

LeopoldIII wrote: »

I probably hadn't really intended to vote in the referendum, it was only of passing interest. I had more or less decided to vote yes based on the equality posters I saw. Then I got the Independent Guide from the Referendum Commission. That got me thinking.

I read the Constitution and saw no inequality. The rules on marriage are set out in legislation, not the Constitution. The majority of people I spoke to, in a similar situation to myself with no real interest in the matter, didn't realise this. They thought that they were being asked whether or not to remove some sort of same sex marriage ban from the Constitution.

I really do think that politicians were let off the hook on this one. The shouty seem to rule the roost these days.

I see no need for this referendum and shall be voting no for that reason.

How about voting on the issue at hand; rather than your layman's interpretation of whether a vote on the issue was necessary or not?

You're being asked to enshrine marriage equality in our constitution which by extension directs our lawmakers to ensure the same thing happens in the rest of our legal frameworks.

Either you agree with same sex marriage or you don't; or maybe you just don't care. Vote according to that; or abstain if you really don't care.

blacklilly · 16-05-2015 04:59PM

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

What's your point though?

Is my point not clear? Removal of posters is wrong, in fact criminal. ...that's a pretty clear point is it not?

16-05-2015 05:01PM

Hammer Archer wrote: »

Do you not see the irony in what you've posted given what sup dude posted shortly before?
Why is it that when the Yes side "bully" other people (I honestly haven't seen any of it) it somehow drives people to vote No, yet when the No side compare homosexuals to paedophiles and bully Yes voters it's all OK.

Do you condone this behaviour by the No side? And if you don't condone it, why are you still voting No because of so called bullying by the Yes side?

I posted in the change your mind thread but subsequently had to lock it.

Basically, a friend of mine has been canvassing every night for the past while, going door to door and asking for support. He has had people tell him that they are voting no politely, and he says thank you and continues on his way - he said it's mostly older people and he can't understand they're of a different generation.

However, on top of the support and the polite no voters, he gets abuse, most nights. I spoke to him yesterday and the previous night he had things thrown and him and called a fcuking queer. He hasn't once posted on Facebook giving out about the people who abuse him. He just gets on with it. As a man in his forties, he's used to homophobic abuse, so used to it that he's not outrage by it and he's not calling Joe Duffy to complain about the people "representing" the No side.

It's so very sad, that people like my friend are at the mercy of this referendum. How he maintains his dignity is inspiring. If I was fighting for my equality I'm not sure I could be so calm.

I hope beyond all hope, for him, for my other gay friends, for this generation, for the generations to come, and for this country, that this referendum passes. I'm sick in the pit of my stomach when I even consider the alternative.

Dimithy · 16-05-2015 05:02PM

goldencrisp62 wrote: »

Each opinion is valid and must be respected

The moon is made of cheese, and all black people are the spawn of satan.
Valid opinion and you must respect that...

Dimithy · 16-05-2015 05:04PM

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

No, that's different because [scene missing].

Are you bullying me?

Bannasidhe · 16-05-2015 05:04PM

Plryty wrote: »

I'm sure there is a suitable avenue for complaints on misleading information. Thankfully society does not deem mob-mentality as an ok avenue & many would like to see that remain that way.

No. There isn't.

The only avenue is to complain to the Referendum Commission who will usually post the correct information on their website but have no power to compel anyone to tell the truth or to withdraw any misleading or derogatory statements.

Such is the level of misinformation - and lies - the Referendum Commission has gone further than that and given interviews in an attempt to clarify - which cause member's of the No campaign to insinuate that because he had links to FG he was lying. That is an outrageous comment.

It's a free for all which allows the No Campaign to lie, insult and demean people while crying foul when those people get angry.

keeponhurling · 16-05-2015 05:04PM

If it was really about equality, then why should marriage even exist as it provides tax breaks to married couples, which single people don't get.

Why is it limited to 2 people, above a certain age etc. if we want true equality.

Why should a married couple get different treatment to two single people ?
Is marriage a concept to assist in providing a solid foundation to create/raise kids? Apparently not, as we are told marriage and family are not related at all, changing one makes no difference to the other.

Maybe the most equal way is to remove marriage altogether, so nobody ever has to identify themselves as married or single again, true equality.

blacklilly · 16-05-2015 05:06PM

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

Beating people up is wrong too, but every town has that one little scumbag that needs a good kicking to put manners on him.

Last time I checked this thread was about the referendum, not vandalism.

So we're agreed that the people that remove posters need a good kicking then?:pac:

No need to tell me what the thread is about, my posts were in reply to a poster who admitted to removing posters....admitted to a criminal act

walkingshadow · 16-05-2015 05:07PM

blacklilly wrote: »

Is my point not clear? Removal of posters is wrong, in fact criminal. ...that's a pretty clear point is it not?

Whats wrong is the blatent lies peddled by the No campaign posters. They have no right to erect such disgusting tripe.

Bannasidhe · 16-05-2015 05:07PM

Plryty wrote: »

Just as a casual viewer, the conduct from members of the yes campaign defacing posters etc was largely supported by those voting yes, not just by ordinary citizens who have been swept up in a sudden zeal by this campaign, but by many gay people too who in instances were more than just vocal supporters of such actions. Many would expect better from this sub-section of society who has been marginalised in previous decades & claims equality. Not for them to hurl ad-hominem attacks at people who are unsure where their vote lies or to take it upon themselves to decide what information should be publicly removed.

Like it or not, such conduct is not going to win sympathisers to a cause. Regardless of the actions of the opposing party.

On the contrary all of the various Yes Campaign HQ around the country asked people to leave the posters alone.

Where is the condemnation from the No side of the theft of a Yes banner in Cork's North Main Street on Monday? The silence is deafening...

TwoShedsJackson · 16-05-2015 05:13PM

goldencrisp62 wrote: »

I made the reason very clear in the rest of my post why I was voting no, to protect democracy.

you should respect everyone's entitlement to a different opinion than your own. Just because you don't agree with it doesn't mean it's wrong. Each opinion is valid and must be respected;you would want to respect that to respect the tenets underpinning democracy, not the group think cultural liberalism that is being forced upon people regarding this topic.

If I don't agree with you please respect that and don't bully or attempt to brain wash me - that's the big problem with this referendum.

An opinion does not have to be respected. It may be respected if the person who holds it could maybe back some or all of it up with resorting to fallacies or obfuscation.

But if you put forth your opinion in a realm of public debate, you can't start getting upset when someone else decides to debate or discuss it with you. It doesn't automatically follow that you're being 'bullied' or 'shouted down' if some disagrees with you, either.

Shrap · 16-05-2015 05:13PM

walkingshadow wrote: »

Whats wrong is the blatent lies peddled by the No campaign posters. They have no right to erect such disgusting tripe.

I agree with your first sentence, but unfortunately your second sentence is wrong. They have every right to erect all the lies, disinformation and peddling of fear that they want to because *democracy fail*, there's no law to stop them. Civil disobedience has it's place under certain circumstances IMO.

looking_around · 16-05-2015 05:15PM

blacklilly wrote: »

Just out of interest, can you specifically explain the lies these posters are purported to state?

I mentioned one.
"A child needs a mother and a father".

No, they don't.
They need love and a male and female role model.
These role models do not have to related.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/01/100121135904.htm

something on gender role models
http://sexualityandu.ca/uploads/files/CTR_GenderRolesAndYoungChildren_MAY2013-ENG.pdf
(as you'll notice it's parents and caregivers, someone the kids spends alot of time with. If a gay couple, lets the grandmother babysit the kid often. The kid will get it's balance on gender roles.
But there's so much more out there, just google.
__
Another is talk of surrogacy and "she

the use of she, is extra emotive, instead of just "a kid"

needs her mother for more than nine months".
I guess all adopted kids are fcuked?
and this referendum has nothing to do with surrogacy.

__
These are just the 2 types of no posters, I've seen around here.

Dan_Solo · 16-05-2015 05:16PM

The No side have lost the debate and dead certs to lose the vote so it's all about the defaced posters isn't it.
I mean, who gives a sh1t? If you're persuaded by a one liner on a poster (which I think shouldn't be allowed anyway) then your opinion is no great addition to the constitution anyway.

SafeSurfer · 16-05-2015 05:20PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I posted in the change your mind thread but subsequently had to lock it.

Basically, a friend of mine has been canvassing every night for the past while, going door to door and asking for support. He has had people tell him that they are voting no politely, and he says thank you and continues on his way - he said it's mostly older people and he can't understand they're of a different generation.

However, on top of the support and the polite no voters, he gets abuse, most nights. I spoke to him yesterday and the previous night he had things thrown and him and called a fcuking queer. He hasn't once posted on Facebook giving out about the people who abuse him. He just gets on with it. As a man in his forties, he's used to homophobic abuse, so used to it that he's not outrage by it and he's not calling Joe Duffy to complain about the people "representing" the No side.

It's so very sad, that people like my friend are at the mercy of this referendum. How he maintains his dignity is inspiring. If I was fighting for my equality I'm not sure I could be so calm.

I hope beyond all hope, for him, for my other gay friends, for this generation, for the generations to come, and for this country, that this referendum passes. I'm sick in the pit of my stomach when I even consider the alternative.

The alternative being the issue being dealt with in legislation? What implications would a no vote have? Canvassers will always encounter abuse on the door steps. It comes with the territory. That abuse stems from ones sexual preference or skin colour or religion is disgusting.

keeponhurling · 16-05-2015 05:22PM

Maybe going off track a little, but does filling the country with "vote yes" or "vote no" posters, possibly with a short slogan, add anything to the debate ?

It looks terrible.

I understand getting the arguments on both sides into the public, but some posters or literature are just littering really and don't contain any information.

Same Sex Marriage Referendum Mega Thread - MOD WARNING IN FIRST POST

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