Same Sex Marriage Referendum Mega Thread - MOD WARNING IN FIRST POST

ixoy · 14-05-2015 01:04PM

The near overwhelming support from the young generation is encouraging at least : that the up and coming citizens of tomorrow do believe in equality.

Heartening too to see my straight friends getting worked up about this too. There's comfort in that.

Kiwi in IE · 14-05-2015 01:06PM

floggg wrote: »

It tells me you don't see the rights of gay people as that big a deal. You can't empathise with us or have regard for our position.

This is the bit that I find the most frightening and dangerous. The lack of empathy. How can people not have the ability to imagine themselves in another persons situation? I can easily imagine how I might feel if I had lesser legal protections in my relationship and had to put up with discrimination and being treated as lesser in the society which I live, and having people actively campaign to continue the inequality. It's so easy to imagine how horrible that would be. That is a big part of what informs me that this is absoloutley, unquestionably 100% right! I don't get people who can't do that.

Bannasidhe · 14-05-2015 01:07PM

StewartGriffin wrote: »

This has come up a lot in the past few pages. Even if the vote is No on May 22, take a look around the Global politics and you will find Ireland is close to the top on gay rights.

If people were to leave, where would you go?

Remember that just because a country has introduced a measure like Gay Marriage, it is unlikely to have been voted on by it's people, and so does not correlate with a lower rate of homophobia amongst the general population.

Why should we have to go anywhere?

Why can't we be treated as equal citizens in the land of our birth?

Does being Gay make us less Irish?

That_Guy · 14-05-2015 01:08PM

StewartGriffin wrote: »

If people were to leave, where would you go?

Never said I'd leave. I would just feel uncomfortable.
I'm coming from a social care background and we're being taught about trying to promote dignity and rights to promote an egalitarian society that is far from being equal.

It just doesn't make sense to me really.

StewartGriffin · 14-05-2015 01:08PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Why should we have to go anywhere?

You don't.

Bannasidhe · 14-05-2015 01:11PM

StewartGriffin wrote: »

You don't.

If it fails we have a choice so - stay in the knowledge that our fellow citizens don't see us equal or leave.

We can be outsiders at home or outsiders abroad.

Gee such a surfeit of opportunity.

Kiwi in IE · 14-05-2015 01:11PM

kunst nugget wrote: »

Tbf, her son was a special case. That wife of his was an awful burden. I heard she was from a rough family. Never did a tap around the house and let herself go something rotten.

The rest of the people looking for divorce are wife swapping sodomites so I can understand her stance.

Ahhhahaha! You have not only hit the nail on the head, but driven it straight home!

SireOfSeth · 14-05-2015 01:11PM

ixoy wrote: »

The near overwhelming support from the young generation is encouraging at least : that the up and coming citizens of tomorrow do believe in equality.

Heartening too to see my straight friends getting worked up about this too. There's comfort in that.

I'm straight, and my 12 yo son asked: "But why would anyone not want to allow gay people to get married too?" The confusion on his face said it all. I asked him, if he was old enough to vote, how would he vote... He said "Yes" - again with a confused look on his face, as if, how is there logically any other response to that question. Heartwarming! Proud Dad.

jobbridge4life · 14-05-2015 01:12PM

StewartGriffin wrote: »

You don't.

No we should be content to be second class citizens in our country all the while you can be sure we will be taxed equally. Have you no capacity for human empathy?

traprunner · 14-05-2015 01:13PM

Roger_007 wrote: »

I don't see what the big attraction of marriage is. I have been married and divorced. My marriage broke up before the divorce referendum was passed. So I was in a legal limbo for a long time. I eventually got divorced when it became possible to do so. It was a tortuous process which I would never like to repeat.
There is no way I'd ever get married again even though I'm in a long term relationship.
Civil Partnership is a much better option. If things go wrong in a relationship, as they often do, the resolution is so much simpler and less less painful and less costly with Civil Partnership than with marriage.
My advice would be, whether you are gay or straight, is: Don't get married.

But you had a choice regardless of your experience. Either open it up for all or ban it for all!

frostyjacks · 14-05-2015 01:14PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

If it fails we have a choice so - stay in the knowledge that our fellow citizens don't see us equal or leave.

We can be outsiders at home or outsiders abroad.

Gee such a surfeit of opportunity.

I do see homosexuals as equal, I just don't think they should be allowed to marry each other. Ireland is one of the most tolerant places in the world for homosexuals now, it's not like the bad old days.

jobbridge4life · 14-05-2015 01:15PM

frostyjacks wrote: »

I do see homosexuals as equal, I just don't think they should be allowed to marry each other. Ireland is one of the most tolerant places in the world for homosexuals now, it's not like the bad old days.

So you don't see us as equals and whats more you want the state to enforce your opinions on others who might feel differently. Cheers.

Roger_007 · 14-05-2015 01:17PM

Hyzepher wrote: »

At the moment not everyone has that choice

If the referendum is passed, as seems likely, then everyone WILL have that choice. But just remember that marriage is a lot easier to get into than to get out of. I know that virtually nobody gets married with intention of getting a divorce later on. But the reality is that many marriages break down and the constitution makes it very difficult to resolve the situation.

My view is that there should be no reference to marriage in the constitution at all; it should be a matter for legislation by the Oireactas.

That is why I will be voting NO.

Bannasidhe · 14-05-2015 01:18PM

frostyjacks wrote: »

I do see homosexuals as equal, I just don't think they should be allowed to marry each other. Ireland is one of the most tolerant places in the world for homosexuals now, it's not like the bad old days.

No.

You do not see us as equal.
You see us as tolerable but not the same.

By the way - do you ask single mothers where the baby daddy is? You never did respond after your crass comments to Sonics...

StewartGriffin · 14-05-2015 01:18PM

jobbridge4life wrote: »

No we should be content to be second class citizens in our country all the while you can be sure we will be taxed equally. Have you no capacity for human empathy?

I don't believe there is a country on the planet that could hold this referendum without generating at least as much vitriolic debate and dirty campaigning as we see here.

And really, - "Have you no capacity for human empathy?" - Get off the stage.

drunkmonkey · 14-05-2015 01:19PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

However, I stand by my comment - a No vote is to all intents and purposes a vote in support of Iona

Nope

Kiwi in IE · 14-05-2015 01:19PM

SireOfSeth wrote: »

I'm straight, and my 12 yo son asked: "But why would anyone not want to allow gay people to get married too?" The confusion on his face said it all. I asked him, if he was old enough to vote, how would he vote... He said "Yes" - again with a confused look on his face, as if, how is there logically any other response to that question. Heartwarming! Proud Dad.

I was talking about it with my 6 year old and he looked confused as well and replied "but that's really silly" (gay people being unable to marry).

osarusan · 14-05-2015 01:20PM

frostyjacks wrote: »

I do see homosexuals as equal, I just don't think they should be allowed to marry each other.

I don't see how you can possibly reconcile the two parts of that sentence.

I do see them as equal, but I don't want them to have equality.

jobbridge4life · 14-05-2015 01:20PM

StewartGriffin wrote: »

I don't believe there is a country on the planet that could hold this referendum without generating at least as much vitriolic debate and dirty campaigning as we see here.

And really, - "Have you no capacity for human empathy?" - Get off the stage.

Probably not. That doesn't excuse it does it? So in addition to feeling you have the right to determine who I can marry you know feel you can tell me to stop speaking. Nice.

StewartGriffin · 14-05-2015 01:21PM

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

I was talking about it with my 6 year old and he looked confused as well and replied "but that's really silly" (gay people being unable to marry).

Mentioned it to my four year old. He didn't know what the hell I was talking about.

Bannasidhe · 14-05-2015 01:22PM

Roger_007 wrote: »

If the referendum is passed, as seems likely, then everyone WILL have that choice. But just remember that marriage is a lot easier to get into than to get out of. I know that virtually nobody gets married with intention of getting a divorce later on. But the reality is that many marriages break down and the constitution makes it very difficult to resolve the situation.

My view is that there should be no reference to marriage in the constitution at all; it should be a matter for legislation by the Oireactas.

That is why I will be voting NO.

But it is in the Constitution and we have to deal with that fact.

I don't think it should be in the blasted thing either but no one asked my opinion.
Voting No will not remove it from the Constitution.

endacl · 14-05-2015 01:23PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Why should we have to go anywhere?

Why can't we be treated as equal citizens in the land of our birth?

Does being Gay make us less Irish?

Yes. Unless you have red hair and freckles. Then your extra Irish. Freckles cancel out de gay.

floggg · 14-05-2015 01:23PM

gandalf wrote: »

Yep I'm a married man and I would be very disappointed with my fellow citizens if we kept this discrimination in place.

For me personally and all those like me a yes vote doesn't change anything. It doesn't change the marriage I have to my wife, it doesn't change my relationship with my son. It doesn't lessen the legal protection that I or my spouse have under the law.

What is does is extend these benefits to a minority in this country and allow them to truly call themselves legal families and not only gives them legal protection but more importantly constitutional protection.

A no vote would be the realisation of every fear I ever had as a closeted youth - that to be gay is to be unaccepted, unequal, different and unwelcome.

I have always truly loved my country and proud to be Irish. I dont honestly know if I could say that if it's a No.

TheChizler · 14-05-2015 01:24PM

Roger_007 wrote: »

If the referendum is passed, as seems likely, then everyone WILL have that choice. But just remember that marriage is a lot easier to get into than to get out of. I know that virtually nobody gets married with intention of getting a divorce later on. But the reality is that many marriages break down and the constitution makes it very difficult to resolve the situation.

My view is that there should be no reference to marriage in the constitution at all; it should be a matter for legislation by the Oireactas.

That is why I will be voting NO.

That's a fair enough view on marriage and a many in the Yes side would agree with you. But why would you vote no, you want marriage out of the constitution, when that's not the question being asked? Surely being equally able to avail of something good or bad is better than only some people being allowed it? It's their decision as adults at the end of the day whether it's for them or not.

There's only two choices on the docket, yes and no. There's no 'no - to all marriage in the constitution' so how do you intend to get your point across with the incorrect option on an anonymous piece of paper?

frostyjacks · 14-05-2015 01:24PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

No.

You do not see us as equal.
You see us as tolerable but not the same.

By the way - do you ask single mothers where the baby daddy is? You never did respond after your crass comments to Sonics...

It does cross my mind, yes.

endacl · 14-05-2015 01:25PM

StewartGriffin wrote: »

Mentioned it to my four year old. He didn't know what the hell I was talking about.

He didn't arrive with any built in prejudices. Kids are nice that way.

Bannasidhe · 14-05-2015 01:25PM

frostyjacks wrote: »

It does cross my mind, yes.

But you don't actually ask?

Why not?

Roger_007 · 14-05-2015 01:25PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

But it is in the Constitution and we have to deal with that fact.

I don't think it should be in the blasted thing either but no one asked my opinion.
Voting No will not remove it from the Constitution.

I'm not going to support putting stuff in the constitution that shouldn't be there.

WoolyJumper · 14-05-2015 01:26PM

iDave wrote: »

Never felt so strongly about a referendum and I'm not even a member of the LGBT community.

For No voters I wont 'bully' you but I urge you to reconsider.

It's people like you and many others here and part of the yes campaign who aren't gay but feel so passionate about this that they are actively campaigning for a yes vote. Taking time and energy out of their day to try and make a difference. It means a lot and doesn't go unnoticed. It's people like you and people like my friends and family where there was never even a question on how they would vote that give me something positive to hold on to on an otherwise really, negative, deflating few weeks.

I never felt different or outside of "normal" society until this campaign. I was lucky with my friends and family that not only did they accept me but they didn't treat me like I was different. Not even a little bit. But for the first time I am starting to see there are a lot of people that see me as different. Fundamentally not like them. That really for a lot of people, I will always be "that gay guy" rather than a normal guy that just happens to be attracted to other men. People are happy to have me around as long as I don't over step my mark. Some people are happy with me asking for equality, and might even give it to me. As long as I do it on their terms and don't kick up too much of a fuss. This referendum really showed me just how unequal I am in this country.

For those that are here, and debating on our behalf... It's not only appreciated, its a reminder that there are people in this country that don't believe I'm different or special or less than or deserving of separate rights but just like every other boring/regular person on this Island and should be treated as such.

endacl · 14-05-2015 01:27PM

Roger_007 wrote: »

I'm not going to support putting stuff in the constitution that shouldn't be there.

Very Irish answer. Take the ring road around the question...

Same Sex Marriage Referendum Mega Thread - MOD WARNING IN FIRST POST

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