Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Help Keep Boards Alive. Support us by going ad free today. See here: https://subscriptions.boards.ie/.
If we do not hit our goal we will be forced to close the site.

Current status: https://keepboardsalive.com/

Annual subs are best for most impact. If you are still undecided on going Ad Free - you can also donate using the Paypal Donate option. All contribution helps. Thank you.

Same Sex Marriage Referendum Mega Thread - MOD WARNING IN FIRST POST

1…2728303233…327

Comments

  • #872
    MrWalsh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,664 ✭✭✭MrWalsh


    Zen65 wrote: »
    There was never such an Ireland! If the revelation of scandals over the past few years has highlighted anything it is that our past was in reality very different from the way many people liked to portray it. We have been a nation that condoned the abuse of women and children at the hands of the state and religious orders because "the shame" of illegitimacy [sic] was too great for families to bear. We forced our Irish gay men & women to emigrate because they could never gain acceptance here, unless through fake marriages which imposed even more misery on men, women and children.

    It's convenient in many ways to blame the state and the church (and a lot of the blame does rest with them) . . . . but the truth is that our laws and our culture were just as culpable. We were so quick to condemn people for lifestyle choices which today we see as being perfectly sane and reasonable. This referendum is one more chance to bring compassion, equality and sanity to our country.

    We are still condoning the rape and abuse of children by an organisation that aided and abetted paedophiles - people are still going to church here even after everything that has come out.

    And what about the butchering of women during childbirth rather than limit their childbearing by doing a c section?

    As a society we have accepted and condoned all of the above.


  • #873
    Kiwi in IE
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,063 ✭✭✭Kiwi in IE


    MrWalsh wrote: »
    I saw a creepy new No poster this morning that showed a woman hugging a child, the message was about not depriving a child of its mother so vote no.

    Im fully expecting to see No posters with sad looking puppies and a message saying "Dont kill puppies! Vote No!"

    Well someone has said that they are voting no because currently one can marry with parental consent at 16 and 17 years of age and their concern is that if LGBT people are allowed to marry, then the number of people in the 16 to 17 year old age bracket who are eligible to marry will increase. This to be honest is about as relevant as voting no to save the puppies, the rainforests or the whales.


  • #874
    MrWalsh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,664 ✭✭✭MrWalsh


    Kiwi in IE wrote: »
    Well someone has said that they are voting no because currently one can marry with parental consent at 16 and 17 years of age and their concern is that if LGBT people are allowed to marry, then the number of people in the 16 to 17 year old age bracket who are eligible to marry will increase. This to be honest is about as relevant as voting no to save the puppies, the rainforests or the whales.

    Yes. Moronic irrelevant arguments abound.


  • #875
    Zen65
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,630 ✭✭✭Zen65


    MrWalsh wrote: »
    We are still condoning the rape and abuse of children by an organisation that aided and abetted paedophiles - people are still going to church here even after everything that has come out.

    Ahhh now, let's not become what we ourselves hold in disdain.

    Not all priests and bishops aided and abetted paedophiles in the church (very many never saw or heard of such actions taking place). People attend mass out of a sense of reverence towards their god, believing that this is more important than the sins of the priests. I would not consider attendance at church to be a sign of supporting the paedophiles any more than watching BBC is supporting the actions of Jimmy Saville and his fellow paedophile travellers.

    Back on topic though . . . how do we mobilise people to vote (in the first instance) and especially vote for change?


  • #876
    SireOfSeth
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 340 ✭✭SireOfSeth


    Kiwi in IE wrote: »
    Well someone has said that they are voting no because currently one can marry with parental consent at 16 and 17 years of age and their concern is that if LGBT people are allowed to marry, then the number of people in the 16 to 17 year old age bracket who are eligible to marry will increase. This to be honest is about as relevant as voting no to save the puppies, the rainforests or the whales.

    I know. That person/bigot is looking for every and any excuse to validate his(her?) desire to vote no.


  • Advertisement
  • #877
    MrWalsh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,664 ✭✭✭MrWalsh


    Zen65 wrote: »
    Not all priests and bishops aided and abetted paedophiles in the church (very many never saw or heard of such actions taking place).

    Off topic, but if I was part of an organisation that was exposed in that way I would leave so as not to sully myself by association! Staying is quietly supporting it (the organisation).

    But back on topic, vote early and vote often!


  • #878
    MrWalsh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,664 ✭✭✭MrWalsh


    SireOfSeth wrote: »
    I know. That person/bigot is looking for every and any excuse to validate his(her?) desire to vote no.

    Theyre just attention seeking so will say anything to have posters respond, the more outrageous the better. They are not engaging in any discussion or responding to any refutation. They have gone from making a ridiculous claim about the incoherence of the word change to the constitution to some verbose and nonsensical pseudo legal worries to it being a waste of time to there being more important things to vote on and currently the under 17 nonsense - who knows whats next?


  • #879
    floggg
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,821 ✭✭✭floggg


    One eyed Jack wrote: »
    I asked you let me know if the five minutes on the doorstep ever works to change anyone's opinion, and you present a high profile GAA player as evidence that he thought about it from the perspective of his children. Well I guess that's me told. You forgot to quote this particular part though -




    Which is where I'm coming from.





    Wow! And yet we have been involved in how many threads now on this issue over the last few months, and not in my memory at least has there ever been one poster who changed their mind from a no vote to a yes vote, and yet you claim you can do it in a few minutes conversation by simply debunking the arguments from the no campaign? Well, I know it's rude to speculate about people's identities on here but Keith Barry springs to mind tbh...





    Well I would say being able to rise above their crap and run a positive campaign is a better strategy than allowing yourself to be dragged down into a mud flinging match that just descends into petty snipes at the opposition (it's one of the reasons I've avoided all these "televised debates" on the issue).





    Like it or not, I see it as a discussion, a discussion that's been going on long before a lot of the voters the yes campaign are depending on were even born. I still believe that we can win this referendum, but I just don't like the way it's become yet another politicised 'debate', when by more people's standards, it's an issue for society as a whole, and not just a political issue.

    Perhaps read back over your post before getting snarky:
    One eyed Jack wrote: »
    You're asking people to empathise with a concept that's more than just a simple hypothesis, that they have no experience of, and you're asking them to see something from your perspective about their own children. In case you hadn't noticed, people are very protective of their children and don't like them being used to prick their consciences. Has that whole hypothetical ever actually worked on anyone to change their minds? Let me know if it ever does, because unless people experience something for themselves, the odds are far more likely that they won't possibly come near imagining such a simplistic hypothesis.

    There is a difference between somebody who is confused on the issues because of the deliberate red herring and scare mongering tactics of the no side, and a firm no voter (the ones usually engaging in the red herring and scare mongering tactics).

    Somebody who is confused by their message about children, surrogacy etc and inclined to vote no as a result (and there are lots of those unfortunately) can be brought back to a yes by clarifying the issue and pointing to the reputable entities confirming the position.

    They aren't the type of posters engaging here - the no posters engaging here are committed to their position irregardless of whatever argument might be put forward.

    Will you win all of the confused voters? No.

    But you will win some back by educating them. And every vote counts. I

    If you didn't counter the irrelevant and incorrect claims being made that class of confused voters will increase, not decrease. There are soft yes which we need to protect as much as we need to win over no's or undecideds.

    If the no side where to say a Yes vote will lead to commercial surrogacy (for example), and nobody corrects the position a lot of people will start to accept there is some truth to it.

    It's great that you are such an idealist in terms of campaign strategy. But honestly, if sticking to your own message and ignoring the other side entirely was an effective strategy, don't you think there would be somebody somewhere doing it (in a campaign with broadly equal access to airwaves and print media).

    Funnily enough, I don't know of one campaign which ever has.


  • #880
    Zen65
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,630 ✭✭✭Zen65


    MrWalsh wrote: »
    Off topic, but if I was part of an organisation that was exposed in that way I would leave so as not to sully myself by association! Staying is quietly supporting it (the organisation).

    (Off topic, but interesting comparison)
    Some did, but most had no other skills with which to make a living, and the prospects of employment for an escapee priest are not so good in the current environment. Similar to the fear of change that drives many to vote NO, many priests fear they could not survive outside the institution which is all they have experienced since their teens.


  • #881
    MrWalsh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,664 ✭✭✭MrWalsh


    Zen65 wrote: »
    (Off topic, but interesting comparison)
    Some did, but most had no other skills with which to make a living, and the prospects of employment for an escapee priest are not so good in the current environment. Similar to the fear of change that drives many to vote NO, many priests fear they could not survive outside the institution which is all they have experienced since their teens.

    Actually thats not true at all, most priests are well educated and the revelations about the cover ups in the church happened before the celtic tiger. Plus in this country you wont starve as there is social welfare.

    Sorry, by staying they supported the evil.


  • Advertisement
  • #882
    Zen65
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,630 ✭✭✭Zen65


    floggg wrote: »
    But you will win some back by educating them. And every vote counts. I

    Yes, I agree and I've had first-hand experience of this. A friend of mine was very much confused by the prospect of an increase in the number of children being adopted by SSM couples was inclined to vote know. After some lengthy discussions (which involved her going off and researching the legislative position) she came back and agreed that there would be no impact. What astounded her was the fact that the NO campaign were (in her eyes) allowed to spout this nonsense relatively unchallenged (she's not a Boardsie).


  • #883
    Slicemeister
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,526 ✭✭✭Slicemeister


    Wonder will Mothers Day or Fathers Day be a thing of the past in years to come?


  • #884
    Zen65
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,630 ✭✭✭Zen65


    MrWalsh wrote: »
    Actually thats not true at all, most priests are well educated and the revelations about the cover ups in the church happened before the celtic tiger.

    We should take this up offline :)


  • #885
    floggg
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,821 ✭✭✭floggg


    Zen65 wrote: »
    Ahhh now, let's not become what we ourselves hold in disdain.

    Not all priests and bishops aided and abetted paedophiles in the church (very many never saw or heard of such actions taking place). People attend mass out of a sense of reverence towards their god, believing that this is more important than the sins of the priests. I would not consider attendance at church to be a sign of supporting the paedophiles any more than watching BBC is supporting the actions of Jimmy Saville and his fellow paedophile travellers.

    Back on topic though . . . how do we mobilise people to vote (in the first instance) and especially vote for change?

    Contact friends and family, engage with them and stress the importance of (a) a yes vote; and (b) actually getting out on the day.

    Rinse and repeat till you have spoken to everybody within your family/social circles.


  • #886
    Zen65
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,630 ✭✭✭Zen65


    Slicemeister wrote: »
    Wonder will Mothers Day or Fathers Day be a thing of the past in years to come?

    Oh dear . . . .

    You can be sure that the Hallmark company will find a way to turn this into greater sales of Mothers' and Fathers' Day cards. There may even be another special day or two in the calendar.

    Commerce is unlike society in that it sees opportunity in almost every change!


  • #887
    Bannasidhe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,218 ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    Slicemeister wrote: »
    Wonder will Mothers Day or Fathers Day be a thing of the past in years to come?

    Beeeecaaaussseee no one will have either one or the other or two of one or one of each just like happens now....? :confused:


  • #888
    Bannasidhe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,218 ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    Zen65 wrote: »
    Oh dear . . . .

    You can be sure that the Hallmark company will find a way to turn this into greater sales of Mothers' and Fathers' Day cards. There may even be another special day or two in the calendar.

    Commerce is unlike society in that it sees opportunity in almost every change!

    Looking forward to the Happy Test Tube Day cards.

    :pac:


  • #889
    Zen65
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,630 ✭✭✭Zen65


    floggg wrote: »
    Co
    Rinse and repeat till you have spoken to everybody within your family/social circles.

    Was shocked this weekend to discover at least one older sibling leaning towards NO on basis of some nonsense she read three years ago. At times I forget how conservative my generation can be.


  • #890
    floggg
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,821 ✭✭✭floggg


    Slicemeister wrote: »
    Wonder will Mothers Day or Fathers Day be a thing of the past in years to come?

    Hi Fidelma.

    Sorry, but you got a whole thread to yourself on this nonsense (before you had to apologise for lying) so perhaps lets not go there again.

    Didn't you get enough laughs at your expense the first time round?


  • #891
    traprunner
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,887 ✭✭✭traprunner


    Slicemeister wrote: »
    Wonder will Mothers Day or Fathers Day be a thing of the past in years to come?

    What's that got to do with the price of spuds?


  • Advertisement
  • #892
    floggg
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,821 ✭✭✭floggg


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    Beeeecaaaussseee no one will have either one or the other or two of one or one of each just like happens now....? :confused:

    We are going to change to to Parent A and Parent B day.

    Single parents get to play both roles, so now they will only be under appreciated for 363 days a year.


  • #893
    Slicemeister
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,526 ✭✭✭Slicemeister


    floggg wrote: »
    Hi Fidelma.

    Sorry, but you got a whole thread to yourself on this nonsense (before you had to apologise for lying) so perhaps lets not go there again.

    Didn't you get enough laughs at your expense the first time round?

    You've got me mixed up for someone else. Haven't the foggiest what you're on about.


  • #894
    Baggy Trousers
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,816 ✭✭✭Baggy Trousers


    Maybe it's an exception but over the weekend I polled 3 of my friends who would be fairly socially conscious and all 3 said they were voting No. I was shocked. This vote will be tight!


  • #895
    Bannasidhe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,218 ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    traprunner wrote: »
    What's that got to do with the price of spuds?

    More to the point will it bring down the price of spuds?
    They are after getting shocking expensive even in Aldi.


  • #896
    lazygal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    Deleted User wrote: »
    We raised a child as an atheist here (he's now 18). It went fine. He went to a non-religious primary school. It was fine. He went to a denominational secondary school. It was fine, and the school certainly does not promote the idea that marriage equality is wrong or that being gay is a disorder.

    It's easier to raise a child in a non-religious way in Dublin, but it's getting easier in most other places too, mainly because of the presence of Educate Together. Also, the vast majority of my friends and workmates are Catholic, and the notion of people being atheists and raising their kids as atheists didn't exactly raise all that many eyebrows among them.

    Like I said, it would be disappointing if there were a No vote, but I really do think it's a bit OTT to suggest you'd abandon the country because of it.

    We wouldn't abandon the country for this reason alone. As I said, we'd add to our reasons for why we might move abroad. The recent case of a brain dead pregnant woman kept alive while her brain rotted away certainly made us think about the realities of me being pregnant again in this country. Combined with friends of ours living abroad who want their marriage recognised here should they return to Ireland and the general religious centred education system that thinks a child coming to know god is the most important subject, a vote against equality wouldn't really give us a warm fuzzy feeling about this country and raising our children here.

    BTW I'm not entirely comfortable with the 'religious' elements of the educate together model and the learn together programme. Feedback from some parents on it that I've heard makes me feel the ET schools are complicit in the Dept of Ed 'kids need to know about god' rule rather than offering a properly secular education.


  • #897
    floggg
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,821 ✭✭✭floggg


    Slicemeister wrote: »
    You've got me mixed up for someone else. Haven't the foggiest what you're on about.

    Sure Fidelma, sure

    (See here - http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057397564)


  • #898
    Slicemeister
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,526 ✭✭✭Slicemeister


    traprunner wrote: »
    What's that got to do with the price of spuds?

    Just a genuine question. Will SSM couples discriminate against each other down the line? I didn't rob ye at gunpoint jaysus.


  • #899
    Slicemeister
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,526 ✭✭✭Slicemeister


    floggg wrote: »
    Sure Fidelma, sure

    (See here - http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057397564)

    Reported. An apology would've sufficed.


  • #900
    Kiwi in IE
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,063 ✭✭✭Kiwi in IE


    Slicemeister wrote: »
    Wonder will Mothers Day or Fathers Day be a thing of the past in years to come?

    Yes of course. Wedding anniversaries will be banned too because marriage won't be the same anymore. Anyone caught celebrating one will immediately have their parents confiscated and will no longer be entitled to a mother and a father.


  • Advertisement
  • #901
    MonkeyTennis
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,095 ✭✭✭MonkeyTennis


    What madness is this?


This discussion has been closed.
Advertisement