Same Sex Marriage Referendum Mega Thread - MOD WARNING IN FIRST POST

Lt J.R. Bell · 08-05-2015 06:09PM

222233 wrote: »

Probably one of the reasons teen pregnancy and STI rates are so high.

Yeah, teenagers really listen to their parents. Good one :rolleyes:

Like, even the teenager parent, was , like, never told by their parent(s)/guardian, go on the pill/wear a johnnie or, stop acting like a town bike, or refrain from sexual activities

eviltwin · 08-05-2015 06:12PM

jobbridge4life wrote: »

But what if he starts liking Madonna? The poor child.:eek:

Madonna I can live with, if he starts listening to Streisand there will be killings

jimdublin15 · 08-05-2015 06:13PM

Lt J.R. Bell wrote: »

I do not think anyone would stop or try to stop a gay person from raising or playing a role in the life of their own flesh and blood. Even if that meant the gay partner sharing responsibilities , if the other biological parent is a bum or dead

Two Gay people can both be the biological parent.

08-05-2015 06:14PM

Lt J.R. Bell wrote: »

Yeah, teenagers really listen to their parents. Good one :rolleyes:

Like, even the teenager parent, was , like, never told by their parent(s)/guardian, go on the pill/wear a johnnie or, stop acting like a town bike, or refrain from sexual activities

You have a fantastic idea, let your child hear it from there peers - things like "you can't get pregnant if you haven't gotten your first period", or even better let your child get excluded because they don't understand what sex is and when "shifting" starts let them feel ashamed that they are feeling something that they can't explain because their parent(s) never told them how there bodies were changing..

LHow is your sexually uneducated child going to know when they need to say "NO"

I said probably on of the reasons btw not the only reason

eviltwin · 08-05-2015 06:17PM

Lt J.R. Bell wrote: »

Yeah, teenagers really listen to their parents. Good one :rolleyes:

Like, even the teenager parent, was , like, never told by their parent(s)/guardian, go on the pill/wear a johnnie or, stop acting like a town bike, or refrain from sexual activities

You can't stop teens being teens and doing what they are biologically made to do and you can't stop them being all secretive and embarrassed to get advice from their parents but the more open you are with them the more likely they are to be open back. Talk to your kids about sex from an early age, get rid of the stigma, it's your job as a parent to educate your kids, that includes sexual education too.

Lt J.R. Bell · 08-05-2015 06:20PM

jobbridge4life wrote: »

You can't actually be serious? Do you have the faintest concept of biology?

You actually have children ? You suggesting all 13 year olds, while might be discovering the joys of Pam and her 5 sisters and talking about sex are all actually doing it?

We live in once Catholic Country, be honest, how many of ye at the age of 13 learnt about the birds and the bees from talking to the parents? Or, was it like most people, via pornos or from friends (not saying that is a good thing or that that should be repeated)

I never said , don't talk about it (and, strictly speaking the context was about gays). I said one wouldn't go out of their way to talk about it. Of course the mothers have to talk to their daughter about their physical developments that will start at 11 +

I never said, if the child comes to you, or if you observe some disturbing behaviour (eg teacher's complaints) that you don't answer the child's questions

A big difference between going out of one's way v dealing with the situation where the child comes up to you and asks questions. But, hey, don't let facts get in the way of a good rant.

What I am saying is, let children be children, talk about it if or when they are ready or ask

jobbridge4life wrote: »

The Catholioc Church? Iona? You?

Oh, oh no you didn't . Oh snap

I'm a late 1980-1990's kid. Never paid heed to them

PC Brigade, Bleeding Heart Liberals? You?

Funny how you didn't agree or quote the part where I said that the parent is entitled to educate their child according to their religious and cultural beliefs (whether its atheists , liberal etc)

Your comment looks more a case of whataboutery, and does not seem to confirm that you oppose any group trying to tell you what to think or how to educate your child

Bannasidhe · 08-05-2015 06:22PM

Lt J.R. Bell wrote: »

I do not think anyone would stop or try to stop a gay person from raising or playing a role in the life of their own flesh and blood. Even if that meant the gay partner sharing responsibilities , if the other biological parent is a bum or dead

What harm do you believe adoptive gay parents will do to children that renders them unsuitable?

Lt J.R. Bell · 08-05-2015 06:26PM

eviltwin wrote: »

You can't stop teens being teens and doing what they are biologically made to do and you can't stop them being all secretive and embarrassed to get advice from their parents but the more open you are with them the more likely they are to be open back. Talk to your kids about sex from an early age, get rid of the stigma, it's your job as a parent to educate your kids, that includes sexual education too.

Don't disagree with that. In fact I said parents to talk to them, . Pity you missed the point , slightly

That still does nothing to prevent, as one poster said, increase in teenage pregnancies or STI (blamed because parents don't talk to the kid - I said many do,sarcastically)

If a kid does not talk about gays, why would a parent feel the need to go out of their way to talk about gays (going back to the original point raised by another)

One eyed Jack · 08-05-2015 06:28PM

Lt J.R. Bell wrote: »

But, hey, don't let facts get in the way of a good rant.

Indeed.

Your comment looks more a case of whataboutery

Much of the discussion of the last few pages has had nothing to do with marriage equality in fairness.

08-05-2015 06:28PM

Lt J.R. Bell wrote: »

Don't disagree with that. In fact I said parents to talk to them, . Pity you missed the point , slightly

That still does nothing to prevent, as one poster said, increase in teenage pregnancies or STI (blamed because parents don't talk to the kid - I said many do,sarcastically)

If a kid does not talk about gays, why would a parent feel the need to go out of their way to talk about gays (going back to the original point raised by another)

Actually if teens feel they can be open about sex then they can talk to their parents, a girl can not visit a doctor under the age of 16 without a guardian to get a prescription for the pill.

Sorry this is off topic. Im done.

Lt J.R. Bell · 08-05-2015 06:28PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

What harm do you believe adoptive gay parents will do to children that renders them unsuitable?

Like a broken record here. They are not a mother and father. If a mother and father are available , they should be considered , first

You know that if anyone answered that properly, they would be banned from this site.

jimdublin15 · 08-05-2015 06:29PM

Lt J.R. Bell wrote: »

jobbridge4life wrote: »

Funny how you didn't agree or quote the part where I said that the parent is entitled to educate their child according to their religious and cultural beliefs (whether its atheists , liberal etc)

It's true, and to be honest as a parent it's fine to have that right, to have your own views and educate your own as you wish. But by not educating them on the world around them and the topic's of sex is just foolish in my opinion. I think it's setting them up for failure by not talking to them and they are going to be confronted with a number of other topics whether or not you educate them, and if they are more educated on the topics they might handle it better then being total ignorant.

Were all way off topic of Same sex Marriage at this stage.

Lt J.R. Bell · 08-05-2015 06:30PM

222233 wrote: »

Actually if teens feel they can be open about sex then they can talk to their parents, a girl can not visit a doctor under the age of 16 without a guardian to get a prescription for the pill.

Sorry this is off topic. Im done.

Yeah , it is off topic, intentionally . Doesn't even touch on the context of my original statement

08-05-2015 06:30PM

Lt J.R. Bell wrote: »

Like a broken record here. They are not a mother and father. If a mother and father are available , they should be considered , first

You know that if anyone answered that properly, they would be banned from this site.

So if a single mother has a baby, it should be the right of a two parent male and female couple to have more rights to have a child than her ?

Same relates to same sex

eviltwin · 08-05-2015 06:30PM

Lt J.R. Bell wrote: »

Don't disagree with that. In fact I said parents to talk to them, . Pity you missed the point , slightly

That still does nothing to prevent, as one poster said, increase in teenage pregnancies or STI (blamed because parents don't talk to the kid - I said many do,sarcastically)

If a kid does not talk about gays, why would a parent feel the need to go out of their way to talk about gays (going back to the original point raised by another)

Well that's kind of what education is, teaching things they may not know. Obviously in an age appropriate way. Education also needs to be factually correct and unbiased. There's no point having the sex talk with your kids if it's going to be drowning in morality.

Lt J.R. Bell · 08-05-2015 06:38PM

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Much of the discussion of the last few pages has had nothing to do with marriage equality in fairness.

Just shows you that marriage, in Ireland , means more than signing a document and visit to the registry or church , then, doesn't it?. (ie children even if some of it is now moot ) (yes obviously divorce etc, which funny enough is often a central issue in divorce cases) However, right or wrong that attitude is.

Sofiztikated · 08-05-2015 06:40PM

Lt J.R. Bell wrote: »

Like a broken record here. They are not a mother and father. If a mother and father are available , they should be considered , first

You know that if anyone answered that properly, they would be banned from this site.

If you can answer it, without resorting to baseless, unfounded homophobia, then no, you won't be banned.

Lt J.R. Bell · 08-05-2015 06:42PM

eviltwin wrote: »

Well that's kind of what education is, teaching things they may not know. Obviously in an age appropriate way. Education also needs to be factually correct and unbiased. There's no point having the sex talk with your kids if it's going to be drowning in morality.

Age appropriateness, bingo!

Drowning in morality, well that is a clash between cultures , isn't it? (don't advocate telling a child that gays are evil etc, either by going out of your way to do so or when asked, not worth the hassle, we live in a PC world, possibly for the better actually )

Give over, when is "education" ever truly "factually correct and unbiased" lol

Why on earth would an ardent atheist "educate" their child on Catholicism? Would they avoid the usual sound bites of "sky fairies" etc

Lt J.R. Bell · 08-05-2015 06:44PM

Sofiztikated wrote: »

If you can answer it, without resorting to baseless, unfounded homophobia, then no, you won't be banned.

Get real, anything that would be said would be denied, rejected out of hand and classed as homophobia no matter what. On que Panti Bliss - John Watters tosh.

oh you are mean and selfish, boom , homophobe, bigot

Since when did you become a moderator?

What makes you the judge of what is unfounded? Ah, Freedom of Speech, so long as you agree with them, it's all good .

Going back to the point :
Do you , or do you not accept, that it would be best, if possible (and only if possible) that a child should have the care and company of a mother and father ? If not, why?

Gannicus · 08-05-2015 06:53PM

Hyzepher wrote: »

If those in favour of polygamy wanted to get married they'd be in favour of ssm

I suspect polygamists aren't interested in marriage - ties them down too much

Funny you say that. I was listening to an interview about it the referendum and up shot a polygamist who says that it should be a referendum to allow anyone marry whoever they want regardless of how many people one person is married to.

Turtyturd · 08-05-2015 06:55PM

Lt J.R. Bell wrote: »

Do you , or do you not accept, that it would be best, if possible (and only if possible) that a child should have the care and company of a mother and father ? If not, why?

What's the argument for why that would be the best situation?

G_R · 08-05-2015 06:58PM

Mod

Can we start discussing the SSM referendum instead of parenting techniques now? Has literally nothing to do with the the topic at hand.

Please stick to the topic at hand

08-05-2015 07:00PM

Lt J.R. Bell wrote: »

Do you , or do you not accept, that it would be best, if possible (and only if possible) that a child should have the care and company of a mother and father ? If not, why?

The no side are confused because one minute it was their "biological mother and father" and now this has been changed to just "mother and father", seems as though their is no real argument about parents from nay sayers as long as it isn't two same sex people.

Trudiha · 08-05-2015 07:03PM

Lt J.R. Bell wrote: »

Going back to the point :
Do you , or do you not accept, that it would be best, if possible (and only if possible) that a child should have the care and company of a mother and father ? If not, why?

No. There is no evidence that kids have significantly better outcomes because of the gender of their parents. The children of lesbians are very slightly better off but that probably has more to do with the economic status of the couple than gender.

Single parents who aren't economically disadvantaged have the same level of outcomes as couples, both gay and straight.

The single most positive thing you can do for a child is to make sure that they don't experience poverty.

Trudiha · 08-05-2015 07:06PM

Lt J.R. Bell wrote: »

You know that if anyone answered that properly, they would be banned from this site.

Eighty seven percent of sex offenders self identify as male and heterosexual. Obviously not all straight men are sex offenderes but most sex offenders are straight men.

eviltwin · 08-05-2015 07:08PM

Lt J.R. Bell wrote: »

Going back to the point :
Do you , or do you not accept, that it would be best, if possible (and only if possible) that a child should have the care and company of a mother and father ? If not, why?

No. I'm thinking of my own family where there is a mother and father and there is nothing each of us bring to the table that the other doesn't or can't do. There is still a gender stereotype about the type of roles parents fulfil and while that might be true for some families there is no need for it. And if a gay couple does feel they need the input of someone from the opposite sex there is always going to be a sibling, friend available to help.

Lt J.R. Bell · 08-05-2015 07:17PM

Trudiha wrote: »

No. There is no evidence that kids have significantly better outcomes because of the gender of their parents. The children of lesbians are very slightly better off but that probably has more to do with the economic status of the couple than gender.

Single parents who aren't economically disadvantaged have the same level of outcomes as couples, both gay and straight.

The single most positive thing you can do for a child is to make sure that they don't experience poverty.

So it's about money then? Material goods? Whose got more money?

A lot of hetrophobics here, lol

Any chance you have any stats, (hey don't doubt that the gays are loaded)

One eyed Jack · 08-05-2015 07:20PM

Lt J.R. Bell wrote: »

Just shows you that marriage, in Ireland , means more than signing a document and visit to the registry or church , then, doesn't it?. (ie children even if some of it is now moot ) (yes obviously divorce etc, which funny enough is often a central issue in divorce cases) However, right or wrong that attitude is.

No? It doesn't at all.

The family is the fundamental unit of society and currently that family unit is recognised as one man and one woman in union and given the protection of the State through the institution of Civil Marriage.

The only people difference in criteria between those couples who have the opportunity to enter into Civil Marriage and be recognised by the State as a family, at the moment, are opposite sex couples. This is discrimination against couples of the same sex, who are currently not eligible to enter into Civil Marriage, and can therefore never be recognised by the State as a family.

You already know this because you yourself linked to the case law earlier in which the Supreme Court declared that there was no recognition of same sex couples as a 'de facto' family in Irish legislation (J.McD v P.L. [2010]). Even in the case of a Civil Partnership, protections provided to civil partners in respect of the shared home make no reference to the accommodation needs of children as a relevant criterion.

The Children and Family Relationship Act addresses guardianship and adoption concerns, but it doesn't still recognise a same sex couple as a family. The Civil Partnership Act makes no references to children and still does not recognise a same sex couple as a family. The only way a same sex couple can be recognised as a family by the State is through the Institution of Civil Marriage, which is currently denied to them because a same sex couple do not meet the criteria that they must be of opposite sex. The referendum proposed an amendment to the Irish Constitution which would allow same sex couples the same opportunity to avail of Civil Marriage as opposite sex couples, ie -

"Marriage may be contracted in accordance with law by two persons without distinction as to their sex".

08-05-2015 07:21PM

http://ionainstitute.ie/index.php?id=3934
Have a look ...

So the no side is just homophobia, nothing else

Lt J.R. Bell · 08-05-2015 07:24PM

Trudiha wrote: »

Eighty seven percent of sex offenders self identify as male and heterosexual. Obviously not all straight men are sex offenderes but most sex offenders are straight men.

Where did I suggest gays = sex offenders?

Since we are on the issue, which you brought up

I didn't know that the Irish Criminal System kept those kind of stats. Care to produce them? Do the Priest identify themselves as straight ? (not a reason to oppose gays by the way )

Same Sex Marriage Referendum Mega Thread - MOD WARNING IN FIRST POST

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