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How will you vote in the Marriage Equality referendum? Mod Note Post 1

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Comments

  • #9002
    aloyisious
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,000 ✭✭✭✭aloyisious


    gravehold wrote: »
    The person complaining about free speech said the posters on the poles where of equal amount, if the yes side can afford it without being a proxy Battlefield I can't see why the side would not be able to.

    The YES side can't afford posters for poles, we simply don't have the funding that the Iona Institute and other Vote No groups have. We've had make do with A4 size posters (some printed at homes of supporters) for premises and business's that will accept them, otherwise it's standard sized leaflets. We're using fundraising events at local level to pay for them. All of the "Vote Yes" posters on poles (bar one set, that of the Anti Austerity Alliance) are from political parties.

    Edit on the All posters - political parties piece, I don't know if the childrens charities have any up.


  • #9003
    swampgas
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,617 ✭✭✭swampgas


    SpaceTime wrote: »
    I've often wondered if that could be used to force the state to pay or nullify a debt or mortgage. If said debt forced the mother to "neglect her duties in the home"

    Hmmm, the bit of the constitution in question has the wonderful weasel word "endeavour" in it:
    The State shall, therefore, endeavour to ensure that mothers shall not be obliged by economic necessity to engage in labour to the neglect of their duties in the home.

    The state is not actually obliged to ensure anything at all, just to "endeavour" to ensure it, which could be covered by setting up a study group with a view to considering legislation at some distant point in the future.

    I wouldn't start a business offering debt relief to financially pressed mothers on the back of it anyway.


  • #9004
    aloyisious
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,000 ✭✭✭✭aloyisious


    gravehold wrote: »
    If they are stupid enough to want to marry they should be allowed they are consenting adults, this referendum doesn't go far enough it still discrminates against polygamous consenting adults.

    It's not my place to say which consenting adults should be allowed to marry

    By voting yes or no, you will be saying which consenting adults should be allowed to marry, as will all other voters who vote. So. to avoid backing either side, a voter would be better off not voting.


  • #9005
    aloyisious
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,000 ✭✭✭✭aloyisious


    gravehold wrote: »
    But a gay man can still marry a woman atm so he is just as equal. Sure he doesn't get to be in the marraige he wants but is equal.

    A big problem is that such a marriage is a sham, a lie, and not something that anyone with a shred of cred can see is equal for the woman, let alone him. It denies her the husband she thought she was getting. It denies him actual freedom to be what he is She ain't getting the real deal, no matter if he can live, eat, talk and sleep with her, and make her pregnant.

    There's a friend of mine who went that route and then after having children with his missus, eventually came out and told her the truth. They went for divorce and he was told by the state that as he was gay, the marriage (from their P.O.V) was null and void from day one, it never existed as he had hidden the fact he was gay from her and it.


  • #9006
    aloyisious
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,000 ✭✭✭✭aloyisious


    smash wrote: »
    This is true:
    The State pledges itself to guard with special care the institution of Marriage, on which the Family is founded


    This is not true:

    In particular, the State recognises that by her life within the home, woman gives to the State a support without which the common good cannot be achieved.

    The State shall, therefore, endeavour to ensure that mothers shall not be obliged by economic necessity to engage in labour to the neglect of their duties in the home.

    These are the only gender based statements in Article 41. The article does not suggest that a woman(or man) is required for marriage or a family to be qualified, or that either gender is an essential part.

    It also does not state that children are what make a family.


    To read it how you read it, is to misrepresent what it says.

    The cute hoor thing about the wording of the section is the way in line one (1) it mentions "the woman". In line two (2) it mention's "the mother". The reading of them, at first go, gives one the impression that they are one and the same. The baby has been slipped into the equation, unseen, by the use of the word "mother". It's implicit that the woman was married, made pregnant by her husband and gave birth. Lo and behold the 1937 version of the family. Even the words "man" or "husband" are not used, just spouse.


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  • #9007
    SpaceTime
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,088 ✭✭✭SpaceTime


    Hyzepher wrote: »
    It's funny how children have a more pragmatic viewpoint on things. They are generally void of prejudice and usually have a better understanding of what is right - albeit from a high level viewpoint.

    I think though people need to understand prejudice and what it is.

    For evolutionary reasons, your brain tends to take shortcuts and lump things together for the sake of avoiding needing to parse and think about a particular thing. Your brain's all about efficiency, saving time on decisions, saving energy, etc etc.

    Some of those prejudices are handed down through learning from society (including family, schools, religious communities, media etc) and others may be formed yourself.

    So, prejudice is most definitely a learned behaviour.
    Overcoming it is about opening your mind and thinking about a particular issue, not just letting your brain take a learnt shortcut.

    It's like the way some people have a totally inexplicable and irrational fear of something completely normal like for example a cat or a dog. This is often based on something someone said to them about cats/dogs when they were a kid or a weird experience around them.

    Having prejudices about gay people, black people, catholics, protestants, French people, British people, Irish people, foreigners in general (insert group here) is exactly the same process.

    Loads of decisions we make are automatic and based on learnt sets of prejudices where a decision is made without any real thought whatsoever.

    I genuinely think it's a sign of much greater intellect to be able to get around prejudice in your own mind and think about everything on its own merit rather than just taking these mental short cuts and lumping things together in some kind of rather primitive Pavlovian response.

    Whether it's a fear of custard or homophobia, you need to look at why you're not able to get past that.

    What the No side is doing which is really nasty is trying to build a prejudice against gay marriage by linking it to fears about all sorts of other things. That's precisely what groups like this have always done.

    If you look back in history, Irish catholics faced this before emancipation and after it for a long time too.
    Women faced it during the suffragette era and their struggle for the vote, and again they suffered on going prejudice afterwards through sexism in the workplace etc.
    Black people faced this in the US and still face it today as can be evidenced by police shooting scandals etc.

    So, what you're really being asked is to think about gay marriage and see if you can put whatever prejudices you have to one side and see the facts rather than a load of crapology being stirred up by someone who is trying to play on fear of the unknown.


  • #9008
    SpaceTime
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,088 ✭✭✭SpaceTime


    Also:

    The clock has really started to tick!

    Polling cards hit the door mat in our house this morning.


  • #9009
    Bannasidhe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,218 ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    A poster who is repeating the same 'divils advocate' red herrings over and over and over again has been allowed a grave hold on this thread and is successfully dragging it off topic.

    I am exercising my free speech by scrolling past that poster's posts.


  • #9010
    Hyzepher
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 4,678 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hyzepher


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    A poster who is repeating the same 'divils advocate' red herrings over and over and over again has been allowed a grave hold on this thread and is successfully dragging it off topic.

    I am exercising my free speech by scrolling past that poster's posts.

    Love the thought put into the wording of this post :)


  • #9011
    timetogo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 990 ✭✭✭timetogo


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    I am exercising my free speech by scrolling past that poster's posts.

    Click on users name and click on Add X to ignore list. Speeds up your use of boards as you spend less time reading crap.


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  • #9012
    Bannasidhe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,218 ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    Did someone say some people were bullying other people?

    https://twitter.com/theapplefarmer/status/596257807541923840


  • #9013
    SpaceTime
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,088 ✭✭✭SpaceTime


    It's quite likely very popular!

    It's just one letter from a psycho and if he's caught on CCTV throwing anything at the window, this letter will just add to the weight of the writer's sentencing as it's clearly premeditated and planned.

    One psycho's rantings does not mean much about public opinion.


  • #9014
    MrWalsh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,664 ✭✭✭MrWalsh


    I got left a lovely note on my car saying the person was really pleased I was showing my support and if I needed any help campaigning to give them a shout.


  • #9015
    Bannasidhe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,218 ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    SpaceTime wrote: »
    The 'Divil's advocate' is more of a Kerry thing though isn't it?

    Don't you start! :mad:


  • #9016
    galljga1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,938 ✭✭✭galljga1


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    Did someone say some people were bullying other people?

    https://twitter.com/theapplefarmer/status/596257807541923840

    David is getting desperate.


  • #9017
    gravehold
    Closed Accounts Posts: 912 ✭✭✭gravehold


    SpaceTime wrote: »
    &



    I hope you're not referring to my rather long winded post on prejudice...

    On second thoughts: Forget it!

    I'm not really bothered posting here anymore.

    I've high BP as it stands and could do without this.

    Came down he is talking about me hence the "grave hold" comment. Not even I am taking offence at this


  • #9018
    SpaceTime
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,088 ✭✭✭SpaceTime


    gravehold wrote: »
    Came down he is talking about me hence the "grave hold" comment. Not even I am taking offence at this

    I'm a bit touchy this morning.

    I got a load of abuse on Twitter earlier on from some nutters in America for RT ing a yes message.


  • #9019
    Bannasidhe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,218 ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    SpaceTime wrote: »
    &



    I hope you're not referring to my rather long winded post on prejudice...

    On second thoughts: Forget it!

    I'm not really bothered posting here anymore.

    I've high BP as it stands and could do without this.

    :confused:

    seriously??


  • #9020
    SpaceTime
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,088 ✭✭✭SpaceTime


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    :confused:

    seriously??

    See above: I've been fending off some really seriously nasty tweets from the US all morning.

    I'm in pretty foul humor. Apologies!


  • #9021
    gravehold
    Closed Accounts Posts: 912 ✭✭✭gravehold


    SpaceTime wrote: »
    I'm a bit touchy this morning.

    I got a load of abuse on Twitter earlier on from some nutters in America for RT ing a yes message.

    Might be best to turn off the pc and go outside it's a nice day. You health is more important then posting on the Internet, relax recuperate and come back tomorrow if you feel better


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  • #9022
    Hyzepher
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 4,678 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hyzepher


    SpaceTime wrote: »
    See above: I've been fending off some really seriously nasty tweets from the US all morning.

    I'm in pretty foul humor. Apologies!

    u ok hun?

    ;)


  • #9023
    SpaceTime
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,088 ✭✭✭SpaceTime


    gravehold wrote: »
    Might be best to turn off the pc and go outside it's a nice day. You health is more important then posting on the Internet, relax recuperate and come back tomorrow if you feel better

    It came into a work account.
    No choice but to deal with and clean up unfortunately.


  • #9024
    Rightwing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,101 ✭✭✭Rightwing


    Much ado about thing these 2 referenda. Waste of taxpayers' cash.


  • #9025
    gravehold
    Closed Accounts Posts: 912 ✭✭✭gravehold


    SpaceTime wrote: »
    It came into a work account.
    No choice but to deal with and clean up unfortunately.

    Not trying to make it worse but you shouldn't bring politics into you work accounts, can you get some else to take over for the rest of the day.


  • #9026
    jobbridge4life
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,759 ✭✭✭jobbridge4life


    Rightwing wrote: »
    Much ado about thing these 2 referenda. Waste of taxpayers' cash.

    You tax me like everyone else. Treat me like everyone else.


  • #9027
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,809 ✭✭✭✭smash


    gravehold wrote: »
    Not trying to make it worse but you shouldn't bring politics into you work accounts, can you get some else to take over for the rest of the day.

    Sure...

    https://www.yesequality.ie/business/


  • #9028
    SpaceTime
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,088 ✭✭✭SpaceTime


    gravehold wrote: »
    Not trying to make it worse but you shouldn't bring politics into you work accounts, can you get some else to take over for the rest of the day.

    We didn't bring anything into it. Was just a simple case of someone retweeting a very innocuous message + getting a barrage of stuff from some loopers in the US.

    Anyway, dealt with now. We have particularly grumpy IT people.


  • #9029
    Sir Oxman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,492 ✭✭✭Sir Oxman


    Just now.
    A pub in Dublin, an aulfella watching the racing opines "I see all the queers are voting next week"
    What says the man sitting beside him, so he repeats it and adds "fckin disgustin bastards"
    The other fella says well I'm voting too and I'm straight anyways, it's all us straight people havin the gay kids, did ya ever think about that?

    Get out and vote.


  • #9030
    Bannasidhe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,218 ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    SpaceTime wrote: »
    See above: I've been fending off some really seriously nasty tweets from the US all morning.

    I'm in pretty foul humor. Apologies!

    No bother.
    I was there yesterday.


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  • #9031
    gravehold
    Closed Accounts Posts: 912 ✭✭✭gravehold


    SpaceTime wrote: »
    We didn't bring anything into it. Was just a simple case of someone retweeting a very innocuous message + getting a barrage of stuff from some loopers in the US.

    Anyway, dealt with now. We have particularly grumpy IT people.

    We have very strict keep personal opinions and politics off any work account cause some partners might not agree, employees should keep work accounts only for work related posts no matter how innocuous it might seem to them as it can cost the company a lot of money.


This discussion has been closed.
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