How will you vote in the Marriage Equality referendum? Mod Note Post 1

Bannasidhe · 06-05-2015 05:31PM

gravehold wrote: »

Did john ever marry sinead?

Nope.

Sinead has been married four time - some of which lasted for days - but never to John.

Snickers Man · 06-05-2015 05:31PM

kunst nugget wrote: »

Did you even read the Fintan O'Toole article you linked to?

Oh I did. In its entirety. And I agree with just about everything he said in it. But look at the shrieky comments at the bottom of his article and the "how dare you" tone of many of them.

Look. For what it's worth, I;m voting yes. But it is no contradiction or inconsistency to say that a lot of the people on the yes side are monstrous pains in the arse.

The smart arses who tried to force that baker to cheerlead for something he didn't want to do are reprehensible.

I don't have to like the bastards. It's just none of my business who they want to set up home with. And I don't think the law should inhibit them.

But you can't legislate for liking.

AtomicHorror · 06-05-2015 05:33PM

Snickers Man wrote: »

But there's a bit of a groundswell of sympathy for them. And, if you believe in banging up the baker who declined to promote a pro gay-marriage slogan, then they are not entitled to any.

Why not? The baker could bake the cake and say he was forced to do it, he keeps good with his religious buddies and gets plenty of sympathy from the right. The rest of us would consider it to be bollocks, but that would be the end of it.

Snickers Man wrote: »

It's their job. Suck it up.

They have a right to distance themselves from a use of their image that they disagree with. They were paid for the use of the image for unspecified purposes, not to keep their mouths shut regardless of that use.

Nodin · 06-05-2015 05:34PM

MrWalsh wrote: »

Where is this happening?

I was clubbed to the ground by a bunch of Rosary bead wielding fanatics only the other night. Every time I asked them why they were doing it, they'd give me another thump of their weighted croziers and roar "We won't be silenced". Only reason they stopped is some fella in a car with a "Gay Pride" sticker waved over to one or other of them (hard to tell which one), and they started looking shifty faced and sort of scurried off.

Zubeneschamali · 06-05-2015 05:35PM

Bridge93 wrote: »

If this doesn't pass it will be the first time I would actually be ashamed to be Irish and be branded with the same brush as those who vote it down.

Well, I remember losing the divorce referendum, and the abortion referendum. But things got better, divorce passed on the next try, and people voted against the clear intent of the abortion amendment as well as the SPUC crowd when the X case referenda came along.

No, we are not there yet, and yes, there is a ridiculous amount of opposition to this no-brainer of a change, but we are going the right direction.

seamus · 06-05-2015 05:37PM

gravehold wrote: »

Did john ever marry sinead?

No, he just left her while she was pregnant and later came back to claim sole custody of the child after it was born. Takes his responsibilities very seriously does our John.

eviltwin · 06-05-2015 05:39PM

Louise Gentle Gem wrote: »

About 14,000 pages back I posted a comment relating to the fact that homosexual acts were illegal in this country in 1993.
Given that homosexuality was a taboo subject in this country for hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of years,I reckon that Irish gay people should be delighted with the progress their fellow citizens have made in recognising gay rights...22 years is a blink of an eye,yet you are outraged that a minority of our people might vote no?
Get off your high horse and have a drink- marriage equality is inevitable.

Ah the old 'be grateful for what you have, sure it could be worse' argument :rolleyes:

ixoy · 06-05-2015 05:39PM

GCU Flexible Demeanour wrote: »

I find Yes voters just retreat into generalities, or deflect with grandstanding comments, rather than get into a meaningful discussion.

What do you expect though? Is the humanitarian angle not enough, seeking to bring others up? Do you want a cold financial argument?

SpaceTime · 06-05-2015 05:40PM

Nodin wrote: »

I was clubbed to the ground by a bunch of Rosary bead wielding fanatics only the other night. Every time I asked them why they were doing it, they'd give me another thump of their weighted croziers and roar "We won't be silenced". Only reason they stopped is some fella in a car with a "Gay Pride" sticker waved over to one or other of them (hard to tell which one), and they started looking shifty faced and sort of scurried off.

I assume you're kidding?!!

wp_rathead · 06-05-2015 05:41PM

MajorMax wrote: »

I'm voting no due to the fact that the yes side have bullied and shouted down any dissenting voices. I'm starting to think I'm not the only one who has formed this opinion

Personally I've been ambivilant about this topic as I'm neither religious or political, but I have been completely sickened by the shrill vitriolic abuse that has been heaped on anyone with an opposing opinion.

Pulling people up on their reasons to Vote No ISN'T "bullying or shouting down dissenting voices" though
It is good to challenge opinions

MajorMax wrote: »

This is a democracy, it's nobodies business if other citizens vote their conscience

yes but, again, this is a discussion forum
Be rather boring and pointless thread if was just all posts off "I'm voting Yes/No" without giving reasons or being able to stand over and defend those reasons.
And yes, it is a democracy, you are free to vote any way you wish

MajorMax wrote: »

Bullies must be oppossed

agree 100%

Zubeneschamali · 06-05-2015 05:42PM

gravehold wrote: »

Sure good look in a few years you will need it.

Please pay a visit on your own behalf to a taxidermist.

SpaceTime · 06-05-2015 05:42PM

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Well, I remember losing the divorce referendum, and the abortion referendum. But things got better, divorce passed on the next try, and people voted against the clear intent of the abortion amendment as well as the SPUC crowd when the X case referenda came along.

No, we are not there yet, and yes, there is a ridiculous amount of opposition to this no-brainer of a change, but we are going the right direction.

I'm not sure there is a ridiculous amount of opposition the BAI rules just force it into a 50:50 situation that over represents the smaller side.

Opinion polling was only putting 20% on the no side.

gravehold · 06-05-2015 05:43PM

seamus wrote: »

No, he just left her while she was pregnant and later came back to claim sole custody of the child after it was born. Takes his responsibilities very seriously does our John.

Got links to this story, I can't find articles about this and you seem to have the info

gravehold · 06-05-2015 05:43PM

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Please pay a visit on your own behalf to a taxidermist.

Death treats how nice

seamus · 06-05-2015 05:45PM

gravehold wrote: »

Got links to this story, I can't find articles about this and you seem to have the info

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/when-a-childs-love-is-not-enough-26159013.html

Zubeneschamali · 06-05-2015 05:46PM

gravehold wrote: »

Death treats how nice

Oh, now you want a polite debate? After saying I'm incredibly stupid, and ignoring the opportunity to withdraw the remark when asked?

floggg · 06-05-2015 05:46PM

gravehold wrote: »

If it fails it will be a really depressing eurovision down the gay bar.

They are all depressing.

gravehold · 06-05-2015 05:47PM

seamus wrote: »

independent.ie/irish-news/when-a-childs-love-is-not-enough-26159013.html[/url]

that says he was there for the birth and child?

JK.BMC · 06-05-2015 05:48PM

gravehold wrote: »

Putting €20 on it to loose at those odd's wouldn't be a bad choice.

Yes it would !!!

A Yes vote would win you €21.66 - which is precisely €21.66 more than you would have if you bet on a NO in that case.

I'm being pedantic but get real - 1/12 is a racing certainty - and there aren't any fences to jump either.

€120 to win a tenner - would pay for a curry chips and a beer that same evening.

If you fancy spread betting, that may give you much better options on say, how much the Yes/No side will accumulate on the day. I'm sure there are other forums for that kinda thing.....

G_R · 06-05-2015 05:49PM

gravehold wrote: »

Death treats how nice

If you've an issue with a post, report it and don't reply to it. Let us deal with it.

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Oh, now you want a polite debate? After saying I'm incredibly stupid, and ignoring the opportunity to withdraw the remark when asked?

Again, if you've an issue with a post, hit report.

Please don't respond to this post or any posts quoted in it

6am7f9zxrsjvnb · 06-05-2015 05:50PM

eviltwin wrote: »

Ah the old 'be grateful for what you have, sure it could be worse' argument :rolleyes:

It's a bit like someone eating pedigree chum from Monday to Saturday and then leaving the table on Sunday because his fillet mignon is slightly overdone.

floggg · 06-05-2015 05:51PM

MajorMax wrote: »

I'm voting no due to the fact that the yes side have bullied and shouted down any dissenting voices. I'm starting to think I'm not the only one who has formed this opinion

Personally I've been ambivilant about this topic as I'm neither religious or political, but I have been completely sickened by the shrill vitriolic abuse that has been heaped on anyone with an opposing opinion.

This is a democracy, it's nobodies business if other citizens vote their conscience

Bullies must be oppossed

It's my business of they vote no - seeing as it's my rights that will be denied. It will be nobodies business if I were to marry though - except my husband's and invited guests.

I honestly think if you look at this debate and see the yes side as the bullies then your sympathies were always with the No side.

We have one side telling the other that their relationships aren't deserving of equal protection, that they cannot provide an ideal or even healthy environment to raise children, that they should be happy with a decidedly leader form of tecognition - and yet you see the ones standing up for themselves and saying they are just as deserving of recognition as anybody else as the bullies.

That argument is really confusing for me. They only way it can make sense is if you already believed what they no side claim to begin with.

GCU Flexible Demeanour · 06-05-2015 05:53PM

ixoy wrote: »

What do you expect though? Is the humanitarian angle not enough, seeking to bring others up? Do you want a cold financial argument?

I'd say it's fine for folk to decide on whatever basis they like. But, still, the default position in any referendum is "No".

It's like, I can't say to you "give me €100 unless you've a good reason not to", and then dismiss you're response with "sure €100 is nothing to you".

I need to provide a positive reason that you can see means giving me €100 is necessary and sensible.

seamus · 06-05-2015 05:54PM

GCU Flexible Demeanour wrote: »

There's actually no need for a reason to Vote No. There's a need for compelling reasons to vote yes. That's the default position in any referendum. Why is my consent being sought?

You're right. Your consent is being sought because at present there are couples who are - by the constitution - denied the ability to get married to eachother by virtue of their gender.

This amendment will address that inequality and allow such people to have their relationship recognised as equal to any other married couple in the state, and all the rights afforded thereof.

Because of the nature of our constitution, this inequality can only be addressed by constitutional amendment and not by the law.

eviltwin · 06-05-2015 05:54PM

Louise Gentle Gem wrote: »

It's a bit like someone eating pedigree chum from Monday to Saturday and then leaving the table on Sunday because his fillet mignon is slightly overdone.

Not quite. For the first time ever SSM is a real possibility, it's within touching distance, gay people can't help but think of how a Yes vote might change their lives...to have that taken away will be hard to take and its cold comfort to know things will change eventually - as they inevitably will - when that change is so close. Disappointment will be crushing.

K4t · 06-05-2015 05:56PM

GCU Flexible Demeanour wrote: »

There's actually no need for a reason to Vote No.

Yes, who needs reasons or the use of logic for doing things. Down with that sort of thing.

seamus · 06-05-2015 06:00PM

eviltwin wrote: »

Ah the old 'be grateful for what you have, sure it could be worse' argument :rolleyes:

To be fair, I think the point is that gay people should avoid being disheartened by the number of "No" voters around - it's to be expected given that it's only 22 years since it was decriminalised.
Or like my father-in-law said (much to my wife's horror), "The gays should be glad that it's not illegal anymore and leave it at that. They're just pushing it too much now!". You're guaranteed to find a few people still struggling with the concept of legal homosexuality, never mind gay marriage. That doesn't mean the're a majority or even significant grouping.

Zubeneschamali · 06-05-2015 06:03PM

seamus wrote: »

"The gays should be glad that it's not illegal anymore and leave it at that. They're just pushing it too much now!".

There's even a No poster with that message: "Hey we gave you gays second-class citizen fakey marriage already, now shut up! Vote No!"

marienbad · 06-05-2015 06:05PM

GCU Flexible Demeanour wrote: »

I'd say it's fine for folk to decide on whatever basis they like. But, still, the default position in any referendum is "No".

It's like, I can't say to you "give me €100 unless you've a good reason not to", and then dismiss you're response with "sure €100 is nothing to you".

I need to provide a positive reason that you can see means giving me €100 is necessary and sensible.

Is that how you decide everything Eris ? Sometimes it is best to just do the right thing . And if at this stage you don't know the difference there is no point engaging with you.

floggg · 06-05-2015 06:07PM

gravehold wrote: »

He is a jew though not a christian

Who do you think puts the Christ in christian?

How will you vote in the Marriage Equality referendum? Mod Note Post 1

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