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How will you vote in the Marriage Equality referendum? Mod Note Post 1

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  • #8582
    Bannasidhe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,218 ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    homerjay2005 wrote: »
    ive by and large kept out of the debate as its something that doesn't interest me at all, however i have to say the behavior of certain parts of the "yes" campaign is nothing short of disgraceful - the abuse, ridiculing and general disrespect for anybody who has an opinion siding with the "no" campaign is really evident and its happening on every form of social media. it definitely will cost some votes however ultimately the bill will pass.

    its very ironic that these people are looking for equality and all that, yet they resort to bullying, intimidation and discrimination to anybody with a different opinion to theirs.

    I just love being called 'these people'.

    It's especially delicious when the person who uses such a passive aggressive terms is accusing 'these people' of being bullies.

    Must have been the Yes side who sent Brendan Courtney Hate Mail to his place of work cos 'bullies'.

    And obviously it's the Yes campaign telling Gay people not to have sex cos 'bullies'.

    And the Yes Campaign said Gay people are more likely to die of cancer cos 'bullies'.

    Seriously. You need to remove the blinkers and see the hate that is being directed at Gay people in Ireland.


  • #8583
    CarpeDiem85
    Closed Accounts Posts: 774 ✭✭✭CarpeDiem85


    smash wrote: »
    It's an extremely emotive issue and when people say they're voting no then an explanation is being sought. There's still no valid reason to vote no and as such, it's frustrating.

    There's no bullying going on though from the yes side as I see it. All I see are the no side playing the victim when asked to give a valid reason for their choice.

    I completely understand it's an emotive issue but even on this thread, if people come out and say they're voting No, straight away people swoop in and demand why. We live in a democracy, people have a vote and let them use in whatever way they want to.


  • #8584
    ixoy
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 18,045 Mod ✭✭✭✭ixoy


    MrWalsh wrote: »
    I agree, and Yes Equality crowdfunded well over 50k for a bus - surely some of it would have been better spent on posters?
    I would think canvassing is actually a better use as it allows them to combat the misrepresentations of the No side. Posters can only do a quick line that can't really inform.
    I actually think Yes Equality have made a bit of a balls of it all, they had stuff available online to sell and then were completely unresponsive to anyone who made a purchase or asked a question.
    Possibly not enough people or not being funded from a variety of interest groups that the No side has?
    More likely again it's a group of well-intended people who haven't had the experience organizing events on this scale.


  • #8585
    humanji
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,976 ✭✭✭✭humanji


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    I just love being called 'these people'.

    It's especially delicious when the person who uses such a passive aggressive terms is accusing 'these people' of being bullies.

    Must have been the Yes side who sent Brendan Courtney Hate Mail to his place of work cos 'bullies'.

    And obviously it's the Yes campaign telling Gay people not to have sex cos 'bullies'.

    And the Yes Campaign said Gay people are more likely to die of cancer cos 'bullies'.

    Seriously. You need to remove the blinkers and see the hate that is being directed at Gay people in Ireland.
    They clearly said "certain parts of the yes campaign", not all. You've just proven what they said.


  • #8586
    Bannasidhe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,218 ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    humanji wrote: »
    They clearly said "certain parts of the yes campaign", not all. You've just proven what they said.

    Yet they utterly failed to acknowledge that 'certain parts' of the No Campaign are spewing vile hatred.

    That is always left unmentioned the the 'yes side are bullies' posts.


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  • #8587
    Ave Sodalis
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,555 ✭✭✭Ave Sodalis


    CarpeDiem85 wrote: »
    I completely understand it's an emotive issue but even on this thread, if people come out and say they're voting No, straight away people swoop in and demand why. We live in a democracy, people have a vote and let them use in whatever way they want to.

    In fairness, this is a discussion forum. The No side are just an entitled to ask why those voting yes are voting that way.


  • #8588
    _Whimsical_
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,992 ✭✭✭_Whimsical_


    floggg wrote: »
    I'm very happy we live in a country which disagrees with you.

    Hence we cannot refuse to serve somebody on grounds of race, gender, religion etc.

    So yes, I think a cake shop being forced to bake a cake is a small price to pay to live in a society where exclusion and bigotry are not tolerated.

    You only have to look to Northern Ireland prior to Catholics gaining full civil rights to know how horrible the alternative is.

    I would like to agree with you that baking a cake is a small price, however this is,and has to be, about the wider legal principle rather than the issue of SSM. If they can be forced to accept custom that requires them to make a statement they don't believe in should you or I tomorrow be legally obliged to supply paraphernalia expressing support for what we see as bigotry or to support ISIS or something abhorrent to our conscience?

    There has to be a distinction in law between the right to refuse to make a political statement in the workplace and the need to not discriminate against a customer when providing a service. If they'd refused to cater a gay marriage I would consider their position wholly untenable but this was a refusal to express support for a political aim/movement. That's different.


  • #8589
    MrWalsh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,664 ✭✭✭MrWalsh


    homerjay2005 wrote: »
    its very ironic that these people are looking for equality and all that, yet they resort to bullying, intimidation and discrimination to anybody with a different opinion to theirs.

    These people?

    Are you referring to gay people?

    I am looking for equality and I am straight. Am I also one of "these people"? Some of us are interested in equality for all because that the the right thing to do.

    I dont see any bullying, intimidation or discrimination by "these people" - perhaps you could point it out?


  • #8590
    Maximus Alexander
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,080 ✭✭✭✭Maximus Alexander


    CarpeDiem85 wrote: »
    I completely understand it's an emotive issue but even on this thread, if people come out and say they're voting No, straight away people swoop in and demand why. We live in a democracy, people have a vote and let them use in whatever way they want to.

    Why would you come on to a discussion board and tell people how you're voting if you didn't want to talk about why?


  • #8591
    CarpeDiem85
    Closed Accounts Posts: 774 ✭✭✭CarpeDiem85


    efb wrote: »
    That's you certainly seizing the day! Have you examples of this lynching or is it just pulling apart their flimsy arguments

    I have looked at the thread quite a bit in over the last few weeks and at times I was shocked by the reactions of people on the Yes side. Just for the record, I actually haven't said one way or another what way I will vote. I don't need to but I certainly don't want to have to give reasons as to why I'm voting one way or another.


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  • #8592
    MrWalsh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,664 ✭✭✭MrWalsh


    ixoy wrote: »
    I would think canvassing is actually a better use as it allows them to combat the misrepresentations of the No side. Posters can only do a quick line that can't really inform.


    Possibly not enough people or not being funded from a variety of interest groups that the No side has?
    More likely again it's a group of well-intended people who haven't had the experience organizing events on this scale.

    Sorry, they were canvassing too.

    Definitely not being funded by the variety of interest groups the No side has.

    Yes possibly, but there is no point in offering online sales (for example) if you then cant respond to queries, go out of stock in no time etc...


  • #8593
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,809 ✭✭✭✭smash


    CarpeDiem85 wrote: »
    I completely understand it's an emotive issue but even on this thread, if people come out and say they're voting No, straight away people swoop in and demand why. We live in a democracy, people have a vote and let them use in whatever way they want to.

    But this vote is on equality, a human rights issue. It's not like the presidential candidate vote. I feel that a valid reason to vote against it must be given because of the of the importance of the issue. It wont affect anyone in a negative way if it's passed but it will remain to affect people in a negative way if denied.

    The main frustration with the no side are the lies that are being peddled. People are falling for it and it's wrong.


  • #8594
    humanji
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,976 ✭✭✭✭humanji


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    Yet they utterly failed to acknowledge that 'certain parts' of the No Campaign are spewing vile hatred.

    That is always left unmentioned the the 'yes side are bullies' posts.
    They didn't mention the no side because they were talking about the yes side. They were talking about certain parts of the yes side attacking anyone who hinted at voting no. Then you attacked him for hinting at voting no.

    The referendum is in severe danger of being lost because too many people fail to think before they say anything. The no side must be laughing away to themselves, as all they have to do is mention something unrelated to the referendum and sit back while some of the yes side shoot the entire campaign in the foot trying to shout them down.


  • #8595
    Zubeneschamali
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,686 ✭✭✭✭Zubeneschamali


    gravehold wrote: »
    They don't have to support it though so a no vote is perfectly valid for them

    I don't support Mass, but I wouldn't vote to ban it. It's no skin off my nose if Catholics want to go and be bored for an hour on Sundays, so I say leave them at it.

    Just as it is no skin off any Catholics nose if two atheist ladies want to marry each other.


  • #8596
    wp_rathead
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,075 ✭✭✭✭wp_rathead


    CarpeDiem85 wrote: »
    I completely understand it's an emotive issue but even on this thread, if people come out and say they're voting No, straight away people swoop in and demand why. We live in a democracy, people have a vote and let them use in whatever way they want to.
    CarpeDiem85 wrote:
    I have looked at the thread quite a bit in over the last few weeks and at times I was shocked by the reactions of people on the Yes side. Just for the record, I actually haven't said one way or another what way I will vote. I don't need to but I certainly don't want to have to give reasons as to why I'm voting one way or another.

    Well it is a discussion forum :confused:


  • #8597
    Zubeneschamali
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,686 ✭✭✭✭Zubeneschamali


    gravehold wrote: »
    A private business should be allowed to decide their own custom. Free market will decide if they made the righ choice or not.

    "No Blacks, No Dogs, No Irish"


  • #8598
    ixoy
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 18,045 Mod ✭✭✭✭ixoy


    CarpeDiem85 wrote: »
    I have looked at the thread quite a bit in over the last few weeks and at times I was shocked by the reactions of people on the Yes side.
    Why are you shocked that people would feel so strongly about an issue like this? Obviously, I'm going to as I want to be able to marry my partner so it's very relevant to me. But I've seen many of my friends feel passionate about it - not just because they know how it affects me - but they can't stand seeing such blatant misdirection peddled about the subject. It's empathy.

    That empathy is also what could be used a bit more by the Yes side for those who won't vote because it doesn't directly affect them - have them think not that it just doesn't affect them but that it does affect a family member, a co-worker, a friend, and future generations.


  • #8599
    wp_rathead
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,075 ✭✭✭✭wp_rathead


    humanji wrote: »
    They didn't mention the no side because they were talking about the yes side. They were talking about certain parts of the yes side attacking anyone who hinted at voting no. Then you attacked him for hinting at voting no.
    Where does Bannasidhe attack him?
    Bannasidhe wrote:
    Yet they utterly failed to acknowledge that 'certain parts' of the No Campaign are spewing vile hatred.

    That is always left unmentioned the the 'yes side are bullies' posts.
    Bannasidhe wrote:
    I just love being called 'these people'.

    It's especially delicious when the person who uses such a passive aggressive terms is accusing 'these people' of being bullies.

    Must have been the Yes side who sent Brendan Courtney Hate Mail to his place of work cos 'bullies'.

    And obviously it's the Yes campaign telling Gay people not to have sex cos 'bullies'.

    And the Yes Campaign said Gay people are more likely to die of cancer cos 'bullies'.

    Seriously. You need to remove the blinkers and see the hate that is being directed at Gay people in Ireland.


  • #8600
    humanji
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,976 ✭✭✭✭humanji


    wp_rathead wrote: »
    Where does Bannasidhe attack him?
    In the second post you quoted.


  • #8601
    Bannasidhe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,218 ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    humanji wrote: »
    They didn't mention the no side because they were talking about the yes side. They were talking about certain parts of the yes side attacking anyone who hinted at voting no. Then you attacked him for hinting at voting no.

    The referendum is in severe danger of being lost because too many people fail to think before they say anything. The no side must be laughing away to themselves, as all they have to do is mention something unrelated to the referendum and sit back while some of the yes side shoot the entire campaign in the foot trying to shout them down.

    With respect - if that was an 'attack' then I deserve to be infracted.

    It was not an 'attack' as you style it, it was a sarcastic rebuttal using examples of bullying that have come from the No side.

    Or do you feel that I was being a bully by pointing out that, in fact, there are concrete examples of aggressive tactics coming from the No side which all of 'these people' who complain about bullies never ever condemn.

    I would also point out that I, personally, was subjected to several personal attacks in this very thread which resulted in bans and cards so I find it a bit rich when people complain that the Yes side are bullies.


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  • #8602
    gravehold
    Closed Accounts Posts: 912 ✭✭✭gravehold


    Zubeneschamali wrote: »
    I don't support Mass, but I wouldn't vote to ban it. It's no skin off my nose if Catholics want to go and be bored for an hour on Sundays, so I say leave them at it.

    Just as it is no skin off any Catholics nose if two atheist ladies want to marry each other.

    Hey a bunch of atheists went and cut down a cross on a hill cause it offended them, plenty of people would vote yes to ban Christianity and if there was a vote that would be their right. We never really have referendums to remove rights though


  • #8603
    Woodville56
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,643 ✭✭✭Woodville56


    So far in this debate, on this thread and others related, I've seen the words "idiotic" "stupid" "homophobe" "asinine" "hypocrite" and other expletives used against the views of anyone who offers any view or opinion other than an unequivocal Yes to the SSM referendum proposal. Now there's a reason to vote no !
    The arrogance and intolerance of the yes proponents here won't convert the undecided and may have the opposite effect. I'm at this point still "sympathetic" to the YES cause, but I'm fast losing faith in its keyboard supporters at the vitriol and abuse being slung at those whose opinions differ. The "our way or no way" argument is simply being intolerant and disrespectful, it cuts both ways. To portray those who oppose SSM for whatever reason as sheep being led blindly by religious or moral convictions or as of a lesser intellect is grossly unfair and insulting and is in itself dismissive of the right to free though and the expression of same - the very thing the SSM advocates accuse their opponents of doing !


  • #8604
    gravehold
    Closed Accounts Posts: 912 ✭✭✭gravehold


    Zubeneschamali wrote: »
    "No Blacks, No Dogs, No Irish"

    And in a free market 2 of those groups have the choice to setup their own shop to cater to a market not being serviced, the free market at work.

    Dogs can't own shops though they need to be protected


  • #8605
    seamus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,190 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    gravehold wrote: »
    Hey a bunch of atheists went and cut down a cross on a hill cause it offended them
    No they didn't :confused:


  • #8606
    Hyzepher
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 4,678 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hyzepher


    Woodville56 wrote: »
    So far in this debate, on this thread and others related, I've seen the words "idiotic" "stupid" "homophobe" "asinine" "hypocrite" and other expletives used against the views of anyone who offers any view or opinion other than an unequivocal Yes to the SSM referendum proposal. Now there's a reason to vote no !
    The arrogance and intolerance of the yes proponents here won't convert the undecided and may have the opposite effect. I'm at this point still "sympathetic" to the YES cause, but I'm fast losing faith in its keyboard supporters at the vitriol and abuse being slung at those whose opinions differ. The "our way or no way" argument is simply being intolerant and disrespectful, it cuts both ways. To portray those who oppose SSM for whatever reason as sheep being led blindly by religious or moral convictions or as of a lesser intellect is grossly unfair and insulting and is in itself dismissive of the right to free though and the expression of same - the very thing the SSM advocates accuse their opponents of doing !

    Vote which ever way you believe in.

    The actions of others who may vote the same way should have no bearing on what you believe to be right.

    Voting against your own beliefs don't make sense to me.


  • #8607
    VinLieger
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,007 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    homerjay2005 wrote: »
    where did i say that?

    Maybe could do with reading your own posts
    homerjay2005 wrote: »
    its very ironic that these people are looking for equality and all that, yet they resort to bullying, intimidation and discrimination to anybody with a different opinion to theirs.


  • #8608
    floggg
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,821 ✭✭✭floggg


    kunst nugget wrote: »
    Should a gay baker be forced to make a cake that says 'Jesus says Gay People should practice Abstinence!' with Jesus giving the thumbs up?

    Probably not.

    But he shouldn't be allowed to refuse to make a plain Victoria sponge cake for the local parish priest's birthday party just because he dislikes Christians.


  • #8609
    Zubeneschamali
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,686 ✭✭✭✭Zubeneschamali


    gravehold wrote: »
    plenty of people would vote yes to ban Christianity and if there was a vote that would be their right.

    Well, now that you tell me it's OK, I will start a movement to confiscate all church assets, deport all priests and turn all churches into gay nightclubs!

    Better hope Christians stay above 50% of the electorate!

    ...or we could live and let live in a tolerant society, and vote to allow others freedom to pursue any religion or none.


  • #8610
    gravehold
    Closed Accounts Posts: 912 ✭✭✭gravehold


    seamus wrote: »
    No they didn't :confused:

    irishcentral.com/news/Video-of-Carrauntoohil-cross-being-cut-down-contains-anti-Catholic-messages.html


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  • #8611
    humanji
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,976 ✭✭✭✭humanji


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    It was not an 'attack' as you style it, it was a sarcastic rebuttal using examples of bullying that have come from the No side..

    Exactly! Do you honestly think that people on the no side will see that reply and say "Well that's a friendly reminder that the point made by the other poster was perhaps incorrect"? Or will they see you posting a snarky reply that does nothing to battle their belief that the no side are being bullied?

    The argument "Well they did it first" means f-all. Why do you think the no side can come across as victims? It's because they don't go on the attack when the yes side makes a statement. They get to say outrageous things and fall back, knowing that some people are raring for a fight and will charge at them. Then they get to point at these people and say "Hey everyone, look at the people attacking me for making my opinion known."

    The yes campaign needs to make a concerted effort to debate issues and turn the other cheek when the no side flings mud. It's not enough to be right. In fact, being right means little. It's politics. You have to make the other side look wrong and get people to agree with you. That's how votes are won.


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