M6 - Galway City Ring Road [planning decision pending]

Chris_5339762 · 05-05-2015 10:26pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Galway says NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO ENTRY"

Why so many "No Entry"signs?

Actually looking at that picture why didn't they make it one way during the works but make one of those lanes a bus lane? Especially given that Lough Atalia Road is the feeder for all of Galways buses, both private and public?

Iwannahurl · 05-05-2015 10:39pm

I've found myself wondering the same thing recently, ie why did they not make one side of Lough Atalia Road a bus/cycle lane.

Too late now though, because the 'consultation' process is long over.

dloob · 06-05-2015 2:15pm

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

Good. I really can't see the NRA (who are somewhat sensible in general) proposing a route that requires a tunnel under a racecourse. Thats a crazy, crazy suggestion. I've never heard of it anywhere else.

The proposed blue route includes a tunnel under the racecourse

antoobrien · 06-05-2015 2:23pm

dloob wrote: »

The proposed blue route includes a tunnel under the racecourse

Also the pink (which is a variation on blue) and green routes include tunnels under the stable yards.

Chris_5339762 · 06-05-2015 7:07pm

As one of the options, yeah. But I'd be bewildered if they announce the preferred route as one going under the racecourse or through the stables.

Goofy · 06-05-2015 7:36pm

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

As one of the options, yeah. But I'd be bewildered if they announce the preferred route as one going under the racecourse or through the stables.

As far as I know the alternative is through houses. Galway is squeezed into a narrow strip of land between the corrib and the bay. Most of the available land has been designated a no go area because of the limestone pavement. A tunnel under the racecourse may not be the cheapest but it will cause the least amount of disruption.

jenningso · 07-05-2015 7:47am

http://m.rte.ie/news/2015/0507/699270-n6-galway-transport-project/

spacetweek · 07-05-2015 11:28am

jenningso wrote: »

http://m.rte.ie/news/2015/0507/699270-n6-galway-transport-project/

But separately the N6GalwayCity people said the route that has appeared in the media is wrong. So is the description in that article wrong?

Also it says there'll be a junction with the N17 which can't be right. Otherwise why would anyone use the M6->M17.

Benbecul97 · 07-05-2015 11:54am

http://www.n6galwaycity.ie/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/GCOB-SK-R-326_EPRC_Bulletin-6.pdf

dubhthach · 07-05-2015 12:19pm

Mix of Green route (particularly on the two end points) and pink/blue

L1011 · 07-05-2015 12:51pm

*Two* tunnels? This isn't really all that practical or cost-effective is it?

dloob · 07-05-2015 12:56pm

Interesting the parkmore and ballybane/ballybrit industrial estates will be connected together and have direct access to bypass.

Looks like it goes though the Audi garage and Western motors.

MBSnr · 07-05-2015 1:40pm

dloob wrote: »

Interesting the parkmore and ballybane/ballybrit industrial estates will be connected together and have direct access to bypass.

Looks like it goes though the Audi garage and Western motors.

And they appear to want to change the junction/lights at Briarhill back into a roundabout....

Also how would you leave Parkmore/Ballybrit and travel East...? Doesn't seem clear anyhow.

kippy · 07-05-2015 1:43pm

Surely there are a few bridges missing from the route I've seen (route released today)?
Over the Moycullen road, the carnmore road for example.

what_traffic · 07-05-2015 2:42pm

MBSnr wrote: »

And they appear to want to change the junction/lights at Briarhill back into a roundabout....

http://www.n6galwaycity.ie/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/GCOB-SK-R-326_EPRC_Bulletin-6.pdf

Same goes for the other 4 "Tribal" Roundabouts that were converted along the N6 in the past few years. Still showing as roundabouts.

dubhthach · 07-05-2015 2:44pm

Well tbh that's not a detailed route map. I imagine we'll see one of those from Arup, like the previous one the released. It's only really and indicative map.

dubhthach · 07-05-2015 2:49pm

Interesting looking at the original route selections in Ballybrit area. It's seems mostly Pink route (with different interface to M6) and than the Blue options "surface road" changes in the industrial estates etc.

KevR · 07-05-2015 7:54pm

What is the advantage of having a dumbell junction for the N59/Rahoon Rd interchange? Surely the same design as the N84 interchange would be better from a traffic flow and pedestrian/cyclist point of view? Are dumbell junctions cheaper or something?

Also, how much of a cost saving is there likely to be for the Western end of the scheme where it is at-grade single carriageway (as opposed to grade separated dual carriageway or even an at-grade S4)?

spacetweek · 07-05-2015 8:53pm

KevR wrote: »

What is the advantage of having a dumbell junction for the N59/Rahoon Rd interchange? Surely the same design as the N84 interchange would be better from a traffic flow and pedestrian/cyclist point of view? Are dumbell junctions cheaper or something?
Also, how much of a cost saving is there likely to be for the Western end of the scheme where it is at-grade single carriageway (as opposed to grade separated dual carriageway or even an at-grade S4)?

I'm not aware that dumbbells are. It might be something to do with better traffic flow than an unsignalised crossroads. As for the western part, it'll have vastly less traffic than the rest and could always be widened if really necessary.

Chris_5339762 · 07-05-2015 9:12pm

Bit of a knot of a junction at the current M6 end, will be interesting to see that in practice.

The racecourse tunnel is ridiculous, send the road round the north of the racecourse. The other tunnel is also ridiculous. Tunnel under nothing.

If they're trying to protect the limestone pavement with the western tunnel then I wonder if its slipped their mind that no hope of any TBMs being used, so they'll be cut & cover tunnels anyway.

spacetweek · 07-05-2015 9:13pm

Thoughts:
So they are indeed having a junction with the existing N17. No one in the city will use the M17 to get to Tuam unless they live in Doughiska or further east. So you'll still need the Claregalway bypass etc.

At the N59 crossover, a group of new houses called Ard An Locha will probably be entirely demolished. According to Streetview these look like they were only built a few years ago. This emphasises the importance of forward planning. You gotta plan routes for these roads decades in advance or you end up having to cut a swathe of destruction Sim City-style through your urban area.

Since the purpose of both tunnels is to avoid damaging the surface, they will both have to be drilled. This will be very expensive, far more than cut-and-cover tunnels would be.

I'm trying to make sense of that dog's dinner of an interchange at Doughiska. The existing (quite new) N6 to existing bypass will be the straight-through movement while diverting to the new bypass will require a turn-off. This will mean that the N6 will have a TOTSO (turn off to stay on). They're also trying to maintain access to the southern part of the R446 towards Curragrean. All their little loops to allow turning movements look tiny though.

I'm glad the dual section will be continued past the N59 junction at least as far as the next road. Looks like most minor roads along that far section will be bridged with the only intersections indicated by roundabouts.

Numbering - since the existing bypass is only numbered N6 as far as the N59 junction, I wonder if they'll do the same with the bypass with the rest an R-road.

KevR · 07-05-2015 11:09pm

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

If they're trying to protect the limestone pavement with the western tunnel then I wonder if its slipped their mind that no hope of any TBMs being used, so they'll be cut & cover tunnels anyway.

At the public consultation a few months back, one of the consultants mentioned that the tunnel will start by cutting into the face of Lackagh Quarry use conventional cutting equipment (as opposed to a TBM)

spacetweek · 07-05-2015 11:27pm

I've put a big update on all this on my site in case anyone wants to have a read.

Schadenfreudia · 08-05-2015 12:47pm

Already...on the TV last night some guy from Galway was promising that this road would never get built - protests, court challenges in High Court, Supreme Court, and "Europe" he promised.

Though I suppose, at least in the eyes of the EU, bulldozing homes to clear a path isn't as serious as disturbing some wetlands full of bog-lice.

Iwannahurl · 08-05-2015 1:10pm

ARUP's most optimistic estimate for a completion date would be 2020.

Dream on.

The, ahem, bog-standard references to "bog-lice" entirely misses the point that the EU regards its directives with far more seriousness than most people in Ireland can muster on a good day.

In Ireland, bogs are just bog and laws are for eejits. In the EU bogs (and limestone pavements) are habitats, and the law is a set of rules to be observed.

Schadenfreudia · 08-05-2015 1:42pm

Iwannahurl wrote: »

ARUP's most optimistic estimate for a completion date would be 2020.

Dream on.

The, ahem, bog-standard references to "bog-lice" entirely misses the point that the EU regards its directives with far more seriousness than most people in Ireland can muster on a good day.

In Ireland, bogs are just bog and laws are for eejits. In the EU bogs (and limestone pavements) are habitats, and the law is a set of rules to be observed.

Everywhere on the surface of the planet is a "habitat".

In a country covered in lakes and bogs the idea that a major transport project should be blocked by one is insane.

MBSnr · 08-05-2015 1:45pm

Iwannahurl wrote: »

ARUP's most optimistic estimate for a completion date would be 2020.

Dream on.

The, ahem, bog-standard references to "bog-lice" entirely misses the point that the EU regards its directives with far more seriousness than most people in Ireland can muster on a good day.

In Ireland, bogs are just bog and laws are for eejits. In the EU bogs (and limestone pavements) are habitats, and the law is a set of rules to be observed.

It should have been built back then. There's conservation and there's madness. There was a newt 'saved' on the M6 in the UK. As far as I recall they saved a small amount and each one cost 37K GBP. Worth it? You'd wonder.

Also how much more pollution is put into the Galway atmosphere everyday due to traffic queuing compared to that if bypass had been built back years ago? That's probably continuing to do more damage than the bypass would have done to the 'bog-lice'.

Iwannahurl · 08-05-2015 1:48pm

Schadenfreudia wrote: »

Everywhere on the surface of the planet is a "habitat".

In a country covered in lakes and bogs the idea that a major transport project should be blocked by one is insane.

"You're on Earth. There's no cure for that." ~Samuel Beckett.

All the more reason to protect what habitats are left. 95% of raised bogs are gone.

What's insane is that some people regard a new expressway for car commuters as being more important than sustainable transport solutions. Sustainability includes the principle that natural habitats should be protected from damage by human activity.

Human activity is meaningless without a habitable environment.

MBSnr wrote: »

Also how much more pollution is put into the Galway atmosphere everyday due to traffic queuing compared to that if bypass had been built back years ago? That's probably continuing to do more damage than the bypass would have done to the 'bog-lice'.

That argument is made repeatedly. Basically it's saying that if many people choose to drive their car and sit in traffic of their own making, then any alleged extra pollution is due to the lack of road space that would enable them to drive faster. However, it beggars the question because it assumes the inevitably of choosing to drive and of contributing to traffic. The win-win solution is therefore to tackle car dependence at source, because more roads will not lead to less traffic overall.

MBSnr · 08-05-2015 1:56pm

Iwannahurl wrote: »

That argument is made repeatedly. Basically it's saying that if many people choose to drive their car and sit in traffic of their own making, then any alleged extra pollution is due to the lack of road space that would enable them to drive faster. However, it beggars the question because it assumes the inevitably of choosing to drive and of contributing to traffic. The win-win solution is therefore to tackle car dependence at source, because more roads will not lead to less traffic overall.

What's your proposed solution to the Galway transport issue?

SeanW · 08-05-2015 2:13pm

MBSnr wrote: »

What's your proposed solution to the Galway transport issue?

"Screw motorists" it's his answer to everything.

What's insane is that some people regard a new expressway for car commuters as being more important than sustainable transport solutions.

No, what's insane is that there is a need to facilitate long distance travellers, e.g. Clifden-Dublin, Spiddal-Athenry etc and some people seem to think there's a benefit in continuing to force them through a city central area.

That's both ridiculous and bizarre.

M6 - Galway City Ring Road [planning decision pending]

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