Has Mayweather/Pacquiao done the business of boxing more harm than good?

Talib Fiasco · 03-05-2015 03:40PM

Kameda is a very odd inclusion there.

leonil7 · 03-05-2015 03:40PM

last great fight of boxing i reckon. glad to have watched it in our generation. manny will now retire and focus on family and politics. floyd will still fight and make money, less people will care. nobody likes a winner win all the time esp someone flamboyant, too unlike the rest of the guys.

Big Ears · 03-05-2015 03:43PM

Talib Fiasco wrote: »

Kameda is a very odd inclusion there.

, posts #20 & #21 here http://www.boxingforum24.com/showthread.php?t=222103&page=2 might explain it.

Talib Fiasco · 03-05-2015 03:47PM

Big Ears wrote: »

, posts #20 & #21 here http://www.boxingforum24.com/showthread.php?t=222103&page=2 might explain it.

Ah I see! He's actually a decent boxer though, although his younger brother is much much better and will get more exposure than him.

I really think Asian boxing is the future. Naoya Inoue I firmly believe is the second coming of Manny and a rivalry between him Gonzalez and Estrada could very well be this generation's version of Floyd/Manny/Marquez.

mdwexford · 03-05-2015 03:57PM

Peter Anthony wrote: »

UFC is dying outside the McGregor bubble which will be burst very soon. There biggest draw is a woman FFS, its just not taken seriously. And the money may not reach those heights again til the next superfight but its still on a different planet to anything the UFC will ever get near. .

What a load of absolute tripe.

You have no idea what you are talking about.

Leroy42 · 03-05-2015 04:23PM

I'd be one of those bandwagon fans that you guys talk about. Passing interest, Andy Lee, pay attention to the Olympics and these big fights but no appreciation of the nuances etc.

But as in any sport, its the casual fan that is needed to drive growth. I haven't paid or stayed up for one of these super fights since Tyson.

A few things put me off. Tyson/Holyfield debacle pretty much put me off. This fight was oversold as the greatest f8ght of the century when even a casual review in youtube would point that while it was the biggest grossing fight it was unlikely to be an epic contest.

You can't really complain when you sell it as the greatest fight and then complain that people just don't understand the technical side of it.

Henno30 · 03-05-2015 04:25PM

Very negative response alright but it won't make too much of a difference in the end. A missed opportunity to grow the sport more than anything else.

People have been saying boxing is dying for nearly a hundred years. Now most of those people are dead and boxing is still here. It will survive all of us too. As Larry Merchant said nothing can save boxing, and nothing can kill it.

Big Ears · 03-05-2015 04:30PM

mdwexford wrote: »

What a load of absolute tripe.

You have no idea what you are talking about.

He's most likely incorrect as UFC will imo grow and eventually pick up much more interest than it currently does.

But it's current state is massively inflated from our perspective here in Ireland as a result of Mcgregor. There has only ever been 8 UFC ppv's which have drawn more than 1 million view. Only 1 of those was in the last 4 years, and 4 of them involved Brock Lesnar (So possibly just a lot of buys from Wrestling fans).

UFC have lost a lot of their big names in the last few years. Lesner went back to WWE and recently signed a new deal meaning he's not coming back. GSP retired (although may come back), Anderson Silva lost a few times and is now banned due to doping. Jon Jones has been suspended. Liddell, Couture, Rampage, Ortiz, Griffin, Sonnen and some other big sellers all got old, lost/dropped down a level.

Also UFC are left with the tricky scenario of rising competitiors. In the past they've just bought them (Pride, Strikeforce, WEC), but is that a sustainable business model. If Bellator, WSOF, One FC all grow could they afford to just purchase them, and then have to purchase their succesors in a couple of years ?
What if a rival company is formed with a Tycoon's backing who just won't sell ?, then eventually we'll get a scenario more like boxing when the best don't always fight the best....

Anyway I expect the UFC will grow, but it does have challenges, and this is a boxing forum so probably not the place to go into it too much (but I did anyway

)

cowzerp · 03-05-2015 04:35PM

I'm a big UFC fan and the ppv in it has waned since 2007, its not growing at all, if anything it's going down and cards are getting weaker
eventually when the athletes get paid more the quality of cards will further regress

The people turned off by last night aren't boxing fans anyway so it might not have won new fans but it wouldn't turn away old fans, I actually enjoyed it tbh

When Floyd goes someone else will become the new star, like Oscar was before Floyd

Canelo is only a baby and could be 1, Either way Boxing is going nowhere, last night proved nothing gets people going like top level boxing

Bubolor · 03-05-2015 05:06PM

Leroy42 wrote: »

I'd be one of those bandwagon fans that you guys talk about. Passing interest, Andy Lee, pay attention to the Olympics and these big fights but no appreciation of the nuances etc.

But as in any sport, its the casual fan that is needed to drive growth. I haven't paid or stayed up for one of these super fights since Tyson.

A few things put me off. Tyson/Holyfield debacle pretty much put me off. This fight was oversold as the greatest f8ght of the century when even a casual review in youtube would point that while it was the biggest grossing fight it was unlikely to be an epic contest.

You can't really complain when you sell it as the greatest fight and then complain that people just don't understand the technical side of it.

Well anyone who thinks a fight will be great because the promoters said so deserves to lose their money.

Henno30 · 03-05-2015 05:16PM

Leroy42 wrote: »

You can't really complain when you sell it as the greatest fight and then complain that people just don't understand the technical side of it.

I don't think it was ever sold as a guaranteed epic by anyone except the promoters. It was a fight that needed to happen because they've been the biggest names in the sport for the past half decade. But with Floyd Mayweather involved there was always a good chance it would be dull.

Leroy42 · 03-05-2015 06:34PM

Bubolor wrote: »

Well anyone who thinks a fight will be great because the promoters said so deserves to lose their money.

Yeah, stupid people deserve to loose their money. That will build the fan base!

It was sold as the fight of the century. At no point did they say to except a tactical defence master class.

I don't have any sympathy for anybody who paid to see it. But the op is asking did it boxing any harm and in my view it did as those casual customers won't be in a rush back

UCDVet · 03-05-2015 06:57PM

Just speaking for myself....I haven't watched a boxing match since Tyson until now. Everyone was talking about it, I wanted to see what it was all about. I even put down some money to make it interesting, stayed up all night, and tuned in.

In all seriousness, things like this attract all sorts of new fans. Someone like me watches it, enjoys it, learns more about it, watches more fights, etc, etc...bigger fan base means more people talking about upcoming fights and more new people tuning in. It's like a fire spreading.

But it can have the opposite affect. No disrespect to the people who enjoyed it, but I was underwhelmed and I'll be happy to wait another 20 years before I watch another match.

In fairness, I don't know what I was expecting. I wanted big punches and knockdowns and all that. I wanted Rocky VI. Or at least some controversy. Bite an ear or something. I think my favorite part was the interviewer asking some really meanly worded questions to Manny after his loss.

Really sound tactical defense or whatever, while clearly an important part of the sport, eh, wasn't that exciting for me. That doesn't mean it isn't impressive or a great fight for true boxing fans.....but for me, it's not worth it. Especially with the price tag required to watch the fight. I can watch lots of sports for free (legally) online or with my antenna.

Most everyone I've spoken (in person) with about the fight that wasn't already a boxing fan has expressed similar opinions. 'Eh yeah, so that was that....' Not a single, 'Can't wait for the Mayweather's next/last fight!'

I don't think it's going to *hurt* boxing....but I think it could have brought in a huge number of new fans had it gone another way.

Talib Fiasco · 03-05-2015 07:03PM

UCDVet wrote: »

Just speaking for myself....I haven't watched a boxing match since Tyson until now. Everyone was talking about it, I wanted to see what it was all about. I even put down some money to make it interesting, stayed up all night, and tuned in.

In all seriousness, things like this attract all sorts of new fans. Someone like me watches it, enjoys it, learns more about it, watches more fights, etc, etc...bigger fan base means more people talking about upcoming fights and more new people tuning in. It's like a fire spreading.

But it can have the opposite affect. No disrespect to the people who enjoyed it, but I was underwhelmed and I'll be happy to wait another 20 years before I watch another match.

In fairness, I don't know what I was expecting. I wanted big punches and knockdowns and all that. I wanted Rocky VI. Or at least some controversy. Bite an ear or something. I think my favorite part was the interviewer asking some really meanly worded questions to Manny after his loss.

Really sound tactical defense or whatever, while clearly an important part of the sport, eh, wasn't that exciting for me. That doesn't mean it isn't impressive or a great fight for true boxing fans.....but for me, it's not worth it. Especially with the price tag required to watch the fight. I can watch lots of sports for free (legally) online or with my antenna.

Most everyone I've spoken (in person) with about the fight that wasn't already a boxing fan has expressed similar opinions. 'Eh yeah, so that was that....' Not a single, 'Can't wait for the Mayweather's next/last fight!'

I don't think it's going to *hurt* boxing....but I think it could have brought in a huge number of new fans had it gone another way.

Giggled far too hard at that :pac:

Fair points though, it's a shame in a way that Floyd is the number one draw to Boxing as he isn't the most appealing in terms of highlight reel sort of boxing that would appeal to any sport fan.

Phil Mitchell · 03-05-2015 08:02PM

Boxing has a massive image problem in Ireland and the UK (probably America too). It's quite similar to the way Greyhound racing was too before the Irish Greyhound Board rebranded it as "A night at the dogs".

When you think of boxing in Ireland, you think of grimey gyms in rough areas. In the UK, I cannot help but think of East End gangster sorts. Even the promoters like Eddie Hearn reminds me of an owner of a used car dealership.

Greyhound racing had the impression that it was for men in long trenchcoats with gambling problems.

Boxing needs rebranding. It can't be about people from exceptionally poor backgrounds making it good. We've all seen that movie a thousand times

leonil7 · 03-05-2015 08:19PM

there seems to be a viral going on, the scorecard looks reversed basing on the red and blue corner. did mp actually won the game ?

Icaras · 03-05-2015 08:35PM

I think all 3 giving the 4th round to blue/Paco pretty much puts this in conspiracy throey territory.

martyos121 · 03-05-2015 09:45PM

Yeah that's BS mate. There's no argument to be made for Manny winning that fight, as much as I wish there was.

ebbsy · 03-05-2015 09:49PM

Pac did'nt win more than a couple of rounds, last the first 3 and flatlined again in the closing rounds.

Henno30 · 03-05-2015 10:07PM

leonil7 wrote: »

there seems to be a viral going on, the scorecard looks reversed basing on the red and blue corner. did mp actually won the game ?

Dear god.

Talib Fiasco · 03-05-2015 10:19PM

People have to realise that each judge gets a separate scoring card and that's the "tallied" card, often very rushed...it's clear it couldn't have been a stitch up as one judge clearly had written Mayweather won by UD. They just made a simple mix up between the names and the corner. It is a silly mistake though for such a high profile fight and I can understand why some people would scream conspiracy but if it was anything serious something would be have mentioned officially by now. It's funny though.

Endthescam · 03-05-2015 10:26PM

mdwexford wrote: »

Last night was exactly what I expected result wise and how the fight went but it certainly wasn't entertaining and there is no other fight that would make me pay €25 to watch it, including a rematch obviously.

Boxing is diluted with so many belts and weight classes and most fights I've seen in the last few years have been boring.

I've become a big UFC fan over the past 8 years and it's so much better the way things are run. One belt, the best fighters take each other on. No ridiculous negotiations that go on for years etc

There are loads of MMA belts.

I couldn't give a shut about the UFC personally. I find it pretty poor to watch and everything surrounding it is awful.

RoryMac · 03-05-2015 10:27PM

Talib Fiasco wrote: »

People have to realise that each judge gets a separate scoring card and that's the "tallied" card, often very rushed...it's clear it couldn't have been a stitch up as one judge clearly had written Mayweather won by UD. They just made a simple mix up between the names and the corner. It is a silly mistake though for such a high profile fight and I can understand why some people would scream conspiracy but if it was anything serious something would be have mentioned officially by now. It's funny though.

Imagine the controversy if this had come out after a split decision!

efb · 03-05-2015 10:40PM

leonil7 wrote: »

there seems to be a viral going on, the scorecard looks reversed basing on the red and blue corner. did mp actually won the game ?

Well if it's on the Internet it must be true- George Washington and Marilyn Monroe taught me that!

Henno30 · 03-05-2015 11:01PM

Talib Fiasco wrote: »

People have to realise that each judge gets a separate scoring card and that's the "tallied" card, often very rushed...it's clear it couldn't have been a stitch up as one judge clearly had written Mayweather won by UD. They just made a simple mix up between the names and the corner. It is a silly mistake though for such a high profile fight and I can understand why some people would scream conspiracy but if it was anything serious something would be have mentioned officially by now. It's funny though.

Dwarf.Shortage · 03-05-2015 11:19PM

Henno30 wrote: »

What is this supposed to illustrate?

Big Ears · 03-05-2015 11:21PM

Dwarf.Shortage wrote: »

What is this supposed to illustrate?

The man in the hat was up to his old tricks again !

mdwexford · 04-05-2015 02:11AM

Endthescam wrote: »

There are loads of MMA belts.

I couldn't give a shut about the UFC personally. I find it pretty poor to watch and everything surrounding it is awful.

There is one UFC belt in each weight class.
There are other organisations but they are recognised as the biggest promotion.

MMA is far more exciting than boxing.

Everything surrounding it? Like what

megadodge · 04-05-2015 03:12AM

I think most of what I wanted to say in reply to the various 'boxing is dead/dying' posts have been made already, but I just have to add that for virtually all of my time interested in boxing (35+ years) I've been listening to the same old mantra repeated ad nauseum by lazy journalists and (very) casual observers (not fans) of boxing. And I know for certain I'll be listening to the same rubbish for the rest of my life.

Boxing will never die! It is more widespread worldwide now than it ever was.

Even during the supposed 'last golden era of boxing' (the 1980s) there was plenty of 'ah the boxers of nowadays are nothing compared to the good old days'. I know, because I heard it and read it. Thankfully, I didn't believe it and just continued enjoying watching a flawed but wonderful sport. The business side on the other hand is just as corrupt and dirty as it always was, but it won't turn me off, cos I just watch the boxing.

One final point. I really believe Mayweather became a 'superstar' mainly by virtue of the fame and popularity of who he fought. He fought three of the most popular boxers ever - Oscar De la Hoya, Ricky Hatton and Saul Alvarez. All three had enormous fanbases in different countries when Mayweather fought them. The fights were hugely successful because of their popularity, not because of Mayweather's. He was good enough to beat them and because of that became a huge name by association, not because of his boxing style. He was also extremely well marketed, whether playing up the bad guy role, appearing on Dance with the Stars and on huge WWE wrestling bills and that helped too, but only to a certain extent.

I suspect the next boxing superstar will become one because of his boxing style first and foremost. Vasyl Lomachenko for me has serious potential to be that star. I think his placement on last night's bill was no accident and already have heard quite a few 'casuals' talk about his performance. Most telling of all was his retort to being told that Roy Jones already ranked him as top 5 pound-for-pound. He disagreed and said he hadn't beaten any top boxer yet to be given that accolade but he plans on doing exactly that. Kellerman's reaction to that statement said it all. He was thrilled and anyone else interested in boxing should be too.

Boxing will continue to entertain and frustrate in equal measures, just as it always has.

leonil7 · 04-05-2015 10:19AM

Pacquiao recalls the fight with Mayweather "He kept hugging me. I think he loves me."

Has Mayweather/Pacquiao done the business of boxing more harm than good?

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