How will you vote in the Marriage Equality referendum? Mod Note Post 1

frostyjacks · 02-05-2015 10:16AM

MrWalsh wrote: »

Eh, I'm past my childbearing years. I always felt the same. If by some miracle I got pregnant I would seek an abortion (probably safer at my age anyway).

If I knew I'd be having you as a parent I'd be telling the doctor to hurry the f**k up.

Bannasidhe · 02-05-2015 10:16AM

dashcamdanny wrote: »

Yeah buts its not that straight forward by the looks of it.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/birth_family_relationships/cohabiting_couples/adoption_and_unmarried_couples.html

good for you

Thems the old rules.

Children and Family Relationship Act changes all of that. It's been signed into law but hasn't come into force yet so technically the 'old' rules still apply.

AFAIK C&FR Act comes into force this month so all the info will be updated then.

jimdublin15 · 02-05-2015 10:16AM

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm voting NO.... I'm a single mum of two adult children.

I'm not againsts men marrying men, or women marrying women if thats what they want. And there should be legislation for that in terms of inheritance, next of kin etc.

But I draw the line at children. Women and men were made different physically, emotionally, mentally, psychologically so they would compliment each other in different ways. And children get the benefit of both in a heterosexual marriage.
Men were never meant to marry men and have kids.....not on a biological level. So the only way this can be done is adoption or surrogacy.

Last month I started minding 4 children who's mother died recently. Their father who works full time wants a "female mother figure" for them. He is a brilliant Dad himself but he says its what they need. I agree. They need nuturing, compassion, empathy and that deep motheriing instinct that only a woman has as she is the ONLY creature who carries a child and gives birth to it. Its as simply and fundamental as that.

I'm truly sorry to hear that 4 kids recently lost their mother. Truly very sad.

As for the rest of your post, I am single father of two children and I take care of my kids, I work full-time, they live full time with me. The man in your story need time to adjust and maybe it's just not his thing, but don't come up with a "female mother figure" I see so many bad ones it's a joke.

So I don't see what this all has to do with you voting NO. By all means votes as you like but your reasons above is just completely unrelated to the topic. This this referendum is not about if we like homosexuality, it’s not about children or redefining family, it’s very simple and it’s only about extending the legal definition of marriage so same sex couples can also legally make each other miserable by means of marriage.

Riverireland · 02-05-2015 10:17AM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Did you not hear Keith Mills of the No campaign on the Late Late Show saying all that stuff about children is covered by the Children and Family Relationship Act and has nothing to do with the Referendum? Even the No Campaign has admitted it has nothing to do with who does and doesn't have/raise children.

So if you vote no you are against men marrying men, or women marrying women because that - and only that - is what we are voting on.

If the no vote wins on the day it can be attributed in a large part to the children and family relationship act. A lot of no voters are against gay men adopting children. Marriage will copper fasten this right whereas if the no vote wins the current legislation can be overturned in time.

Marriage does not actually change the relationship between two people. I reckon most yes voters are single or they would already know this.

For the record I won't be voting in this election but if I were it would be a no mostly due to the ott campaign run by the yes side.

Shame they wouldn't put so much effort into the homeless crisis, everyone would be housed by year end.

Bannasidhe · 02-05-2015 10:17AM

frostyjacks wrote: »

If I knew I'd be having you as a parent I'd be telling the doctor to hurry the f**k up.

That is completely uncalled for!

El_Duderino 09 · 02-05-2015 10:18AM

dashcamdanny wrote: »

Im not sure that is a good argument. For 3 years my missis went to work each day while I was unemployed in the deep recession years. I was playing mammy for a long time with my newborn and other children.

Best time I ever had with my kids and I would love to go back and do it again. Men are completely capable of having every feeling towards a child as any mother.

Didn't you read sweetmaggie's post? According to her men are incapable of showing enough empathy to children so you thought you were taking great care of your children but you were actually messing them up by starving them of emotional interaction.

Sweetmaggie's a special snowflake who uses her superpower of empathy which men just wouldn't understand.

Has it ever occurred to her that people in couples take on roles in a unique way in every relationship? Does she think lesbians are incapable of carrying doing DIY or mowing the lawn because they are men's jobs? Or that gays never wash their clothes or clean the house because they are women's jobs?

Back here in reality most couples take on certain roles. One will take more of an interest in DIY and one will take more of an interest in cooking because its human nature to enjoy being good at things and we can't be expert at everything, so we tend to specialise. Naturally one will take a more maternal role while the other will take a more paternal role. It's human nature.

The children you mind were raised by a man and a woman and it would be difficult for them to adjust to something different. Children raised by 2 men or 2 women would be fine. Not a bother on them. The research shows that.

frostyjacks · 02-05-2015 10:20AM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

That is completely uncalled for!

It's a play on the old Churchill line. She put it out there.

Bannasidhe · 02-05-2015 10:21AM

Riverireland wrote: »

If the no vote wins on the day it can be attributed in a large part to the children and family relationship act. A lot of no voters are against gay men adopting children. Marriage will copper fasten this right whereas if the no vote wins the current legislation can be overturned in time.

Marriage does not actually change the relationship between two people. I reckon most yes voters are single or they would already know this.

For the record I won't be voting in this election but if I were it would be a no mostly due to the ott campaign run by the yes side.

Shame they wouldn't put so much effort into the homeless crisis, everyone would be housed by year end.

Highlighted bit - That might be what those behind the No campaign want but as they also want it to be 1950 again I can't see them as any kind of a good bet.

Vote No because people are homeless???

I have heard it all now.

Bannasidhe · 02-05-2015 10:24AM

frostyjacks wrote: »

It's a play on the old Churchill line. She put it out there.

Context dude.

And in this context it was uncalled for. Maybe it was a (very bad) attempt at a joke but it reads as a personal - and horrible - comment.

Now drink the poisoned wine* and withdraw the comment.

*to paraphrase Churchill.

Riverireland · 02-05-2015 10:26AM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Highlighted bit - That might be what those behind the No campaign want but as they also want it to be 1950 again I can't see them as any kind of a good bet.

Vote No because people are homeless???

I have heard it all now.

As I said I am not voting!

But yes I do regard this whole thing as a bit of a side show and a distraction from serious issues like unemployment and the major housing crisis this country is experiencing.

Couldn't care less if it's yes or no, just blue in the face with such a big deal being made of a day out and a legal piece of paper!

eviltwin · 02-05-2015 10:31AM

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm voting NO.... I'm a single mum of two adult children.

I'm not againsts men marrying men, or women marrying women if thats what they want. And there should be legislation for that in terms of inheritance, next of kin etc.

But I draw the line at children. Women and men were made different physically, emotionally, mentally, psychologically so they would compliment each other in different ways. And children get the benefit of both in a heterosexual marriage.
Men were never meant to marry men and have kids.....not on a biological level. So the only way this can be done is adoption or surrogacy.

Last month I started minding 4 children who's mother died recently. Their father who works full time wants a "female mother figure" for them. He is a brilliant Dad himself but he says its what they need. I agree. They need nuturing, compassion, empathy and that deep motheriing instinct that only a woman has as she is the ONLY creature who carries a child and gives birth to it. Its as simply and fundamental as that.

Thats quite insulting Maggie, I'm sure you don't intend it to be but it is. I'm raising my children in a traditional family and we've both taken time out from our careers to be at home over the years. There is nothing I can do that my husband cannot and vice versa. I was raised by a stay at home dad at a time it was unheard of and he did an amazing job. Giving birth to a child does not make a mother either, that is offensive. The things that make a parent a great parent are their characters not their genitals.

ebbsy · 02-05-2015 10:31AM

Riverireland wrote: »

As I said I am not voting!

But yes I do regard this whole thing as a bit of a side show and a distraction from serious issues like unemployment and the major housing crisis this country is experiencing.

Couldn't care less if it's yes or no, just blue in the face with such a big deal being made of a day out and a legal piece of paper!

Finally somebody who ain't talking through their rear end.

El_Duderino 09 · 02-05-2015 10:32AM

Riverireland wrote: »

As I said I am not voting!

But yes I do regard this whole thing as a bit of a side show and a distraction from serious issues like unemployment and the major housing crisis this country is experiencing.

Couldn't care less if it's yes or no, just blue in the face with such a big deal being made of a day out and a legal piece of paper!

Are you married yourself Riverireland? Or do you ever see yourself getting married in the future?

jimdublin15 · 02-05-2015 10:36AM

Riverireland wrote: »

As I said I am not voting!

But yes I do regard this whole thing as a bit of a side show and a distraction from serious issues like unemployment and the major housing crisis this country is experiencing.

Couldn't care less if it's yes or no, just blue in the face with such a big deal being made of a day out and a legal piece of paper!

Your absolutely right, It should not be such a big deal/issue and it's a shame and noisy that it has become that. It's is just a piece of paper, so let's give it to those who want it. Let's vote on this, give it whoever wants in and then we can get back to other bigger issues.

aloyisious · 02-05-2015 10:36AM

alan partridge aha wrote: »

No, when go down this route, equality for all, ssm has to accomodate for two sisters/brothers to marry and if not it's not equality for all. Just for gays.

The referendum is about extending the Civil Right to marriage existing in our constitution to homosexual couples. It is not about changing the existing statute law (preventing closely-related family members marrying each other) enacted by both houses of the Oireachtas. We've debated that here and it is simply not included in the constitution.

timetogo · 02-05-2015 10:37AM

Riverireland wrote: »

As I said I am not voting!

But yes I do regard this whole thing as a bit of a side show and a distraction from serious issues like unemployment and the major housing crisis this country is experiencing.

Couldn't care less if it's yes or no, just blue in the face with such a big deal being made of a day out and a legal piece of paper!

Yes, let's never vote again until all of society's other issues are sorted. That'll work.
Good job people didn't use the same argument for women voting or black people.

El_Duderino 09 · 02-05-2015 10:37AM

elfy4eva wrote: »

Gay people can already adopt, I don't know how many times this has to be said.

The marriage equality referendum next month is ONLY for extending the right to marry to same sex couples, which you say you are in favor of...don't understand why you would vote no, seems hypocritical.

At least once more. While people are using the adoption as a shield for admitting their bigotry towards gays, you will need to say it at least once more.

02-05-2015 10:39AM

dashcamdanny wrote: »

Im not sure that is a good argument. For 3 years my missis went to work each day while I was unemployed in the deep recession years. I was playing mammy for a long time with my newborn and other children.

Best time I ever had with my kids and I would love to go back and do it again. Men are completely capable of having every feeling towards a child as any mother.

yes ..... but your children still had a mother... and knew that. Your roles were reversed workwise but they still had a male and female parent

timetogo · 02-05-2015 10:41AM

Deleted User wrote: »

yes ..... but your children still had a mother... and knew that. Your roles were reversed workwise but they still had a male and female parent

So if the mother ever died the kids should be.... What?

Removed as they would only have a father?
Have an exception to your rule that a mother had to be present?
Live with the fact that they're going to have something wrong with them because they don't have a mother (this isn't my opinion, just thinking up options that might fit in with your views)

What other options would you recommend?

NuMarvel · 02-05-2015 10:42AM

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm voting NO.... I'm a single mum of two adult children.

I'm not againsts men marrying men, or women marrying women if thats what they want. And there should be legislation for that in terms of inheritance, next of kin etc.

But I draw the line at children. Women and men were made different physically, emotionally, mentally, psychologically so they would compliment each other in different ways. And children get the benefit of both in a heterosexual marriage.
Men were never meant to marry men and have kids.....not on a biological level. So the only way this can be done is adoption or surrogacy.

Last month I started minding 4 children who's mother died recently. Their father who works full time wants a "female mother figure" for them. He is a brilliant Dad himself but he says its what they need. I agree. They need nuturing, compassion, empathy and that deep motheriing instinct that only a woman has as she is the ONLY creature who carries a child and gives birth to it. Its as simply and fundamental as that.

Here's the thing. We could go back and forth all day about what children need and the outcomes of same sex couples parenting and all that. I could cite research and personal testimonies, and you could probably do the same.

But that would all be for naught, because it would be missing one plain and simple fact: a No vote doesn't stop same sex couples raising children; it just stops those couples marrying. The bar on marriage is not a bar on parenting, and if it was meant to be, it's been completely ineffective. Same sex couples have been raising kids in Ireland since at least the late 70s, and they will continue to do so regardless.

All a No vote does is maintain the status quo; it won't stop same sex couples raising children, it'll just stop them being married while they're doing it.

eviltwin · 02-05-2015 10:43AM

Deleted User wrote: »

yes ..... but your children still had a mother... and knew that. Your roles were reversed workwise but they still had a male and female parent

So all those who grew up in non traditional families....Are they damaged in some way?

El_Duderino 09 · 02-05-2015 10:44AM

Deleted User wrote: »

yes ..... but your children still had a mother... and knew that. Your roles were reversed workwise but they still had a male and female parent

He was a single parent. How does knowing they have a female parent change things if they are getting day to day care from one parent and not the other? You're splitting hairs here Seeetmaggie.

MrWalsh · 02-05-2015 10:45AM

frostyjacks wrote: »

It's a play on the old Churchill line. She put it out there.

No it was a personal attack.

Riverireland · 02-05-2015 10:49AM

jimdublin15 wrote: »

Your absolutely right, It should not be such a big deal/issue and it's a shame and noisy that it has become that. It's is just a piece of paper, so let's give it to those who want it. Let's vote on this, give it whoever wants in and then we can get back to other bigger issues.

Would have made more sense to sort the bigger issues out first.

Never had any issues with anyone's choice of sexuality but this whole thing is just making me think, Grow up and get over yourselves...

hynesie08 · 02-05-2015 10:49AM

Deleted User wrote: »

yes ..... but your children still had a mother... and knew that. Your roles were reversed workwise but they still had a male and female parent

You said you're a single mother, I'm gonna assume your kids turned out alright?
You're not against marraige but you're voting no?
How does anything you're saying add up?

02-05-2015 10:51AM

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Didn't you read sweetmaggie's post? According to her men are incapable of showing enough empathy to children so you thought you were taking great care of your children but you were actually messing them up by starving them of emotional interaction.

Sweetmaggie's a special snowflake who uses her superpower of empathy which men just wouldn't understand.

Has it ever occurred to her that people in couples take on roles in a unique way in every relationship? Does she think lesbians are incapable of carrying doing DIY or mowing the lawn because they are men's jobs? Or that gays never wash their clothes or clean the house because they are women's jobs?

Back here in reality most couples take on certain roles. One will take more of an interest in DIY and one will take more of an interest in cooking because its human nature to enjoy being good at things and we can't be expert at everything, so we tend to specialise. Naturally one will take a more maternal role while the other will take a more paternal role. It's human nature.

The children you mind were raised by a man and a woman and it would be difficult for them to adjust to something different. Children raised by 2 men or 2 women would be fine. Not a bother on them. The research shows that.

I'm not a "special snowflake" whatever that is?? I lost my little daughter to cancer, my marriage broke up years ago as a result, reared my other 2 kids alone. As a woman I do all the jobs, cut grass, bins, fix the car, electrician, plumber ....then cooking, housework etc etc..plus I have work outside home too. I know what it takes to rear kids and I think men and women can do equally good jobs.

I'm not talking about mum going out to work and dad staying at home scenario. I am simply saying that over the period of a lifetime of a child I PERSONALLY think its better to have a male and a female role model. I think I am entitled to my opinion and like all of us this opinion is based on experience.
I also respect that man who's 4 children I'm minding..... this is what he needs for his kids after the death of their mum. Its his choice.

I dont understand the vitriol.....the YES side are light years ahead in the polls. You are going to wipe us No's. So a little less antipathy. We are all entitled to an opinion. We have all had different life experiences.

December2012 · 02-05-2015 10:53AM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I'm voting NO.... I'm a single mum of two adult children.

I'm not againsts men marrying men, or women marrying women if thats what they want. And there should be legislation for that in terms of inheritance, next of kin etc.

But I draw the line at children. Women and men were made different physically, emotionally, mentally, psychologically so they would compliment each other in different ways. And children get the benefit of both in a heterosexual marriage.
Men were never meant to marry men and have kids.....not on a biological level. So the only way this can be done is adoption or surrogacy.

Last month I started minding 4 children who's mother died recently. Their father who works full time wants a "female mother figure" for them. He is a brilliant Dad himself but he says its what they need. I agree. They need nuturing, compassion, empathy and that deep motheriing instinct that only a woman has as she is the ONLY creature who carries a child and gives birth to it. Its as simply and fundamental as that.

So are you saying you did a bad job of parenting? You're single, after all.

02-05-2015 10:54AM

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Didn't you read sweetmaggie's post? According to her men are incapable of showing enough empathy to children so you thought you were taking great care of your children but you were actually messing them up by starving them of emotional interaction.

Sweetmaggie's a special snowflake who uses her superpower of empathy which men just wouldn't understand.

Has it ever occurred to her that people in couples take on roles in a unique way in every relationship? Does she think lesbians are incapable of carrying doing DIY or mowing the lawn because they are men's jobs? Or that gays never wash their clothes or clean the house because they are women's jobs?

Back here in reality most couples take on certain roles. One will take more of an interest in DIY and one will take more of an interest in cooking because its human nature to enjoy being good at things and we can't be expert at everything, so we tend to specialise. Naturally one will take a more maternal role while the other will take a more paternal role. It's human nature.

The children you mind were raised by a man and a woman and it would be difficult for them to adjust to something different. Children raised by 2 men or 2 women would be fine. Not a bother on them. The research shows that.

hynesie08 wrote: »

You said you're a single mother, I'm gonna assume your kids turned out alright?
You're not against marraige but you're voting no?
How does anything you're saying add up?

ehhhhh?? I'm not against marriage. You're right. But only heterosexual marriage. So I'm voting no. How does that not add up?

You might not agree but this is a democracy and I'm entitled to my opinion and my vote. Why are you so worried anyway.......the YES vote will win this by a mile.

eviltwin · 02-05-2015 10:54AM

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm not a "special snowflake" whatever that is?? I lost my little daughter to cancer, my marriage broke up years ago as a result, reared my other 2 kids alone. As a woman I do all the jobs, cut grass, bins, fix the car, electrician, plumber ....then cooking, housework etc etc..plus I have work outside home too. I know what it takes to rear kids and I think men and women can do equally good jobs.

I'm not talking about mum going out to work and dad staying at home scenario. I am simply saying that over the period of a lifetime of a child I PERSONALLY think its better to have a male and a female role model. I think I am entitled to my opinion and like all of us this opinion is based on experience.
I also respect that man who's 4 children I'm minding..... this is what he needs for his kids after the death of their mum. Its his choice.

I dont understand the vitriol.....the YES side are light years ahead in the polls. You are going to wipe us No's. So a little less antipathy. We are all entitled to an opinion. We have all had different life experiences.

It's not just a personal opinion though is it? You're going to enforce your opinion on the lives of gay people and their family. That's not fair. Particularly when it's been explained multiple times that a no vote won't actually stop gay people parenting.

02-05-2015 11:00AM

eviltwin wrote: »

It's not just a personal opinion though is it? You're going to enforce your opinion on the lives of gay people and their family. That's not fair. Particularly when it's been explained multiple times that a no vote won't actually stop gay people parenting.

Ha ha - "enforce" my opinion??
its not going to make a whit of difference....the YES side have this in the bag......so CHILL !!
you dont have to "explain" over and over again......this isn't school.

I'm entitled to my opinion and my vote.

I'm tired of this - I've made my point..... off for a walk on the beach with the dog :P

How will you vote in the Marriage Equality referendum? Mod Note Post 1

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