How will you vote in the Marriage Equality referendum? Mod Note Post 1

MrWalsh · 02-05-2015 09:09AM

dashcamdanny wrote: »

I would be sad for all of the above, but I would also be sad that my family blood line would stop and I would have no biological grandchildren. My parents seeing my kids is a highlight in their lives.

I hope my children are not gay.

Maybe a yes vote can bring family together. Im am very much on the fence on this as yet.

I'm straight and married and the family bloodline stops with me as we do not want to have children.

Having straight children doesn't guarantee the family bloodline.

Bannasidhe · 02-05-2015 09:18AM

dashcamdanny wrote: »

I would be sad for all of the above, but I would also be sad that my family blood line would stop and I would have no biological grandchildren. My parents seeing my kids is a highlight in their lives.

I hope my children are not gay.

Maybe a yes vote can bring family together. Im am very much on the fence on this as yet.

Cold war kid said kind things about my post and quoted it above. If you read it you will see the words 'grandson' and 'great grand children'

Bloodlines can and do continue.

Nor is having heterosexual children a guarantee that bloodlines continue.

Nothing to do with the Referendum. because if gay people want to have children they will find a way. If straight people don't want to have children they will find a way. Regardless of whether any of them are married to anyone. We are voting about who can marry. Not have children.

dashcamdanny · 02-05-2015 09:19AM

MrWalsh wrote: »

I'm straight and married and the family bloodline stops with me as we do not want to have children.

Having straight children doesn't guarantee the family bloodline.

Your right there for sure. But it does mean its never going to happen.

And never say never. One thing I have been surprised at in my own life, is my opinions on things as decades roll over.

I once though the same. Now i'm up to my neck in Nappies and teenagers.:o

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Cold war kid said kind things about my post and quoted it above. If you read it you will see the words 'grandson' and 'great grand children'

Bloodlines can and do continue.

Nor is having heterosexual children a guarantee that bloodlines continue.

Nothing to do with the Referendum. because if gay people want to have children they will find a way. If straight people don't want to have children they will find a way. Regardless of whether any of them are married to anyone. We are voting about who can marry. Not have children.

I know its nothing to do with the referendum, is was simply commenting of another posters fears of having a gay child.

But I am interested in your response . How can a gay couple find a way? Not having a go at ya, just wondering how this could happen..

Bannasidhe · 02-05-2015 09:24AM

dashcamdanny wrote: »

But it does mean its never going to happen.

And never say never. One thing I have been surprised at in my own life, is my opinions on things as decades roll over.

...

Bannasidhe · 02-05-2015 09:25AM

dashcamdanny wrote: »

But I am interested in your response . How can a gay couple find a way? Not having a go at ya, just wondering how this could happen..

Same way a straight couple where one or both are infertile can find a way.
The biology is the same.

dashcamdanny · 02-05-2015 09:26AM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

...

Sorry was a little out of context there. I mean to say, just because you may not want children in you 20s, does not mean you may not want them in your 30s or 40s as life goes on.

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Same way a straight couple where one or both are infertile can find a way.
The biology is the same.

Surrogacy then.

aloyisious · 02-05-2015 09:39AM

frostyjacks wrote: »

Because there is no right to SSM

Well now you've cut to the chase on what the referendum is all about, the extension of civil marriage to Irish LGBT citizens. There's just one thing, SSM or gay marriage will not come into existence if the existing right to civil marriage in our constitution to straight citizen couples is extended to LGBT citizen couples.

mucksavage1985 · 02-05-2015 09:46AM

There is no such thing as equality! This is a false idealism! The only thing that we all do equally Is we are born and then we die. The paths we take in life are certainly not equal. I was in hospital one day and waiting to see consultant. There was a pile of patient files on the table and every time a patient was called there file was taken. I knew my file was next in line so I was happy I was next. Then this next pile of files appeared and they were seen before me. I was then told that this was the private patients and they get seen first. So I'm thinking if we are all looking for equality then why should money make a difference. There is certainly no equality in our health service. The government of course is the advocating equality when it comes to marriage though. Sure look at Ireland we are a great little country. We have to do this to make it look good in the world stage. But also we can take investment from China who has very little human rights. But this can be hush hush. Also Russia too. Its all about the one thing power and money. Government goes with public mood and gets all vote next election. Ispcc of course won't go against government as where does main funding come from? It's laughable.

Hellrazer · 02-05-2015 09:47AM

I'll be voting yes but I'm still amazed at the ratio of almost 4 to 1 in favour.Call it gut feeling or something but I actually think this is going to be a lot closer than the runaway victory expected.

In the last week I've seen very little yes posters around the area I work but loads of no posters up on poles..is there a danger that the yes side are becoming complacent and becoming lazy due to the expected victory?!

Nodin · 02-05-2015 09:47AM

mucksavage1985 wrote: »

There is (..........) It's laughable.

A wonderful rant that has very very little to do with the thread topic.

Bannasidhe · 02-05-2015 09:50AM

dashcamdanny wrote: »

Sorry was a little out of context there. I mean to say, just because you may not want children in you 20s, does not mean you may not want them in your 30s or 40s as life goes on.

Surrogacy then.

One also may not be able to have children.

Does every straight couple who can't have children use surrogacy?

No. It's very rare. It's rare for gay people too.

You also seem to forget that lesbians usually have wombs. Quite often these are perfectly functional wombs which means they can have children. They are in a similar situation to a straight woman whose male partner cannot produce sperm (or who sperm isn't very good at swimming

) - would that straight couple go 'straight' to surrogacy?
There are 5 clinics in Ireland where one can get pregnant through donated sperm. FIVE. This says to me there is a hell of a market for it... maybe... just maybe... there are straight couples out there where the man parenting the child is not the biological father but people just assume he is. The couple wanted a child - there was an issue with sperm... they got sperm from a clinic... they had a child... ain't no bodies business what they do!

The vast majority of children being raised by same sex couples are where one of the couple is the biological mother.

I even know situations where the biological father is a gay men and parental duties are shared - the dads have access in an arrangement that many unmarried straight fathers would give their eye teeth for!

Do all straight couples where the woman can't have children go 'straight' to surrogacy? No. Most try and go the adoption route first.

aloyisious · 02-05-2015 09:51AM

RobertKK wrote: »

They aren't.

Does every heterosexual person have sex?

Does every LGBT person have sex?

02-05-2015 09:52AM

I'm voting NO.... I'm a single mum of two adult children.

I'm not againsts men marrying men, or women marrying women if thats what they want. And there should be legislation for that in terms of inheritance, next of kin etc.

But I draw the line at children. Women and men were made different physically, emotionally, mentally, psychologically so they would compliment each other in different ways. And children get the benefit of both in a heterosexual marriage.
Men were never meant to marry men and have kids.....not on a biological level. So the only way this can be done is adoption or surrogacy.

Last month I started minding 4 children who's mother died recently. Their father who works full time wants a "female mother figure" for them. He is a brilliant Dad himself but he says its what they need. I agree. They need nuturing, compassion, empathy and that deep motheriing instinct that only a woman has as she is the ONLY creature who carries a child and gives birth to it. Its as simply and fundamental as that.

Bannasidhe · 02-05-2015 09:52AM

mucksavage1985 wrote: »

There is no such thing as equality! This is a false idealism! The only thing that we all do equally Is we are born and then we die. The paths we take in life are certainly not equal. I was in hospital one day and waiting to see consultant. There was a pile of patient files on the table and every time a patient was called there file was taken. I knew my file was next in line so I was happy I was next. Then this next pile of files appeared and they were seen before me. I was then told that this was the private patients and they get seen first. So I'm thinking if we are all looking for equality then why should money make a difference. There is certainly no equality in our health service. The government of course is the advocating equality when it comes to marriage though. Sure look at Ireland we are a great little country. We have to do this to make it look good in the world stage. But also we can take investment from China who has very little human rights. But this can be hush hush. Also Russia too. Its all about the one thing power and money. Government goes with public mood and gets all vote next election. Ispcc of course won't go against government as where does main funding come from? It's laughable.

So maybe help tips the scales towards more equality a bit - or you can just rant about how ****e everything is while doing absolutely nothing to change it...

bodice ripper · 02-05-2015 09:56AM

Deleted User wrote:

Last month I started minding 4 children who's mother died recently. Their father who works full time wants a "female mother figure" for them. He is a brilliant Dad himself but he says its what they need. I agree. They need nuturing, compassion, empathyand that deep motheriing instinct that only a woman has as she is the ONLY creature who carries a child and gives birth to it. Its as simply and fundamental as that.

Sounds like he made a poor choice so.

Bannasidhe · 02-05-2015 09:56AM

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm voting NO.... I'm a single mum of two adult children.

I'm not againsts men marrying men, or women marrying women if thats what they want. And there should be legislation for that in terms of inheritance, next of kin etc.

But I draw the line at children. Women and men were made different physically, emotionally, mentally, psychologically so they would compliment each other in different ways. And children get the benefit of both in a heterosexual marriage.
Men were never meant to marry men and have kids.....not on a biological level. So the only way this can be done is adoption or surrogacy.

Last month I started minding 4 children who's mother died recently. Their father who works full time wants a "female mother figure" for them. He is a brilliant Dad himself but he says its what they need. I agree. They need nuturing, compassion, empathy and that deep motheriing instinct that only a woman has as she is the ONLY creature who carries a child and gives birth to it. Its as simply and fundamental as that.

Did you not hear Keith Mills of the No campaign on the Late Late Show saying all that stuff about children is covered by the Children and Family Relationship Act and has nothing to do with the Referendum? Even the No Campaign has admitted it has nothing to do with who does and doesn't have/raise children.

So if you vote no you are against men marrying men, or women marrying women because that - and only that - is what we are voting on.

Bannasidhe · 02-05-2015 09:59AM

Hellrazer wrote: »

I'll be voting yes but I'm still amazed at the ratio of almost 4 to 1 in favour.Call it gut feeling or something but I actually think this is going to be a lot closer than the runaway victory expected.

In the last week I've seen very little yes posters around the area I work but loads of no posters up on poles..is there a danger that the yes side are becoming complacent and becoming lazy due to the expected victory?!

More that the Yes side doesn't have access to the seemingly bottomless pit of money the No side can dip into *cough*$$$$*cough*...
Yes posters began going up on Thursday.

dashcamdanny · 02-05-2015 10:01AM

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm voting NO.... I'm a single mum of two adult children.

I'm not againsts men marrying men, or women marrying women if thats what they want. And there should be legislation for that in terms of inheritance, next of kin etc.

But I draw the line at children. Women and men were made different physically, emotionally, mentally, psychologically so they would compliment each other in different ways. And children get the benefit of both in a heterosexual marriage.
Men were never meant to marry men and have kids.....not on a biological level. So the only way this can be done is adoption or surrogacy.

Last month I started minding 4 children who's mother died recently. Their father who works full time wants a "female mother figure" for them. He is a brilliant Dad himself but he says its what they need. I agree. They need nuturing, compassion, empathy and that deep motheriing instinct that only a woman has as she is the ONLY creature who carries a child and gives birth to it. Its as simply and fundamental as that.

Im not sure that is a good argument. For 3 years my missis went to work each day while I was unemployed in the deep recession years. I was playing mammy for a long time with my newborn and other children.

Best time I ever had with my kids and I would love to go back and do it again. Men are completely capable of having every feeling towards a child as any mother.

jimdublin15 · 02-05-2015 10:01AM

dashcamdanny wrote: »

I would be sad for all of the above, but I would also be sad that my family blood line would stop and I would have no biological grandchildren. My parents seeing my kids is a highlight in their lives.

I hope my children are not gay.

Maybe a yes vote can bring family together. Im am very much on the fence on this as yet.

lol, I just thinking of my current family blood line. If being "gay" was going to stop it I would not be around myself, yet here I am.

El_Duderino 09 · 02-05-2015 10:02AM

mucksavage,

Is your point that we can't achieve equality in the health service so we shouldn't try for marriage equality either?

aloyisious · 02-05-2015 10:04AM

mucksavage1985 wrote: »

marriage should be about the family as nature intended. Man and woman = children.

Problem is civil marriage is a man-made (I use that term advisedly as men made the legal rules way back then) legal institution, not a creation of nature. Nature doesn't make laws.

VinLieger · 02-05-2015 10:05AM

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm voting NO.... I'm a single mum of two adult children.

I'm not againsts men marrying men, or women marrying women if thats what they want. And there should be legislation for that in terms of inheritance, next of kin etc.

But I draw the line at children. Women and men were made different physically, emotionally, mentally, psychologically so they would compliment each other in different ways. And children get the benefit of both in a heterosexual marriage.
Men were never meant to marry men and have kids.....not on a biological level. So the only way this can be done is adoption or surrogacy.

Last month I started minding 4 children who's mother died recently. Their father who works full time wants a "female mother figure" for them. He is a brilliant Dad himself but he says its what they need. I agree. They need nuturing, compassion, empathy and that deep motheriing instinct that only a woman has as she is the ONLY creature who carries a child and gives birth to it. Its as simply and fundamental as that.

Whether you vote yes or no gay men and women will still be allowed adopt children, this is about Marriage nothing more nothing less and voting no will only mean gay people cannot get married.

You like many other no voters have been taken in by the lies and filth that david quinn et al have been spreading that this is about children and voting no will protect them in some twisted way.

Bannasidhe · 02-05-2015 10:05AM

dashcamdanny wrote: »

Im not sure that is a good argument. For 3 years my missis went to work each day while I was unemployed in the deep recession years. I was playing mammy for a long time with my newborn and other children.

Best time I ever had with my kids and I would love to go back and do it again. Men are completely capable of having every feeling towards a child as any mother.

Genuinely some of the best most nurturing parents I ever met were straight men.

In fact, my mother and her sisters were all taught to knit, sew, iron, read, fix a puncture, polish shoes etc etc by their father because their mother - which she admitted - didn't have the patience.

elfy4eva · 02-05-2015 10:06AM

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm voting NO.... I'm a single mum of two adult children.

I'm not againsts men marrying men, or women marrying women if thats what they want. And there should be legislation for that in terms of inheritance, next of kin etc.

But I draw the line at children. Women and men were made different physically, emotionally, mentally, psychologically so they would compliment each other in different ways. And children get the benefit of both in a heterosexual marriage.
Men were never meant to marry men and have kids.....not on a biological level. So the only way this can be done is adoption or surrogacy.

Last month I started minding 4 children who's mother died recently. Their father who works full time wants a "female mother figure" for them. He is a brilliant Dad himself but he says its what they need. I agree. They need nuturing, compassion, empathy and that deep motheriing instinct that only a woman has as she is the ONLY creature who carries a child and gives birth to it. Its as simply and fundamental as that.

Gay people can already adopt, I don't know how many times this has to be said.

The marriage equality referendum next month is ONLY for extending the right to marry to same sex couples, which you say you are in favor of...don't understand why you would vote no, seems hypocritical.

aloyisious · 02-05-2015 10:09AM

mucksavage1985 wrote: »

Stable home is where parents are faithful to each other with no violence or abuse involved.

Well using that as a ground-rule, that rules out humans for the most.

MrWalsh · 02-05-2015 10:09AM

dashcamdanny wrote: »

Your right there for sure. But it does mean its never going to happen.

And never say never. One thing I have been surprised at in my own life, is my opinions on things as decades roll over.

I once though the same. Now i'm up to my neck in Nappies and teenagers.:o.

Eh, I'm past my childbearing years. I always felt the same. If by some miracle I got pregnant I would seek an abortion (probably safer at my age anyway).

mucksavage1985 · 02-05-2015 10:10AM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

So maybe help tips the scales towards more equality a bit - or you can just rant about how ****e everything is while doing absolutely nothing to change it...

Life is what you make it. Trying to change the system is an uphill battle and money is the talker not equality

dashcamdanny · 02-05-2015 10:11AM

elfy4eva wrote: »

Gay people can already adopt, I don't know how many times this has to be said.

The marriage equality referendum next month is ONLY for extending the right to marry to same sex couples, which you say you are in favor of...don't understand why you would vote no, seems hypocritical.

Yeah buts its not that straight forward by the looks of it.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/birth_family_relationships/cohabiting_couples/adoption_and_unmarried_couples.html

Bannasidhe · 02-05-2015 10:13AM

mucksavage1985 wrote: »

Life is what you make it. Trying to change the system is an uphill battle and money is the talker not equality

Yes.

And that is why we still live in a Feudal Society where the lord of the Manor lives up at the castle and the peasants have to eat mud.

No point even trying to change it like.

NO VOTES FOR ANYONE!

MrWalsh · 02-05-2015 10:15AM

dashcamdanny wrote: »

Yeah buts its not that straight forward by the looks of it.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/birth_family_relationships/cohabiting_couples/adoption_and_unmarried_couples.html

It's not straightforward for anyone to adopt a stranger in Ireland anymore. Most countries borders are closed to foreign adoptions and virtually no Irish children come up for adoption anymore. The few who do tend to be adopted within families or by people who marry someone who isn't related to their child.

How will you vote in the Marriage Equality referendum? Mod Note Post 1

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