Red Squirrels

Jellybaby1 · 22-05-2014 03:40PM #1

First time in 'Nature' forum. Had to post because a few weeks ago we saw a red squirrel, in Dublin. We thought the east of the country was controlled by the greys. We would be glad if someone could enlighten us.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1 · 22-05-2014 04:15PM

Red squirrels are found in Killiney Hill Park, St. Anne’s Park in Raheny and on Howth Head. As far as I can remember there was a cull of a Grey squirrels in the Phoenix Park and Reds introduced around 2008.

Jellybaby1 · 22-05-2014 07:12PM

So we shouldn't have been so excited then!

We saw one little guy up at Hellfire Club. Very pleased to have seen it though. Thanks for the info.

ford2600 · 18-10-2014 05:52PM

Out on mountain bike in Nire Valley today and saw red squirrel out at end of oak tree collecting acorns. No camera of course.

Nearly always see deer and hare on spin. Glad to see red squirrel is still in these parts. Regularly see them in Knockmealdowns also.

dogmatix · 07-04-2015 07:02AM

Spotted a beautiful red squirrel sprinting across the road just after 7am on my way into work today. Location was between between the river dodder bridge and bohernabreena.

magicbastarder · 07-04-2015 07:55AM

Madeline Shallow Widow wrote: »

As far as I can remember there was a cull of a Grey squirrels in the Phoenix Park and Reds introduced around 2008.

they were still culling them in 2012, anyway; we came across a young grey in the park in september 2012, which started following us, and we happened on some OPW workers. they arranged for a colleague to come down and take it away for a gentle talking to.

Indricotherium · 07-04-2015 08:12AM

was in the south of France last week, 30 kms or so south of Biarritz.

The countryside there is nothing but reds.

Jayzesake · 07-04-2015 08:22AM

Jellybaby1 wrote: »

First time in 'Nature' forum. Had to post because a few weeks ago we saw a red squirrel, in Dublin. We thought the east of the country was controlled by the greys. We would be glad if someone could enlighten us.

The greys appear to be loosing ground due to predation by a resurgent Pine Marten population.

The greys are heavier than the reds so are apparently unable to run out to the tips of slender branches to escape martens the way the reds can. The greys also spend much more time foraging on the ground, again making them vulnerable.

That, afaik, is the theory anyway, and the jury is still out on the exact dynamics of the phenomenon (I've heard some say a pathogen may be involved). What does seem clear though is that where Pine Marten numbers increase, Grey Squirrels decrease and than disappear, generally followed by colonisation by reds.

It's an interesting demonstration of how the more intact an ecosystem is (in this case containing Pine Martens, a native species which were almost wiped out here) the more resilient it is in the face of invasive exotic species (such as the Grey Squirrel, which was introduced from America).

magicbastarder · 07-04-2015 08:32AM

there is also an argument to be made that the pine martens may be stressing the greys - preventing them from foraging on the ground - so reducing weight and reproductive viability.
it also puts the lack of success in the greys establishing west of the shannon into perspective - it may be more than just the shannon being a physical barrier, but also that it's in the west where pine marten numbers had been higher.

Jellybaby1 · 07-04-2015 08:32AM

Are the reds safe from the Pine Martens? We find on our park walks the greys are not afraid of humans and trot up to us waiting for food.

magicbastarder · 07-04-2015 08:39AM

the reds do not spend nearly as much time on the ground as the greys, and are lighter and can get higher into the trees (probably onto smaller branches than can sustain the weight of the pine marten); so they do not suffer in the same way as the greys.

Jayzesake · 07-04-2015 09:18AM

Jellybaby1 wrote: »

Are the reds safe from the Pine Martens? We find on our park walks the greys are not afraid of humans and trot up to us waiting for food.

A limited amount of predation of reds by Pine Martins probably does occur. That shouldn't be seen as a bad thing, but rather as a part of the natural scheme of things, in the same way that predators hunt prey in every ecosystem the world over.

Half-cocked · 07-04-2015 09:22AM

Another interesting slant on this Squirrel/Pine Marten thing was explained to me by a Swedish conservationist: When Fox numbers are high in an area, the Martens spend more time hunting up in trees and less time on the ground. This then impacts on the amount of Red Squirrel predation by Martens.

magicbastarder · 07-04-2015 10:16AM

magicbastarder wrote: »

the reds do not spend nearly as much time on the ground as the greys, and are lighter and can get higher into the trees (probably onto smaller branches than can't sustain the weight of the pine marten); so they do not suffer in the same way as the greys.

whoops - spotted by someone more eagle eyed than me!

Jayzesake · 07-04-2015 10:41AM

Indricotherium wrote: »

was in the south of France last week, 30 kms or so south of Biarritz.

The countryside there is nothing but reds.

Someone released four Grey Squirrels near Turin in Italy in 1948, when there were no Grey Squirrels anywhere in continental Europe.

In the 1990s a programme was drawn up to eradicate the resulting population before it had a chance to spread further, but animal rights groups brought the National Wildlife Institute to court to prevent that happening, and the programme was suspended. Following a 3-year court case the NWI was vindicated, but by that time the greys had spread so far that eradication was no longer considered a practical option.

Red Squirrels are now almost extinct in Piedmont, and things are looking dark for the rest of the red population in the entire Italian peninsula, and ultimately throughout Europe. Perhaps lessons can be drawn from the Irish experience or elsewhere that might help the situation, but it's an example of the kind of ecological disasters that can result from wooly thinking in such cases.

http://www.google.it/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CCcQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.researchgate.net%2Fprofile%2FPiero_Genovesi%2Fpublication%2F222567664_Spread_and_attempted_eradication_of_the_grey_squirrel_%2528Sciurus_carolinensis%2529_in_Italy_and_consequences_for_the_red_squirrel_%2528Sciurus_vulgaris%2529_in_Eurasia%2Flinks%2F0fcfd50b005e7cc9f7000000.pdf&ei=ELEjVaOWIMqrUa_pgvAI&usg=AFQjCNEY0AW5qzBjjmSaD9CuXBUukOPRtw

http://www.rossoscoiattolo.eu/en/news/red-squirrel-extinction-piedmont-red-alert-entire-italy

Red Squirrels

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