Ulster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread.

thomond2006 · 31-03-2015 02:56PM

awec wrote: »

Why not?

I'm all for big money marquee signings over numerous middling signings but this is a mad amount of money for a young, albeit seriously talented, player.

That is, unless Ulster have a sponsor behind-the-scenes who are part funding it a la Sexton.

I hope it happens though. The Pro12 needs as many big name signings as possible and they aren't coming from the other countries.

irishbucsfan · 31-03-2015 02:56PM

At the moment Ulster will have a lot more to play with financially than the southern 3 provinces, thanks to the strength of the sterling. The same goes for the Premiership clubs.

Buer · 31-03-2015 02:59PM

awec wrote: »

Why not?

The players who make more than that money are Carter, Giteau and Halfpenny.

All of them are hugely successful, established and decorated international players. All IRB award nominees and goalkickers. RWC winner, Lions series winner, huge number of international caps.

Piutau doesn't sit in that group at all. He has one start ever in the RC. His only test tries came against USA and Japan. Something really doesn't add up. As I said earlier, he'll be on a bit more than Habana if that money is real.

awec · 31-03-2015 03:00PM

Buer wrote: »

It's not that I don't think they've the cash available. They had some serious players on the books before when the likes of Afoa, Pienaar, Payne and Muller were all there at the same time.

It's more the idea that they're willing to pay that cash for a guy who doesn't have too high a profile. Are you lot letting Peter Ridsdale do your negotiating?!

The guy is a current All Black. Usually NIQs are guys looking final paychecks and guys who are in the twilight of their international career (or their international career is bit part).

I guess to get current ABs to leave NZ you need to make it really worth their while.

irishbucsfan · 31-03-2015 03:05PM

Buer wrote: »

It's not that I don't think they've the cash available. They had some serious players on the books before when the likes of Afoa, Pienaar, Payne and Muller were all there at the same time; that obviously took a lot of money.

It's more the idea that they're willing to pay that cash for a guy who doesn't have too high a profile. Are you lot letting Peter Ridsdale do your negotiating?!

It's about £500k sterling. That's the market rate these days for an All Black international.

It's 700k euro now, but a couple of years ago that would have been 600k, still a lot, but it's the current state of the euro-sterling exchange rate that is putting it on the level of Sexton.

Buer · 31-03-2015 03:13PM

awec wrote: »

The guy is a current All Black. Usually NIQs are guys looking final paychecks and guys who are in the twilight of their international career (or their international career is bit part).

I guess to get current ABs to leave NZ you need to make it really worth their while.

When I said the guys who made more than that....I should have clarified...they're the only guys who make more than that. He would be the 4th highest paid player in the world if that contract was signed today.

If you go through all the other superstars at Toulon, Toulouse, Racing, SF etc. they make less and some significantly so. Sexton, Hayman, Lobbe, Mitchell, Habana, Tialata, Guildford, Steyn, Ioane, Kruger....the oldest one there (Tialata, a prop) was 31 when he moved to Toulouse. Most were in their twenties.

He's a current All Black in so far as he's in their squad. He's not a starter for them. He is way outside the profile of the massive earner. I think he's a great player and I'd have him at Leinster in a hearbeat but I just can't make head nor tails of that salary.

awec · 31-03-2015 03:22PM

Pienaar is on at least £400k p/a with Ulster, which is about 550k euro at the moment. The likes of Afoa was on similar.

I don't think this is a huge jump really?

Buer · 31-03-2015 03:33PM

awec wrote: »

Pienaar is on at least £400k p/a with Ulster, which is about 550k euro at the moment. The likes of Afoa was on similar.

I don't think this is a huge jump really?

Pienaar does have that profile. Multi-capped Springbok with starts at 15, 10 and 9. Starting outhalf in a Lions test series, RWC winner, test goalkicker (not a top level one though). He came with a serious CV that is in line with that salary.

I don't think Afoa was on that much. I recall it being widely stated that he was on less money than Botha was getting at Munster.

mfceiling · 31-03-2015 03:50PM

I think the big question needs to be answered here. If ulster can afford the 700k figure that is being quoted, then how much is Mike McComish worth??

bilston · 31-03-2015 03:54PM

Ulster have the cash though. They must have cut their wage bill significantly in the last 12 months when you conisder the INS and OUTS. They have considerably more ST holders than in previous years and like everyone else are benefitting from an increase in TV money, oh and they sold the naming rights to Ravenhill. So as awec says the money isn't a problem. We also don't really know the figures involved anyway.

The next point is that Puitua will arrive here in July 2016. By that stage Ludik will have left and Bowe and Trimble will be 15 months closer to the lush green grazing grass. Payne is now clearly seen as a 13 so our back three options will be an ageing Bowe and Trimble, Gilroy and some young bucks like Scholes and Stockdale (who hinself may be a centre, we don't know yet) as well as Puitua. I don't think that is too unusual to be honest.

Yes we need a back rower, the rumours are we are getting one and maybe two, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't be looking for quality elsewhere.

One position where we desperately need to make a signing for is back up out half.

awec · 31-03-2015 03:55PM

Buer wrote: »

Pienaar does have that profile. Multi-capped Springbok with starts at 15, 10 and 9. Starting outhalf in a Lions test series, RWC winner, test goalkicker (not a top level one though). He came with a serious CV that is in line with that salary.

I don't think Afoa was on that much. I recall it being widely stated that he was on less money than Botha was getting at Munster.

This guy is 23 though. Chances are if he stayed in NZ he'd be called into every AB squad and would get quite a lot of appearances.

We aren't paying him (if true) for his CV but rather compensating him for taking the risk of basically postponing his international careeer.

Brewster · 31-03-2015 04:07PM

awec wrote: »

This guy is 23 though. Chances are if he stayed in NZ he'd be called into every AB squad and would get quite a lot of appearances.

We aren't paying him (if true) for his CV but rather compensating him for taking the risk of basically postponing his international careeer.

Yes, just heard the news. The guy would be upping sticks at a young age as opposed to a guy on the wind down. You can't compare the two situations. Charles will be so hungry to make an impression so that he doesn't fall off NZ radar, could be an inspired signing, all beit for two years which will pass very quickly. The long and short of it is that he is one of the best young players in NZ and would be a major major statement for Ulster. Can't do any of the Irish lads that remain there any harm either.

irishbucsfan · 31-03-2015 04:11PM

To be honest his salary is worth an extra 5% at least to just hear Mark Robson and the boys attempting to pronounce his name properly.

Tox56 · 31-03-2015 04:15PM

bilston wrote: »

.

The next point is that Puitua will arrive here in July 2016. By that stage Ludik will have left and Bowe and Trimble will be 15 months closer to the lush green grazing grass. Payne is now clearly seen as a 13 so our back three options will be an ageing Bowe and Trimble, Gilroy and some young bucks like Scholes and Stockdale (who hinself may be a centre, we don't know yet) as well as Puitua. I don't think that is too unusual to be honest.

That is an impressively thorough butchering

31-03-2015 04:16PM

mfceiling wrote: »

I think the big question needs to be answered here. If ulster can afford the 700k figure that is being quoted, then how much is Mike McComish worth??

£2.3m

stephen_n · 31-03-2015 05:26PM

Of all the positions that Ulster need to bring in a marque signing for, I would have thought a utility back is the one thing Ulster really don't need.

awec · 31-03-2015 05:27PM

It's 2016 people!

*After* our current utility back's contract has expired (Ludik).

When you have someone like Charles Piutau on the phone begging to join you, citing that he's really fond of nordyness and loves a pastie supper what exactly are you to do but say yes? Do you really want to deny someone like that their childhood dream of pulling on the famous white shirt over a few quid? I think not!

CatFromHue · 31-03-2015 05:36PM

I dunno, sounds like this isn't a done deal just yet

It is understood Piutau's contract with Ulster starts in 2016 and the Blues still hope he will be available for next year's Super Rugby campaign.

That will, however, require agreement from NZ Rugby, as he will not be available for All Blacks selection.

I think he's out of contract with the Blues at the end of this season too

Former New Zealand Under-20 stars Steven Luatua, Francis Saili and Charles Piutau have each extended their contract with the Blues, committing to the Super Rugby franchise until the end of 2015.

so who is he going to play for next season?

awec · 31-03-2015 05:38PM

The Blues need NZRU approval to play him in the Super Rugby is what I read that as. Have I misinterpreted that bit?

CatFromHue · 31-03-2015 05:40PM

I think so but also I'm not sure if he has a contract with the Blues for next season so if the NZ union say he can't be picked as he's leaving it gets very tricky.

sydthebeat · 31-03-2015 05:45PM

not sure anyone would want to play for the blues these days

mfceiling · 31-03-2015 05:45PM

bilston wrote: »

One position where we desperately need to make a signing for is back up out half.

Niall O'Connor - case closed

Deleted User wrote: »

£2.3m

Minimum...

awec · 31-03-2015 05:47PM

CatFromHue wrote: »

I think so but also I'm not sure if he has a contract with the Blues for next season so if the NZ union say he can't be picked as he's leaving it gets very tricky.

Could play ITM cup for Auckland or something I guess.

bilston · 31-03-2015 05:53PM

Tox56 wrote: »

That is an impressively thorough butchering

Haha. I thought as much. I'm going to take a leaf out of Brewster's book and stick to Charles for a while!

bilston · 31-03-2015 05:57PM

CatFromHue wrote: »

I dunno, sounds like this isn't a done deal just yet

I don't think anyone will think it's a done deal until Ulster confirm it, but they certainly haven't denied it either.

CatFromHue · 31-03-2015 05:57PM

awec wrote: »

Could play ITM cup for Auckland or something I guess.

This is where it gets tricky as the ITM ends at the end of October and if he's contracted to the Blues he's more than likely also contracted to an ITM team.

If the NZ union don't sign him up for a year next season then Ulster will have to bring him in early as I can't see any clubs wanting him for 7 months.

He could also end up going to the RWC too.

stephen_n · 31-03-2015 08:28PM

awec wrote: »

It's 2016 people!

*After* our current utility back's contract has expired (Ludik).

When you have someone like Charles Piutau on the phone begging to join you, citing that he's really fond of nordyness and loves a pastie supper what exactly are you to do but say yes? Do you really want to deny someone like that their childhood dream of pulling on the famous white shirt over a few quid? I think not!

Yes but considering how threadbare your pack is, is it not a poor use of resources, you have backs coming out your ar$e up there!

awec · 31-03-2015 08:33PM

stephen_n wrote: »

Yes but considering how threadbare your pack is, is it not a poor use of resources, you have backs coming out your ar$e up there!

Yea but once we sign Kieran Read and Richie McCaw I don't see any issue.

Cookiemunster · 31-03-2015 09:40PM

bilston wrote: »

I don't think anyone will think it's a done deal until Ulster confirm it, but they certainly haven't denied it either.

Munster have never denied signing Saili, 6 weeks after every paper in the country said the signing was to be announced within 24hrs.

mfceiling · 31-03-2015 11:01PM

awec wrote: »

Yea but once we sign Kieran Read and Richie McCaw I don't see any issue.

That's never going to happen.

Coetzee and Etzebeth however...

Ulster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread.

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