Dublin Bus - can anyone be happy with the price and service?

I'm not going back over this thread in detail but certain posters display an extraordinarily naïve view of the environment in which the public transport companies have had to operate. I'm certainly not going to suggest that Dublin Bus need to improve their service delivery - they do, but it certainly is not as black and white as some people think.

The amount of political interference over the years has been massive, and it is only in recent times (mainly since the establishment of the NTA) that we are seeing the start of a transformation of our public transport networks into something that is a customer focussed service.

I do have to point out to some of you who cravenly believe that Dublin Bus has no initiative the following:

- They attempted to establish a flat fare at the time of the Punt/Euro changeover, but this was shot down by the Department of Transport

- Brand new buses were purchased for use on route 746 (Dun Laoghaire-Airport) to operate 24 hours a day as a test case, funded specifically by the Department of Transport, only for the licensing section of the same Department to refuse permission to operate the 24 hour service at the very last minute (two days before it was due to start).

- On numerous occasions over the last 25-30 years Dublin Bus were refused permission to remove duplicate and unused services at the whim of politicians - examples were the 48a (post-LUAS introduction - Tom Kitt vowed that he would not allow it to be cut), the 51a and 172 (both kept on carrying thin air at the insistence of Bertie Ahern). That's just two examples.

- Dublin Bus rolled out RTPI on the Lucan and Ballyfermot routes in the 1990s as a trial, well before the current scheme. The Department of Transport refused to sanction any funding for it's subsequent rollout across the entire network. It was not until the mid-2000s that they then finally approved it, and Dublin Bus set the system up, with the NTA taking over responsibility for the on-street displays.

These are just a few examples of the nonsense that has prevailed over the years.

I think that at the same time people need to realise that there has been in recent years and continues to be a funding issue. There are gradual moves towards simplifying the fare structure on LEAP, but this is being done over several years to avoid a "shock" to the company's finances. For extra services to be provided, there is going to have to be additional funding - we've only got to the point where they have stopped cutting state funding.

The landscape has now changed and the NTA are now responsible for dictating service levels and network design, and not Dublin Bus. Therefore it is up to the NTA to decide whether additional services (such as 24 hour operations) are required, and to then provide funding for their operation. I've yet to see any indication that the authorities are prepared to do this. But this is now an NTA decision, not one for Dublin Bus.

As I understand it, the NTA are taking over the responsibility for on-street information and bus stop design, but this is in the process of being transferred and we are unfortunately in an interim position with regard to this. They have already published a handbook on how information is to be designed in the future, and this includes maps at each stop.

Network Direct produced a more efficient bus service, in terms of removing significant amounts of excess capacity and unnecessary routes across the network, introducing clockface timetables and regular interval departures, straightening out the core bus routes on each QBC whilst retaining local community services at lower frequencies.

There is now a need for a Network Direct V2 to deliver:
- Integrated corridor timetables (this is relevant outside of peak hours) to deliver a consistent service all along each route in both directions, with full route timetables (including timed intermediate points so that buses do not end up bunching together)
- A side benefit from this would be that an integrated network would start to develop as if buses have intermediate times along the route, connections could be planned by users
- Through full route timetables, people would be aware of when buses are due to arrive at a particular stop. This is particularly relevant where there is a driver change en route, as people often think a new driver is late, when the bus is actually early
- Re-introduction of Xpresso routes at peak times from outlying areas to deliver rapid service to/from the city on key corridors
- Increased service levels where needed to respond to additional demand
- New orbital routes to improve connectivity
- Mandatory on-board announcements should be made via the PA system where there a service has to wait at a particular stop - there is an entire suite of announcements within the computerised PA system that are there to facilitate this. It is not good enough for passengers to be left in the dark

The centre door situation is farcical, but unfortunately there is a labour court ruling in place in terms of giving the individual driver the final say on their operation, and that isn't going to change. There are massive inconsistencies across the city in terms of the design of bus stops and the relevant road markings. While many stops do have sufficient space, there are a significant number of cases where there are obstacles such as bike racks, bins, railings and trees that would be in line with the centre doors were the bus to stop with the front door aligned with the stop.

In my own view, we need to get to a point where bus stop design is consistent and provides sufficient space for buses to pull in, straighten up, stop (with front door aligned to bus stop), and to pull out.

To deliver that, the NTA is going to have to fund a proper audit of all the stops on a route-by-route basis to produce consistent designs that facilitates multi-door operation. Until that happens, the labour court ruling is going to provide an exemption clause. Such an audit could also provide for the removal of unnecessary stops and relocation of existing ones to provide a better spacing of stops.

These are just a few examples of what is needed to happen.

But anyone who tries to perpetuate this idea that Dublin Bus are to blame for everything is not living in the real world. For sure there are things that they can and need to improve upon, but delivering a quality bus service in Dublin requires the full support and input from the NTA, Local Authorities, the Government and the Garda Síochána. The local authorities at times have shown a flagrant disregard for this, with DCC for example refusing permission for bus shelters in the city centre because they would not get the advertising revenues, locating a bus stop on O'Connell Bridge to facilitate a minute bike lane on O'Connell Street, and retaining parking spaces in the city centre at the expense of providing space for bus stops.

There needs to be a joined up approach with the NTA taking the lead - that is beginning to happen but it is (like so much else in the public sector) a frustratingly slow process.

Incidentally, the Berlin tri-axle double decks referred to above, with three sets of doors are exactly the vehicles that the NTA should be purchasing for the BRT. Instead they are insisting on articulated single decks for long routes which they are just not suitable for. As their own analysis shows, people will be standing from Swords, where they currently get a seat - is that an improvement in service quality?

dfx- wrote: »

a Sunday service on St Patrick's Day and full service on Good Friday...

Good Friday should have an augmented Saturday schedule, like at the Christmas period.

There are sufficient people for whom it is a normal working day to warrant a Saturday service, but the full service is overkill.

Bambi wrote: »

It was a cost saving measure, nothing more. All it did was try to introduce end to end fixed corridors akin to rail services that there was no demand for and don't work. But this is all the NTA's fault no doubt

I have no problem with the NTA ensuring that dublin bus dont get to increase their monopoly on transport by denying them control of new infrastructure and services. Dublin bus have a ridiculous advantage over any other company entering the market due to the amount of infrastructure they government have gifted them over the decades

For sure Network Direct did involve cost cutting, but some if not most was long overdue. To suggest that was all that was involved is seriously understating the project.

If you are trying to tell me that eliminating:
- unnecessary over-capacity in the network;
- a serious amount of unnecessary duplication of routes; and
- a lack of co-ordination of schedules along corridors such as the Lucan Road and Howth Road,

was not a good idea then frankly you have your head in the sand.

Similarly, Network Direct introduced:
- Regular interval departures
- Clockface schedules
- Integrated timetables on certain corridors between routes that previously operated at random intervals leading to significant service gaps
- More direct core routes on each QBC

If you don't think that these were positive developments, then there's not much hope, given that they are fundamental principles of good bus schedule design.

I will disagree with you - the cross-city routes have opened up far more potential journeys and are worth the effort. What may be wrong is the way the schedules were designed in terms of running times (time allowed to get from one end to the other). I'm sure that the large numbers of people that I see on the 14 or 15 from Rathmines going to points beyond Amiens Street for example wouldn't agree with you either, nor the large numbers using the 40 from Dame Street heading north. No one expects people to go end to end, but they will make plenty of intermediate journeys and that is the whole point.

It is true to say that there was a lot to be desired in some of the implementation, with timetables that were impossible to operate being implemented. This was undoubtedly Dublin Bus' own fault. These resulted in serious gaps in service on certain routes, due to buses being late, or short workings, until the schedules were redesigned and this took far too long to do. I have criticised Dublin Bus for this many times here. It was unacceptable, and they should have admitted the problem.

But the core principle of the project was right, and I would fundamentally disagree with your view that it was simply about cost-cutting.

It now needs refining and to be developed further, with more corridor integrated schedules being introduced.

thomasj wrote: »

I have to say that while network direct has given the people of blanchardstown more choice which is great, the service level of the 39 and 39a have become quiet atrocious at times.

For example, look at this evening, i have attached a screenshot of rtpi showing buses due at Aston quay as of 10 or so minutes ago. While you may say oh its St Patrick's day and there's luas works going on its become quiet the norm to see long gaps in service particularly I'm evenings and at weekends and to see 39 and 39a come together.

For reference, the 39 on Sundays would have run every 15 minutes on a Sunday pre network direct and when you look at the 39 and 39a timetables for a Sunday evening there is a combined service pattern of 4 per hour. So no difference. The problem is though, they come together too often resulting in long gaps, if spaced out more yoid have a better timetable.

Was network direct a good thing for blanchardstown? Without a shadow of doubt! 39a was long overdue and wouldn't change that, but they need to fix things like this to give a proper balanced timetable

That's exactly why I think that Network Direct V2 is needed - a more focussed effort on co-ordinating schedules. This was something that DB had never really done before Network Direct, and they did try - on the Navan Road the 37 and 39 are integrated leaving Burlington Road, but they really ought to be integrating the 39 and 39a.

Bear in mind that there was no AVLC when they did this, so it was very much based on estimates. Now they have tons of raw data and integrating schedules should be easier to do.

Although with the 39 and 39a taking different length routes to the Blanchardstown Centre from town, you might inevitably end up with the issue of them both reaching the Centre simultaneously having left Baggot Street 15 minutes apart and then following each other to Ongar.

steddyeddy wrote: »

Yea it actually was. It's a day called St.Patrick's day you see. The national holiday of Ireland and a world famous celebration. Do you think demand today would be less than a Saturday. Also are you aware of the meaning of the phrase"public service". It's not a capitalistic venture.

I'm not disputing that fact, but tomorrow is a normal working day.

I don't think you're getting the point - there was a Nitelink last night, but the regulatory authorities have shown no appetite or providing Nitelinks on any bank holiday.

It's a rather subtle hint to go home earlier so people will be in work the next day.